Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

Thank you @peachgreen It's partly the fear of the unknown and wanting to be loyal to mum and my sadness for her. Although people who thought their parents had a rock soild marriage were clearly shocked when the old man couldn't wait to pair up with a new woman.

@TheFormidableMrsC loves her stepmum, but most others on here seem to be somewhere between eventual resignation and total relationship breakdown. Many adult children are clearly in a difficult situation with their widowed father and The New Woman.

The last few weeks I have been so angry that I had to avoid my father or that would probably have been the end of our relationship. I would see a counsellor and send him the bill but that would mean admitting weakness.

I do understand, but your mum isn't here any more, as awful as that is - your dad isn't being disloyal to her, and nor are you if you get to know this woman. She isn't your mum and she never will be, and you don't need to see her as any kind of replacement, nor should your dad.

What she is is your dad's partner, and that's okay - I can't see in your posts anywhere that she's actually done anything wrong, other than dating your dad (although huge apologies if I've missed something).

As an aside, for some people - perhaps even many people - two years is long enough. Nobody suggests that people should wait a certain length of time before dating after a break up - I'm not sure why widowhood is seen as this condition where you must remain in stasis for a certain amount of time before you're allowed to think about moving forward. It's strange. If I did date someone, it wouldn't change the way I feel about my late husband in the slightest. That won't change whether I wait three years or thirty years.

OP as I have said before, I am widowed I have a new partner. The fact that I have a partner diminishes nothing at all. Everything I do is for my kids. He’s my partner BECAUSE I know my late husband would approve, because he treats me like a Queen as my late husband did, because he’s lovely to my kids and because he accepts without question that we come with history. I absolutely adore him and I feel my husband approving

However, we will never marry, he will never share my money, he will never be left my childrens inheritance and that’s because I come as me, not my children and that’s all for them,

he offers me such company and he makes me smile. I like being in a couple, I like having a partner, I am good at it. I didn’t get divorced, I had my life ripped away and to want that again is by disrespectful, it’s living my life

Difficult isn't it? My FIL was widowed mid 60's after nursing MIL through cancer for almost 15 years. Within 2 years FIL had moved in a long time mutual friend, causing huge upset with my brother in law - DH was a little more understanding.

Brother in law felt it was far too soon.

Sorry about your husband @peachgreen I'm guessing you are still fairly young.

My father's family fancy themselves as a bit superior. My suburban mother was never good enough for the golden boy. They thought he'd married beneath himself. This woman is a member of the sort of county set they approve of. I can imagine my fathers family gloating that he's finally with the right sort of woman.

If I sound like I've lived the most miserable life, that's not right either. I have lots to be grateful for. This situation is just all my/my mum's insecurities at once.

@Housetreecar you sound at peace with your situation and have a clear plan. How do your children find it? I guess some definite boundaries make it easier.

@familyissues12345 my DH has a similar but different situation. When we visit FIL DH describes a terrible sadness and sense of nostalgia and absence. We always seem to have a nice time there, perfectly civilised and I could never understand the strength of his feelings. But I get it now.

I Think you need to back away. I'm closer to your father's age than yours - and quite frankly we are far more aware of how short and fragile life is than we were 30 yrs ago. If he is lonely and this woman provides much needed companionship in his final years then leave him be. It's none of your business. Your mother is dead, you father still has a life to live - do you want him to be lonely and miserable? why?

You sound like my SIL - when my FIL died after 40yrs of marriage (not always happy), my MIL was alone for 18 months and very lonely. She met a younger man (by only about 6yrs) who had also recently lost his long term partner and they became a couple. We teased her about her toy boy. My SIL refused to EVER meet him, he had to go stay elsewhere when she visited MIL. It was either that or she would cut off relations and MIL would not see her. I thought she was being a bitch, they weren't even living in the old family home but had moved to a retirement flat.

They were together for about 15yrs when, ironically, he died before her. They had their ups and downs but they were there for each other for things like hospital visits, appointments, going to the theatre / cinema ordinary day to day support. Will you provide all of that for your father?

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower I’m enormously lucky and I know how lucky I am. My children adore him and he has become good friends with my teens. They message each other and go out with him without me and they get on incredibly well with him. They don’t need parenting by him and he has no interest in parenting them.

My youngest really likes him too, they get on absolutely fine but he’s still not quite a teen and they don’t have much in common, partner doesn’t get involved in any parenting at all, he chats to him and has a laugh and child is very happy to be around him but they’re very comfortable in each other’s company and get on well l. I’m not looking for another father for them and partner has his own child to parent.

It's common for men to date quickly from my professional experience. Far quicker than women typically. Also perhaps they lived separate lives, but protected you

It's not just widower men that do this widowed women often do it too. when my aunts husband passed away after 50 years of marriage she was on a dating site within 6 weeks of his death. we were all shocked as she used to say her husband who she had been with since the age of 16 was the love of her life. It turned out she had such a fear of being on her own as she had never been on her own. that she just wanted to find someone to prevent her from being alone and lonely. it wasn't about her finding romance. she did meet some one but he too has now passed away and she's now alone again but is too old now to be bothered with dating again.

@dinglethedragon I have certainly backed away. Yes I can see that he will do whatever he chooses and it is none of my business.

It is refreshing to hear that sometimes women get together with younger men too, that it's not all just a one way street. But I know lots of older women on their own. They have to put up with being lonely, or join social activities and be involved with their grandchildren, if any.

My father is pretty busy. I dare say he gets lonely too. He could take an interest in his grandchildren, but doesn't.

If your MIL had the right to a new partner, did your SIL also have the right to not like the situation? At least they moved into a new place together. I absolutely hate the thought of another woman ensconced in my mother's house.

My DB thinks that overall a new partner is a good idea as it might prolong our father's lifespan. If he's mooning over this woman for the next 20 years I will have minimal contact with him anyway.

@Housetreecar it sounds like you two are quite evenly matched. That sort of set up would be my less awful option, but it is not up to me.

If I submit to this situation I would be betraying my mother. Lots of people telling me that it doesn't make any difference to her now, but I'm not convinced.

I feel for you @PeaceLillyWhiteFlower . I lost my Mum just over 20 years ago. My Dad was only 63 at the time and made it very clear that he wanted to meet someone else and my Mum had said he wanted to do that. He started dating within a year and advertised himself in papers. He met up with quite a lot of women but nothing got off the ground. He then met up with a woman to who he had been writing; she had placed an advert in a magazine. Even though it was difficult, I and my Sister were supportive of him trying to meet someone else. However, the woman he started seeing made it very clear early on that she didn't want to know his family and friends. We spent 15 years only seeing him occasionally, with some arguments and periods of not speaking. She was diagnosed with dementia in 2018, my Dad had been in denial and continued to be in denial after this. Fast forward to Summer 2020, things came to a head, there were some safeguarding issues and she went into a care home, initially just for respite, but we quickly realized that it was permanent. Since then he has spent time staying with me and my Sister and he lives in sheltered accommodation near my Sister.

The damage he did when he was with this woman and put her before his family cannot be repaired. My boys don't speak to him cause he wasn't there during their early years (they are now 12 and 14). This is despite my Dad having a massive health scare last year where he nearly died. It has also been very difficult for him to take up with old friends cause too much has happened. I will always do my best for my Dad, to me he is a shared responsibility, but in all honesty, I find his sense of expecting to be looked after, after the way that he treated us hard to take.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of men do struggle with being on their own and my Dad hates being on his own now, even at 83 he would love a lady friend. Sorry for the essay.

I'm not sure I can believe that your mother would want your father to spend the next 20 years alone, or that she'd want you to cut contact with him.

Before he died (when he was very sick and we thought he might die) my husband told me that if he did die, he wanted me to meet someone else, for my daughter to have a male role model in her life, and for us to build some kind of happiness and family life when he was gone. I didn't understand how he could be okay with that at first but as time has gone on I do - he loved me, of course he would want me to find love and happiness again, and of course he would want our daughter to be a part of that.

Like I said, I'm not dating yet and I'm not sure if or when I will, but I'm glad that in the face of such judgement from the world at large I'll at least know I have his blessing.

I think your feelings about how your father treated your mother when she was alive - which sound very justified - are very unfairly influencing your reaction to his current situation.

OP it sounds like you have a lot to work through and you should get some help to do it. Hanging on to this isn't going to change your father and will make you both miserable. It's highly unlikely that's what your mother would want.

peachgreen OP’s mother predicted this and left half the house to her DC, not her H, presumably because she didn’t want her H’s new partner/wife getting it/the money.

I think one of OP’s posts mentions that her Dad’s girlfriend is 20+ years younger than he is. That’s usually scenario where money is involved. Adding a further, darker dimension.

Forcing a sale would be a big move and one you’d best get legal advice on.

@Loopytiles this woman isn't that much younger, but certainly young enough to be my older sister and not my step mother.

Yes, my mother knew what would happen and wanted to protect her heirs. It is turning out that executing her will is more complicated than first appears. More stress.

@peachgreen and @Housetreecar a living will is clearly a good idea. I have said to my DH that he should find someone else if I die suddenly (NB he doesn't say 'yeah, you too' 🙃) I should probably have a chat with DD in case anything happened. I know that DS would, like me, find an alien invader unbearable. So it would be up to DD to smooth relations.

That is a really good idea @PeaceLillyWhiteFlower, and worth talking to your DS about it as well, potentially. I recommend all couples talk about it now - it's made my grief process much more manageable.

@Octopus37 I'm sorry to hear that. Not an essay at all, I'm really touched that so many people have shared their experiences. I have felt so alone and bottled up with it. It is hard not to get bogged down with regrets. Teenagers are so funny, I hope your joy outweighs the sadness about your dad.

To be fair it is me that has been avoiding the old man. He's such a dominant personality and the sun always shines out of his *rse. I don't want to be steamrollered into having to betray my mother for his benefit.

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower

This book might be useful. Be warned though, from both sides of the divide, you'll feel like punching the author. They are so sure they know all the answers! However, it's a comprehensive list of the issues other adult children faced, which might help you not be so alone with the feelings.

www.amazon.co.uk/When-Your-Parent-Remarries-Late-ebook/dp/B01N384NR9

About the ring - a brand new one, nothing like their Mother's. Spending family money, I'm guessing... Also, moving from being 'just another girlfriend' to more of a threat.

There had been previous girlfriends, but blending issues were too difficult to overcome. Not sure if there were spanners inserted in the works that DH was oblivious of, but it wouldn't surprise me!

Thanks for the link. Realising at any age that your father is a deceitful, disloyal, dirty old man is quite upsetting.

I met a friend yesterday whose father f'ed off with another woman 30+ years ago. It has torn her up all this time. Remarkably she says she still loves her father.

It seems to me we are like ducks imprinting on early care givers and then unable to accept when they turn out to be creeps.

Also went to an awful small family gathering yesterday, supposedly in memory of mum. As ever my mother's existence was swept aside. Zero mention of her. I came home and cried. But woke up angrier than ever.

Two years? That's loads of time! How long should he wait before starting a new relationship? 5 years? A decade?
I really can't understand the problem. If one of my parents died I'd be more than happy for the other to start a new relationship.

Well yeah theoretically I’m sure most of us want our parents to be happy after a tragic death. However, it’s tragic for everyone and we’re all entitled to feel differently about it.

Theoretically I want my dad to be happy, but in reality I supported him through the death, planning the funeral, the actual funeral day and then went into labour a week later. He had stayed in my house, I fed him, kept him busy, took him out to get him to do something other than cry, listened to him for hours, comforted him… then I had my baby seven days after my mum’s funeral and hoped for some parental support. He dropped me for his new bird two months in.

Thanks for your theoretical opinion though.