Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

You don't say how old your DF is, but mine did similar when DM died 12 years ago. He is still with the woman, but not married. He is in his eighties now and I don't think he even likes the woman, but has said he would rather put up with her than live on his own. She is a vile cow, but I live 500 miles away and so can't really expect him to live alone. I sort of get it.

2 years is a long time to be on your own, even in grief.

Thank you FeinsteinA He is early 70's.

If a woman is widowed in her late 60's nine times out of ten she will be alone thereafter but no one worries about her being lonely.

I don't think there's anything that's 'normal'.

I'm sorry or your loss. Losing your mum is a seismic event and it seems as though you don't feel your Dad is reacting to it appropriately. He certainly shouldn't be bad mouthing about your Mum. I can imagine his behaviour is compounding your grief. Can you chat with your DB? Anyone else you can share this with?

Unless there are other issues with your dad, maybe you could reach out to him to re-build your relationship? Could you send in a Father's Day card for example?

Try not to be angry at him. And try not to judge. I realise it's easy for me to say that though.

Anecdotally, my mum died when I was a baby. My DF was remarried within 2 years. Maybe he was filling a gap, maybe he was lonely, maybe he wanted a housekeeper. All I can say is that he and SM have been blissfully happy ever since. It was right for them.

I don't know what's normal for a widowed man. I get the impression that in the later life meat market a vaguely functional male is hot property. Let alone a socially adept person like my father.

I also don't know what's normal for the daughter. I want to be loyal to my mother. When I was raging I wanted to avenge her. But she was a dignified woman. She doesn't want her dirty linen aired in public.

My dad was suddenly widowed in his late 60s and was utterly floored by the death of my mother.

After a couple of years he 'befriended' a lovely widow at his golf club and they enjoyed dinner out, the cinema etc for quite a while before she also died (poor dad)

Seeing dad so heartbroken after mum died almost hurt more than losing my mum and I was always delighted he'd found some company again and made it clear as long as he was happy I was.

He lived another 30 years after mum died, missing her every day.

Without being unkind, your father is an adult and can do what he likes. My dad was widowed at 64 but never sought female company...he preferred to be alone.
Are you worried about his will?

Hi Gazelda I'm sorry you lost your mum so young. I realise that it was a great privildge to have a mum as long as I did. Maybe for you a loving step mum was the next best thing?

I should add that mum could be very difficult and in the middle part of her life she was really in a state. But later she was so great with my children, a lot of my sadness is about them not having a granny. My father likes the status symbol of grandchildren, but he's not particularly interested in them as young people.

I'm sorry for your loss OP. A friend and I were just talking about this the other day; anecdotally it does seem as though men (among our peers who have lost a parent) often get together with someone else pretty quickly, within the first couple of years of being widowed, while women often will wait far longer or not pair up with anyone else again. This is also true of people I know who've separated; the men seem to be in new relationships within a heartbeat. I think there are far more men who just can't cope with being alone, and are less particular about whether the relationship is really right.

I disagree that 2 years is a long time to be alone. Being single doesn't have to mean lonely, at whatever age. My dad died 2 years ago, he was the love of my mum's life and it feels like only yesterday that he was here (to all of us but especially to her). 2 years is nothing compared to 50 years of companionship. But a lot of people just can't handle being on their own.

dolphinsarentcommon I would be quite happy with dad having a girlfriend. It's the thought of some vulture woman moving into My Mother's House or my father being married to a woman other than my mother that makes me feel sick.

Maybe if I felt more confident that he'd loved my mother this wouldn't feel so hard. I can't face 20 years of him going on about how wonderful this new groupie is and comparing her to my mother. I'd rather break off contact.

I completely understand that, and I'm sure it's really upsetting. I was lucky in that there was no question of his 'friend' (his words) moving in, and I may have felt differently had there been.

Breaking contact seems a little harsh though, maybe just take a little step back and give it some more time? In my experience bereavement messes with so many thoughts and emotions, it's best not to make decisions about anything you don't have to.

Frogsonglue yes, there's a basic numeric advantage for older males.

And living alone is quiet, no matter how social you are. My brother and I have tried to keep him occupied. Perhaps if I'm honest I was trying to stave off the day that he 'leaves' my mother.

My mum died when my dad was 72 and he made it clear from literally the start he did not want to be on his own. I remember him saying to me one day when mum had been gone a few months "do you think of your mum" to which I replied, yes every day, millions of times. He said to me "I don't think of her every day but I do think of her" I mean.....WTF...... how can you be married to someone for 45 years and not think of them every day.

He found himself a partner probably a year or 2 after mum died, someone 11 years younger than him, the polar opposite of my mum and she was a complete cow who ended up ruining dads relationship with a lot of the family.

I was always very careful not to fall out with dad over this although he lived in Spain and although he did try and get us to like and accept his girlfriend it was easier to keep things nice as he lived so far away. He died 18 months ago now and I am so glad I didn't fall out with him. I lost respect for him because his gf was a twat who treated him (and us) like shit and he accepted that because he didn't want to be on his own. But, I loved him, he was my dad and I miss him. It's very common for widowers to move on pretty quickly, and it's also common their next partners are arseholes.....sad but true.

I think this is pretty typical actually. My mum died when I was a child and although my dad didn't meet anyone else, he was pretty useless on his own. I actually think a lot of men are. Women hold them together and are the drivers behind their social life and help them to function. I know lots of women whose husbands have died...the women have remained single and blossomed. They often don't want to meet another man as they don't want to spend more years doing a man's washing and making him dinner! Conversely, for men, having a woman in their life makes everything easier for them. A dad at my DC's school lost his wife...he was shacked up with another woman less than a year later. It's really common.

I'm sorry for your loss

dolphinsarentcommon My bro and I wrote to him (well my DB) saying: we can accept: woman your own age, with her own money and don't diss our mother.

I have taken a month off from him. Usually we see a lot of each other. I need to break my own dependency and escape for a while. He is a dominant personality. I need to know that if he is going to be a total d*ck then I don't have to put up with it.

He now says that he's feeling shunned and he doesn't know what he's done wrong. He knows fine well what's bothering me. But male entitlement means he can carry on however he wants and everyone else has to go along with it and play happy families.

I'm sorry for your loss. IME it is more common for a widower to look for a new relationship more quickly simply for the reason that the majority of men of that generation feel on some level that a woman is required to make a house a home and to give meaning and shape to life- and this includes everything from domestic chores to organising social things to buying presents to keeping in touch with family etc etc. I don't know whether that is accurate for your father?

I think women are better at being alone because they are used to doing all this stuff and, while they may of course feel terribly lonely, they don't feel at quite such a complete loss when it comes to carrying on with social and domestic life.

You've expressed the unfairness of it all and I can understand how upset you are. It's hard, I think, to separate out the grief one feels at the loss of a parent and the anger one might feel at the other parent finding someone new with what feels like unseemly haste. Have you spoken to your dad at all about it? Not suggesting that you tell him to stop but only that you're finding it a bit hard. Sometimes just saying it can make it feel a bit better.

OP I think a break is very wise. Some time to think and let things settle a bit.

Losing a parent is so so hard, and I'm sorry it's all got messy for you

Thanks dozycuntlaters. So this is the deal. I don't want to get into a cat fight with some vulture that got her claws into my dad. It seems easier just to keep distance. My brother lives abroad and it won't make a huge difference to him. I'm sure you are right to try and keep things civil. After a month of private rage I might be able to go the demure, accepting little woman direction.

It sound like he (and she) spent a lifetime being unhappy.

He's had it brought home to him that life is short and you only get one.

Kindly, none of this makes any difference to your mother and she'd probably want him to be happy and enjoy whatever he's got left, if she did.

I also think there is a big divide between you and your father in terms of what you've lost. You've lost your one and only mum. You'll never have another. Your dad lost his wife. Through the course of our lives, we can have many romantic partners. Spouses are replaceable. Mums aren't.

Comedycook sorry to whine about losing my mum in my 40's. Your loss is far, far worse. I hope you and your dad had a happy family.

Oh don't be sorry...you're allowed to be sad.

My dad actually died 12 years after my mum did...he really couldn't cope with being alone. I think women are far stronger than men in this respect.

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower we had big arguements over money....my dad was so obsessed with his "lovey dovey" that he legally gave her right of occupancy for this apartment. I had a long conversation with him about this and told him that he needed to think about what mum would have wanted. My mum was a wonderful wife and mother and she worked her arse off to give us all a good life, although I think once she died he saw the apartment etc as his. Thankfully not long before his death (2 months) he saw the light and changed his will back so she got nothing. It wasn't the money so to speak of, I told him he could wipe his arse with £50 notes but I didn't see why she should benefit from my mums hard work.

This is such a snap shot, I could rant on forever and I can feel my blood boiling when I think of it. But OP sorry to say I feel your pain but just make sure you don't do anything you will regret because one day he will be gone and it would be a shame for all the nice memories to be tainted. If that makes any sense.

Whereismybrain thank you, I think that's right. Maybe all I can do is to say how I feel. A few months after mum died we (me, dh, ds and dad) went for a walk with a widowed friend of his. This woman is perfectly fine. But She's Not My Mum and the whole thing felt very soon and mum's absence so acute.

My mum was far from perfect. Plenty of faults but I would have been quite happy to have her around for another five years even if she was cantankerous for most of it.

dozycuntlaters I was completely chilled about settling mum's estate. Fretting about her money seemed vulgar. But now with some new woman on the horizon I am desperate to get it finalised. My mum left her half of the house to her kids. Knowing that he would be straight out on the field the moment she was buried.

Yes the money is a sort of proxy for loyalties. As in: Whose team are you really on?

Thank you for all your lovely replies. It is a great help to chat with others who have been through this situation. I need to go now, but will come back later.🙏