Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

@SpaceshiptoMars I sense you are not entirely sympathetic to the adult child's concerns.

Do they have family rituals to remember their mother? Is the father allowed to see his dc & dgcs by himself?

Do they have family rituals to remember their mother? Is the father allowed to see his dc & dgcs by himself?

Rituals? Hmmm, not quite sure what you mean by that. The eldest is a don't look back type, and has no photos of Mum visible at their home. I do get the younger ones talking about her when I can.

The dgc ban applies to DH by himself - their main fight is with him, I think, but I was a handy scapegoat. It's a power battle - they want to take on a 'head of family' role and make decisions for everyone else - DH is a live and let live type, but this sticks in his craw!

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower we have talked about it till we were talked out and I think that we are now focusing on moving on and focussing on other relationships in our lives.
I certainly feel better going NC with my father because there are too many unanswerable questions, questions which he has no incentive to answer any more.
In disowning that relationship, I am choosing to disown his lack of morality, his ill treatment of my mother and the way in which they smoothed over the cracks to keep the family united.
I give my father credit for being honest about his flaws. He always played the role of a brave patriarch (and my mum definitely encouraged him) but he never wanted to be given credit for anything he was not.

My lovely mum died when I was in my 20s. My Dad played the grieving widower, but "met" a woman a few months after although he never admitted to a relationship per se. It soon became apparent he had been having an affair with her for many years before my Mum's death, although this was never admitted. I don't know what would have happened if he hadn't also died a few years later, but at his funeral several people said how sad it was he died just after getting engaged (my siblings and I were not told of this). He was always very moral and quite judgemental, which is why I think he kept up this double life after my Mum's death. I think the lack of honesty made it worse for me, as well as realising how dishonest he was when I had looked up to him. I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion, except it is really hard to find out that someone is not who you maybe thought they were, especially while you are dealing with your own grief.

@Soffit hard to give up a relationship with a parent, it's a sort of bereavement, without the sympathy and understanding from others. Glad you have others to support you.

@scoobydo99 that sounds incredibly hard. Double whammy.

I'm confident that my father wasn't having an affair. It's more the way he was clearly lining his ducks up in a row. Yeah, I'm not sure who he is anymore. Will be weird going forward.

@SpaceshiptoMars by rituals I suppose remembering and marking her birth and death days together. (And actually remembering her, not just yakking on about how great one is, like my father did when I tried to have a mini memorial) Maybe anniversaries. Toasting absent friends and all that. If the father is still in the family home, are there still a few bits and pieces of the mother left or has she been erased?

WRT to your wedding, did the upset DC boycott or was it conducted without their knowledge?

No days specifically. It's been a long time now, and they weren't marked before I came on the scene either. I believe there was a massive purge of Mum's stuff by friends not long after the death, so a few bits remain, but only DH seems to value them. We are not living in the family home, so I'm not trampling on that.

We were expecting significant disruptive efforts, so we eloped. (The problems began as soon as the eldest saw the engagement ring.) Forcing children of a previous marriage to go a further wedding sounded both unwise and cruel to me.

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower The biggest plus of widow marrying widower is that your photos of your late spouse can stay up, and you can talk daily of them to each other.

@SpaceshiptoMars the DC expressed concerns. The response was to disregard that person's feelings and have a secret wedding. I'm not surprised this person is upset and wants to protect themself.

Why the urgency to get married?

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower Not concerns, OP, but threats and demands. Physically expressed.

As to urgency? Neither of us is young, and we needed to settle our affairs. While we still could.

I still don’t understand why marriage and cohabitation is necessary all over again in the face of obvious opposition ( after having been through the whole cycle already over decades)? If it hurts adult children, confuses grandchildren and generates stress for everyone involved, then it is a deliberately selfish choice as far as I can see. Some of the opposition may be ugly but staging it is a sign that people still care enough about you to expend their energy. Even if it can be deemed manipulative, it still shows an emotional investment in the relationship.

Nobody cares about my father is doing anymore. We know that he has financed a lavish birthdays/the wedding of the woman’s daughter ( whom he had only met once) and purchased luxury vehicles for other members of her family ( despite having never driven one himself). For all I know, she could be holding him hostage within his own home and fully controlling his money but he has actively chosen this life and rejected our concerns and advice.

What do you do if only one child has a problem, but you have a good working relationship with the others? Let one adult child rule the family? In my case, the younger DSC have SEN and rely on me. So that might explain why cohabitation is necessary, somewhat...

Your parent may also have their elderly parents to care for, and may wish to do that in the family home or close by - and a second wife might well be involved in the care. Expecting a partner to help with elderly parents without the benefit of marriage would generally be regarded as sheer cheeky fuckery by MN standards!

As to marriage, apart from social and religious reasons, there are sound financial ones that can also benefit the stepchildren. You can treat DSC as your own for inheritance tax purposes - did you realize that? Effectively leaving DSC money 'for free' (if it is there to leave, of course!) You can't do that with nephews and nieces of your own blood.

Older pension schemes exist that can only be passed onto a spouse and not a partner. Other schemes say that you can name a partner, but they are not bound to carry out your wishes. So, say I die, and leave a pension to DH - that can be used to pay for any care he needs - taking a certain amount of worry away from the DSC in the future. Equally, DH could leave me a pension, and thus allow capital to be passed to his children instead.

Then there is the question of medical Power of Attorney - this is easier with a wife on the spot. Particularly relevant during pandemic times. And at the grimmer end - funerals and probate.

@Soffit

Some of the opposition may be ugly but staging it is a sign that people still care enough about you to expend their energy. Even if it can be deemed manipulative, it still shows an emotional investment in the relationship.

If you got ugly, threatening, manipulative behaviour from a partner - what would you do? Are you condoning abuse, simply because it comes from an adult child? Elder abuse is a thing, you know.

If you are caring for DSCs with SEN then I do applaud you as there aren’t many takers for those roles even in non blended families. The financial planning reasons do make sense - those advantages are there for the taking. The fact that nieces and nephews cannot benefit the same as DSC is definitely a flaw in the system ( along with hundreds of others).

I do not condone adult children behaving threateningly towards their parent’s and their OHs.

I suppose that your situation highlights the fact that it is more forgivable in some cases rather than others. Personally, I was faced with an OW of around my age who had completely wrapped my father around her little finger. It went as far as them removing themselves to the kitchen and whispering in hushed tones while deciding what he would say next to us. At that point, I realised that it was utterly pointless to carry on.

He even threatened to lodge a complaint about my sibling who holds a regulated role in public office to have them ‘struck off’ in revenge for reporting the theft of my mum’s possessions. They would have potentially lost their livelihood and even their home if this had happened so the complaint was withdrawn.

parent

my FIL did this.
He was lonely it was a simple as that.
Similar dynamic, in that his marriage had been poor in the last few years.
He married again at about age 68 (can't remember)
She was actually older than him (and he had about 3 girlfriends before he met his second wife.)
She was nice, they were happy I think.
She died and he nursed her through her final illness.

My SIL was raging and struggled with it.
My dh (her brother) was quite philosophical about it.

When they married he sold the family home and moved into her flat. They drew up legal agreements so that the inheritances went ot their families.

I know it is really hard, but honestly, he is a lonely old man. Let him find happiness.

"Forcing children of a previous marriage to go a further wedding sounded both unwise and cruel to me."

Sounds a bit disingenuous to me. A sorry tale of deceit, betrayal and loss of trust.

Presumably the threat was to cut contact. What were the demands? You have listed certain financial benefits but a new wife generally means downgrading for the dead woman's children.

Expressing anger has the DC played into a narrative that the old man is a hero, supported by his lovely little wife; the only barrier to their eternal happiness is an unreasonable relative?

What do you want now from the DC?

A sorry tale of deceit, betrayal and loss of trust.
Yes, that's how I feel I've been treated. You've got it in a nutshell.

The DC wanted all the nuclear family to move from their current location to where the DC lives (looong way away). They wanted to take control over all our lives and grab control of the 'family' (DH's and possibly mine - not 100% sure about mine, but DH was going to be living off me with their plan) finances. And much, much, more, but you get the picture!

What do you want now from the DC?

To learn how the adult world actually works?

@SpaceshiptoMars everything seems to be in your favour and the troublesome DC cut out of the family. What's the problem for you?

I still feel very down about my situation, that my mother is being humiliated by my father and this alien invasion. It feels like an infidelity. Sorry, I don't have sympathy for women who barge in and break up a family. Or the arrogant womanising old t*ssers.

If my father had died a few months ago I would have been inconsolable. Now, I just don't know how I would feel.

When my mother died it was the four of us in the room. And then we were three. When my father dies I might have been pushed out by a new wife with power of attorney and all other possible status conferred. At best DB and I will in the room enduring a stranger with no connection to our family.

My Dad was 40 when my Mother died. He never bothered with another woman. I remember him crying, late at night. I was a schoolgirl. I am very sorry about your mother I know how you feel. It was always in my mind that my father would remarry, but he didn't and he died at 47.

Sorry to hear that @saliwales2022 it must have been totally rubbish to lose both your parents at such a young age.

At best DB and I will in the room enduring a stranger with no connection to our family.

This is in your hands though. She doesn't have to be a stranger, she will be entirely at your mercy on this. Welcome her or not - your choice. Don't automatically assume your Dad will pick a bitch. DH picked me FOR his younger children. OK, that then threatened the older ones, but he wasn't expecting that to happen.

@SpaceshiptoMars As you say, my only choice is to submit or opt out. My smug vain father loves that. Part of this is about him asserting himself as the patriarch. This woman has been selected to further his social climbing ambitions. She is the woman he should have married in the first place. So DB and I shouldn't exist. Our absence therefore is no great loss to the old man.

Anyway DH says I need to stop this thread now. He says life is better since he ceased hating his father.

DB says he doesn't want a family feud. I don't either but I'm not the one gleefully binning my mother in favour of an upgrade.

Thank you everyone who has taken the time to reply. This is not the end of the world or the worst thing that ever happened to someone. But it is a relief to know that I'm not alone in being aghast that my father couldn't wait to bury my mother.

I might start a new positive thread on how people got through this sort of situation.