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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

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White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

425 replies

Sugarintheplum · 17/12/2020 23:00

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

OP posts:
Veterinari · 22/12/2020 15:00

[quote samosamo]@Veterinari

You are completely out of order in my opinion.

You come onto the board, not to simply answer the question, but to critique the OPs question. How dare you?

She then unequivocally shows you that she did not centre white women, and rather than apologise for the accusation, you say 'fair enough' and then continue to pile in? Next time read carefully. You can't have a proper conversation if you don't listen.

It's disgraceful behaviour.

You also accuse the OP of somehow making white women who do not frequent the board to be drawn to the board, simply because she asked a question that she was interested in on Black MN, her being a self-identified black woman. So her question was not to your liking? Incorrigible.

It's also myopic. Think about it, if OP had posted on general mumsnet 'what would make white women post on Black MN?' they would respond 'we're not!". It's not the population she was musing about. It made perfect sense to post on Black MN as the white women she was wondering about WERE THERE! Op did not place the topic in Active.

She was right about punching down. I've just done it with you and it doesn't feel good at all. But unfortunately necessary.

Feel free to get off our board, as you have derailed with your nit picking. You give the non-black women who have posted constructively here a bad rep. Go criticise black women elsewhere before we report you for not respecting the spirit of this place.[/quote]
I had left the thread as I didn't want to derail it as I think it's valuable. But as you've turned this into a personal attack, I feel like I ought to respond

You come onto the board, not to simply answer the question, but to critique the OPs question. How dare you?

Where exactly did I critique the OP’s question? This is a discussion forum, she’s perfectly entitled to ask whatever question she likes. Other people are perfectly entitled to respond. As long as it’s within the talk guidelines, that’s how the site works. Or are you equating a question with a criticism? The two are not equivalent.

She then unequivocally shows you that she did not centre white women, and rather than apologise for the accusation, you say 'fair enough' and then continue to pile in? Next time read carefully. You can't have a proper conversation if you don't listen.

Ok centring nay not have been the right word so sorry if that’s triggered your rather unnecessary rage, but the OP certainly asked ‘if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?’
Which indicates she’s seeking responses from non-black women. She answered my question and clarified this to me and I responded with ‘fair enough’ as it made sense. Again, you seem to confusing questioning with attacking.

It’s also worth noting that neither the OP nor myself assumed that non-black is equivalent to white. We both recognise it isn’t. You however seem to have substituted white for non-black in your post. It’s worth remembering that the two aren’t the same.

You also accuse the OP of somehow making white women who do not frequent the board to be drawn to the board, simply because she asked a question that she was interested in on Black MN, her being a self-identified black woman. So her question was not to your liking?

I’ve not commented on her actual question in any way, so no idea why you’ve assumed that it's not to my liking Confused I actually think it’s a perfectly reasonable question. My so-called ‘accusation’ was based on my own direct experience of being a non-black poster drawn to the board by the OP’s post, and from reading the thread and seeing similar reported experiences. So by stating that non-black posters are being drawn to the board I’m simply reporting my own lived experience. That is neither false, an accusation nor incorrigible.

Incorrigible.

I’m not sure that incorrigible means what you think it means - it simply means unchanging.

It's also myopic. Think about it, if OP had posted on general mumsnet 'what would make white women post on Black MN?' they would respond 'we're not!". It's not the population she was musing about. It made perfect sense to post on Black MN as the white women she was wondering about WERE THERE! Op did not place the topic in Active.

Yep fair enough. She could also ask for the board to be hidden from active if it becomes a problem. Or am I not allowed to make helpful suggestions?

She was right about punching down. I've just done it with you and it doesn't feel good at all. But unfortunately necessary.

Your choices and behaviour are under your control, not mine. You chose to attack me, make accusations and call me names. Based mostly I think on entirely misunderstanding my questions and intentions. Your choice.

Feel free to get off our board, as you have derailed with your nit picking. You give the non-black women who have posted constructively here a bad rep.

I had actually already left - you brought me back by tagging me in a post so that you could call me names. At the risk of being incorrigible I’d suggest that tagging someone in a post probably doesn’t achieve your objective of discouraging them from posting.

Go criticise black women elsewhere before we report you for not respecting the spirit of this place.

I haven’t actually criticised anyone on this thread, I asked some questions and the OP was kind enough to take time to answer. You’re the one throwing around personal insults and criticism. Feel free to report me if you feel that I’ve broken the talk guidelines, but you might actually want to read them first.

Lndnmummy · 22/12/2020 15:39

[quote Starseeking]**@Russellbrandshair* "Whilst I'm more than happy to allow black women a safe space to discuss m..."*
*
WTAF? You"allow" black women a safe space, on their own board?!?!?*

@Lndnmummy This is unconscious bias at play. The poster will be along to explain "they didn't mean it like that, you've misunderstood, you've misrepresented" etc etc. And this is from a person who says they are raising Black DC!

Black people experience this Every. Single. Day.

I'm glad it wasn't just me who noticed this phraseology, and that white people see it too.[/quote]
@Starseeking Words fail me. I dispair. My husband gets told on a regular basis that he is “well spoken”. It’s always said in the same way. Headtilt, condescending smile and with a illhidden tone of surprise. My sons too get the “white approval” in much the same demeaning way “he is so polite, isn’t he”. A) Yes he is and B) I don’t need or want YOUR seal of approval. It means nothing to me. Idiots

Diva66 · 22/12/2020 15:45

Can you imagine the outcry if someone started a forum called White Mumsnetters?

I don’t have the answer, sorry.

formerbabe · 22/12/2020 15:50

Can you imagine the outcry if someone started a forum called White Mumsnetters?

Oh dear God, do you also complain that there's no white history month? Perhaps look at the wider context to get your answer.

GreyWall · 22/12/2020 15:55

@Sugarintheplum because I don't believe we're different. We're all MN so free to contribute to whatever thread we want?

Quaagars · 22/12/2020 16:02

Can you imagine the outcry if someone started a forum called White Mumsnetters?

Yeah, because that's totally the same Hmm

not

DayBath · 22/12/2020 16:09

@TellItToTheStars

There are a few "guard dogs" on here trying to kick non-white folks off the thread. As a black woman, i strongly disagree with this approach. Yes we have our unique issues and i'm happy for all to be aware of what they are. Black folks can be just as predujiced as any other race and the OP has shown that by starting this thread
Amen to this!
IamthatIam · 22/12/2020 16:11

Dear oh dear oh dear. Self loathing, internalised racism and racism all on show on this thread.

What a shower!!!!

Dastardlythefriendlymutt · 22/12/2020 16:21

It's also worth noting the phrase "guard dogs" has racial connotations when speaking about black women. Yes and before you argue it was said by a black woman -- that doesn't matter - it's still racist no different from when women participate in misogynoir and use misogynistic language.

How embarrassing to be quoting it in support. I despair. Leaving thread how as I can tell the disingenuous crowd of "BMN is segregation and so racist" is on their way with their really stupid statements (no can't and won't sugarcoat it) that they think are so unique and profound and we must all stop and listen.

TragedyHands · 22/12/2020 16:59

I was going to comment on a thread the other day about kids experiencing racism, but we aren't black.

june2007 · 22/12/2020 20:57

Black mum with mixed race kids whats books that represent a mixed race family...This is aprroved of.
White mum wit mixed race kids wants the same so come on here to ask told to go and google them. Or some will tell her but it,s not their job to educate right???? This is the gist I have from some of the posters.

Starseeking · 22/12/2020 21:49

Having mixed race DC doesn't make a white woman Black. That shouldn't be difficult for anyone to understand @june2007.

Dastardlythefriendlymutt · 22/12/2020 22:34

Proximity to blackness in the way of having a black spouse, children, friends relatives etc does not immunise non-black people from having attitudes that are rooted in racism or doing racist things or give them an automatic pass into black spaces.

Just like a man having a wife or daughters doesn't grant him access into women only spaces. Not that difficult to understand.

june2007 · 23/12/2020 00:13

Well we don,t have white only spaces. because that would be racist and encourage segragation. (Unless you want to perhaps join the BNP which I don,t.)

Dastardlythefriendlymutt · 23/12/2020 00:29

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

It's also worth noting the phrase "guard dogs" has racial connotations when speaking about black women. Yes and before you argue it was said by a black woman -- that doesn't matter - it's still racist no different from when women participate in misogynoir and use misogynistic language.

How embarrassing to be quoting it in support. I despair. Leaving thread how as I can tell the disingenuous crowd of "BMN is segregation and so racist" is on their way with their really stupid statements (no can't and won't sugarcoat it) that they think are so unique and profound and we must all stop and listen.

Biscuit
IamthatIam · 23/12/2020 00:37

@june2007, as the default spaces are white spaces hence why others need a safe space and white folks don’t need specific spaces because it’s their privilege to already have the default spaces. Why would the group with power and privilege want a safe space? Safe from those who are suppressed? Where then shall the suppressed fine safety if they need permission and approval to have a safe space?

Systems, processes, institutions and norms are already safe spaces for white people.

Lucy830 · 23/12/2020 01:18

I tend to just look at active and click on interesting threads.

I clicked on one the other day that was interesting and was about to join in but then Noticed it was black mumsnetters. I then didn’t post my reply because I felt I was invading or something which is a little sad.

I think non black people probably just want to reply because they find the post interesting and it is not on other boards. I would never join in with topics that were related to an ethnicity I was not or subjects relating to that if I myself had no experience of this however.

santajingle · 23/12/2020 01:43

I would post because I have a some who's dad is black. He left. My son looks black but my family are extremely white, bordering racist. Old fashioned views and we know nothing about black history. As awful as it is I know nothing about what's talked about on here, so only have people like on here to ask for real advice and knowledge. In real life my son is being raised in a very white racist environment and I have no one to turn to 😢 I grew up with Rochelle Hulmes as the first young black girl I saw and she changed her hair to long straight and shiny, I didn't realise that wasn't natural. I honestly think white people would love an equal society but we need educating sadly.

samosamo · 23/12/2020 02:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 23/12/2020 02:06

Can you imagine the outcry if someone started a forum called White Mumsnetters?

Good grief, what a comparison to make!

I wonder whether a phrase like 'all posters welcome to comment' or similar where that is the case would be helpful, not sure how it would be worded but could be useful maybe to be sensitive to an OP's thread?

telephonebox · 23/12/2020 02:10

I've commented on posts without looking from 2009.

Quaagars · 23/12/2020 02:19

So glad I actually know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry I let V make me doubt myself
Never doubt yourself - that's the way it is with some on these type of threads, where bigoted views show themselves
They'll twist, or pick or turn your words around and have you doubting yourself.
Don't fall for it

Veterinari · 23/12/2020 06:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Veterinari · 23/12/2020 06:34

@samosamo

You also accuse the OP of somehow making white women who do not frequent the board to be drawn to the board, simply because she asked a question that she was interested in on Black MN, her being a self-identified black woman. So her question was not to your liking? Incorrigible.

I'm may have misunderstood - which part is 'depraved, bad behaviour, unable to be reformed'? The experience of myself and other posters who clicked through from Active? Or your faulty assumption that I somehow dislike the OP's question (no idea what that's actually based on as I can't see the connection with the previous statements).

Schehezarade · 23/12/2020 06:40

I don't think I've posted on this thread. As a white woman with no particular knowledge of black lives I don't think my views are of much interest here.
There are more than enough other places for me to post.