Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

My Dad has been married 5 times. None of which have been because he has been widowed. No.3 wife was 6 months younger than me. No.5 wife is 11 years older than me. He just does not know how to cope without someone looking after him. His current wife No.5 is ill herself with the stress of looking after him.

I also very briefly dated a Widower. He was totally furious that his Wife had left everything to the children. Her equity in the house, all her savings etc. His children offered to give him "loans" to help him out. He was furious with them and her.

Point is, I can see why she did this. He was dating me one month after she died. When I found this out, I dumped him.

I think you are probably focusing your hurt feelings on your dad's partner when it's actually him that has hurt you, indirectly obviously.

As PP have said, it really is very common for men to move on very quickly. My dad was widowed in his early 50s and had a new "friend" within weeks. He's had a succession of partners ever since and never remains single more than a month or two. It's really about being incapable domestically and socially (to a lesser degree). I find it utterly pathetic and it honestly makes me think less of him, but somehow I've never felt like taking that out on the women involved. I think that's probably because in his case he's always been really fixed on not remarrying. My mum was the love of his life and he won't remarry so I suppose I might feel like you if I thought she could be replaced. I think I actually probably pity them more than anything else, being with a man who won't fully commit and basically just keeps them as a convenience.

Men really can be quite pathetic though. My dad is particularly self absorbed. When my mum died I was a teenager and still remember him saying to me "you're young, you'll grow up and have your own family. This is it for me." It took everything I had not to scream at him that he could have another wife but I'd only get one mum.

I understand how you feel, but none of this is your dads new partner's fault. I've always just tried to be happy that he's happy. Honestly, my life is easier when he has someone in his, and there have been partners who I've disliked, but he's my dad and I want him to be happy.

There are two groups of widowers

the first don’t want to be alone and will fairly rapidly look for and find a companion, fairly quickly (within 18m 2 years) settle with them even marry within 2 years

the second group, don’t look and if after 2/3 years not with someone else usually stay solo

I think it is “normal” for men to move on quite quickly. When my lovely MIL died, my FIL, who was in his mid 80s had a “new friend” within 6 months. She’s lovely though and they are well suited. He’s in his 90s now but still very fit and well and they travel together and live together between both their houses, go out for dinner etc. It works for them both (she’d been widowed too) but my DH definitely found it difficult at first…..

My Dad had signed up to online dating even before my mum's funeral. It upset me quite a lot at the time, but I've realised that he was just terrified of being alone and desperate for emotional companionship. She's been gone a year and he's in his second relationship already. He has no idea how to be alone. There's just no point in my being upset about it.

I understand why it's hard for you, but they're his choices and really none of your business. IME men involved with gold diggers (as you so charmingly put it) know exactly what they're getting into as well.

But as I said, if my children thought they should have any opinion on my love life, it would very seriously affect our relationship - for a start they really know nothing about my relationship with their father, even if they think they do.

He's been widowed for 2 years and presumably had a really tough time during her illness. He's allowed to have some fun.

Men really can be quite pathetic though. My dad is particularly self absorbed. When my mum died I was a teenager and still remember him saying to me "you're young, you'll grow up and have your own family. This is it for me." It took everything I had not to scream at him that he could have another wife but I'd only get one mum.

This is true, but doesn't justify your point at all. My DC are devastated by their father's death, as I am, but they're still "allowed" to fall in love, move house, go on holiday etc etc. In fact it's positively encouraged that they should carry on with all the fun things in life, all the things that children think is awful if their widowed parent does it and yet the children don't want the parent being needy with them either.

Being in the father's position, I'm really shocked at how selfish the children are, actually.

Of course losing a parent is really bloody hard, but none of you have a clue what it's like to lose your life partner and have the world judging your actions, when really what you're trying to do is just keep going, not fall apart and become a burden to your children!

Men really can be quite pathetic though. My dad is particularly self absorbed. When my mum died I was a teenager and still remember him saying to me "you're young, you'll grow up and have your own family. This is it for me." It took everything I had not to scream at him that he could have another wife but I'd only get one mum.

whilst this is true your day to day life and structures and social life and home set up remain the same. You’re father has his entire life thrown up in the air. He doesn’t have anyone to come home to, he doesn’t have a partner to talk to. He doesn’t have the couple life he has built up. Neither is worse than the other but don’t criticise de someone for wanting company and love again even if it’s soon. It doesn’t diminish their love for your mum, but they have a right to a life and not just an existence

I'm so sorry about your loss.

It seems to be very common with men. My Dad died years ago in his late 50s and Mum went to a bereavement group organised by the hospice. Think there were a couple of men but mostly female group. Both men found new partners within a year or two. Only one woman did. I suggested to my Mum that it was fine to start a new relationship but she was horrified and said she 'didn't want to have to run round after someone again'!

Wonder how much of it is loneliness - women seem better at going to social gatherings etc? How much wanting someone to clean and cook meals etc?!

My dear mum was barely cold and not even buried when my dad started complaining that he can't be alone. He was with another woman within months. She took all his money bit by bit which came from his pension lump sum and a pay out from my mums death. I kept my distance except to help when he got poorly. He has since died and luckily we didn't lose our family home. I lost alot of respect for him during this time and having previously been a daddy's girl, can now see why my mum was bitter about his behaviour for years

There are some protections in place against 'gold diggers'. Most (all?) pension companies only pay out the spouse's pension if the age gap is less than ten years. More than that and they take circumstances into account.

As a ‘child’ in OP’s position it’s very hard to read the responses from those who’ve lost a partner - although they are beautifully expressed, and very thoughtful and I can empathise entirely on one level as an adult. But on my child level, I feel what I feel about my father moving on so soon after my mother’s death. After she died, he was adamant - no one else ever, 100% no way. And less than 12 months later…

We actually said, as his children - never say never, if you did find love again it would be OK. But words are easy to say and much harder to mean in your heart of hearts and I am really struggling.

It doesn’t help, as a PP says, that men over 70 who are suddenly single yet in good health and compos mentis are sought after - my mum was ill for a long time and I see that my dad was somewhat cynically targeted (or that’s what it looks like from the outside) by a woman he doesn’t really have much in common with.

But I’m trying not to be the selfish child. My selfish child is quite close to the surface, though. I’d hope my dad and his new partner can recognise that it’s not easy to control feelings with your rational thoughts 100% of the time.

If your mum was ill for a long time (as my DH was) he effectively lost her long before she died and spent that time in the most awful kind of limbo where he had no right to a life at all.

I'm actually finding myself really cross at the responses from children here. My DH died a year ago, but I "lost" him a year before that. I don't have a new partner but I am starting to enjoy life again and have some male company. I (apparently foolishly) thought those who care about me might be pleased about that. I'd also like to think that they realise that whilst I can appear happy whilst out in social situations, I still have very dark times privately and I'm trying to do what I can to help myself.

You’re being honest anonymously, Woodenclock - so am I.

I entirely recognise my father had a long road of anticipatory grief. As it happens my mum was well and quite ‘herself’ for most of it, her decline at the end was rapid, but it did change a lot about their retirement and I am not underplaying that at all.

As I say, in one sense - my grown-up adult self - I am happy my dad is not as lonely, has companionship etc etc. The woman he’s with is a nice person. I’m outwardly nothing but happy to see her.

She’s just not my mum, and it brings up a lot of things as it’s a new relationship to navigate with a new person to get to know. And that new person has a claim on my dad in a way that’s really quite difficult to see playing out. My dad’s not the emotionally tuned in parent - that was my mum. I can’t talk about this to her. It’s taboo to say you’re not happy for someone finding love again - even anonymously on here.

I am pleased my dad is starting to enjoy life again, of course I am. Im not a monster, I love him dearly and want him to be happy. He very much deserves happiness, he’s been nothing but a great father and husband to my mum when she was alive. I’m just not generous enough in my heart of hearts to feel pleased that his happiness comes with a new woman I need to integrate into my life. It is selfish. But it’s not rational. Feelings aren’t. Yours or mine.

Thank you so much everyone who has taken time to reply. I really appreciate it.

The first time mum died I went over her physical health: why did she let herself get overweight? why didn't she have double mastectomy straight off? why didn't she take up fell running? etc. That sort of stuff I could talk about with my dad and my aunt and friends.

This second bereavement is about her anxieties and the poor mental health she had for so much of her life. Apart from my brother and in a limited way my DH, I can't tell anyone about that.

I know I should want my father to be happy. But if the price of his happiness is my mother's death, then that feels like a bum deal.

Hearing other people's experiences and that you found a way through is really helpful. My DH has a similar but different situation, which he finds hard. But I think men are more stoic, at least on the outside.

@WoodenClock your children might be very happy for you to find a boyfriend. A girlfriend for my dad is fine. It's the thought of a new woman supplanting my mother. Sorry if I'm making you feel bad about moving on with your life. That's definitely not the aim of this thread.

@NoSquirrels thank you for sharing your feelings. I'm glad your father was a good husband to your mother. Maybe that's as good as it gets in this situation.

@RidingMyBike I have noticed that women who have less money than their partner tend to be subservient. They have to be a 'good girl'. My mum was very dependent on my father, trapped in a gilded cage. But she wasn't good at doing subservience. I can picture this obsequious woman flattering my vain father, which makes me feel sick. Maybe not for financial gain, but because she is a hanger on. Eg if they go on expensive holidays together she is beholden to him. A woman with her own money is more of an equal.

As I've said earlier, my father takes little interest in my children. There's something Old Testament about inheritance. It's as much about who belongs in the group as it is about money.

@JourneyToThePlacentaOfTheEarth I'm sorry to hear that. Most of this has actually happend yet but I feel like I need to protect myself.

When he gloated to me about pulling this woman, I suddenly saw how it had been for my mother all these decades.

*hasn't actually happened

My Dad is was online dating after my Mum's death. Eventually, he proposed to one of the women. It all fell apart pretty quickly after that. He has been FAR more circumspect after that debacle.

@RidingMyBike ha! my father actually went on a date with someone he met at the bereavement counselling group. Which I thought was pretty crass.

The bottom line is that over 60 or so there's few single males. The jowly old men that remain suddenly become Young Elvis. That's why they pair up so easily and women less so. Male entitlement. No one worries about widowed women being lonely. That's just their lot.

If your father’s girlfriend is 20 years + younger money will be a big factor in her dating him. Yuck - both of them.

Nothing you can do about that other than minimise time with her.

You CAN refuse to listen to your father saying negative things about your mother.

It sounds like you have complicated thoughts and feelings about your parents and their relationship, eg wanting to think your father loved your mother.

Am sure plenty of single older women choose it! Especially those with enough money to live comfortably.

I have several older women in my family who, upon bereavement or divorce, actively chose to stay single and still choose it.

@ivykaty44 yes, I think you are right. I wonder what the split is. Judging from this thread there's more in the move straight on with new wife camp. But for some there's a middle 'girlfriend' way.

When my grandmother died my grandfather was really upset. He still wanted to get on with life, but didn't turn into Froggy Would a Wooing Go.