Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

I'm widowed. I'm also a grown adult. If my children told me what they could "accept" in terms of my social life I'd be furious.

And frankly, my money is mine, if I want to spend it on toy boys or give it to the cats' home, that's business. I don't, I hope to help my DC at some point, but there's a very strong possibiltiy that would change if I got a letter like that!

I miss their dad terribly, but my life didn't end. They're adults with their own lives and I have to find a way to carry on.

My marriage wasn't perfect either and that's hard when you're "supposed" to idolise everything about the person you've lost. I daresay you occasionally moan about DH to friends, that doesn't change because someone's died, in fact it's part of the much needed "therapy".

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower definitely a loyalty thing for sure. Dad chucked us kids (there are 3 of us) under the bus for his partner, it was very sad. Still, he did the right thing in the end, it's just shame it cost him a few relationships. he never understood why certain people were upset and cut him out of their lives, and I could never understand how he couldn't understand. He wasn't a daft man, he was just blinded by his obsession with her.

Hello @PeaceLillyWhiteFlower , I’m in a similar situation. I’m 31 and my mum suddenly died in October. She and my dad had been married for 33 years. My dad had a new partner by December. He asked and asked if my sister and I would meet her - sister said no but I said yes to keep the peace. I wish I hadn’t. It was just so alien, and I’d just had a baby and seeing this random woman holding the grandchild my mum didn’t live to see upset me so much more than I expected. He’s pulled away and sees her all the time. I don’t know if he wants space or anything but I’ve just left it as it is for now.

There’s no right or wrong but the way that I look at it is that we’re both entitled to feel what we’re feeling, as you and your dad are. To paraphrase a pp, you can find a new partner but you can’t find a new mum. Hope you’re ok 💕

Sorry @AuntieMarys I didn't see your reply. Yes, legally he is a free agent. Owes me and his grandchildren nothing. I'm being completely irrational.

@WoodenClock my father is very charming. Never flirty or lechy, but he's always had women swooning over him. It made my mum so insecure. And her two sisters both had husbands walk out leaving them high and dry with young children, so that added to her anxiety. Not all men court female attention like that.

Him going off with an adoring groupie is her worst nightmare come true. And I can't do anything about it. I don't want to have no relationship with my father, but I feel awful for my mother. (IME golddiggers know which side their bread is buttered. An equal woman wouldn't be quite so sickening)

@neatlittlerows I'm so sorry about your mum and your children not getting to know their gran. The loss of granny was a big part of my first grief.

Your father's actions sound pretty harsh on top of losing your mum. I hope he comes round and recognises his family. Are your partner's parents involved and loving?

@Dozycuntlaters well done keeping your head about it. I need to cool down. I don't want to expose my mum so can only discuss this anonymously. Have been bottling it all up for weeks.

OP you need to have some help to deal with this. Until you have walked in his shoes you will never know what it feels like to be widowed. Your life is thrown up in the air, it’s so f*cking lonely. Your dad being with another woman doesn’t mean he didn’t love her. It means he’s still living. So long as she’s a decent person he’s doing nothing wrong - to be fair he is doing nothing wrong anyway. And to tel him the kind of woman he dna go out with, just no. It’s not up to you. I am widowed and it makes me so mad when people criticise other widowed people and them meeting someone else. Like you can move more than one child, you can love another person. Ultimately your spouse isn’t here. It’s utterly crap and if spending time with someone else is a means of survival it’s a chink of brightness in a really hard time. It’s not entitlement.

i don’t know how long your mum was ill for. Anticipatory grief is a real thing, your grief starts with the illness and as a partner your life changes far more than those of your children. Often much of the grief is processed before the death and death simply isn’t as awful as living with the illness and seeing the partner change and suffer. The death often lifts a weight and with it a desire to seek normality whatever that is.

i think this is different for the children but try not to judge your dad too harshly, he isn’t doing anything wrong

Sorry, you really don't sound very rational. Your parents relationship was or should be separate to that with their children, although TBH it sounds like you can't stand him and are also aware your mother had faults. You can't fix their marriage, which is now over. The "adoring groupie" thing is immaterial, as your mother is dead and therefore has no views on the issue one way or another.

If you want a relationship with him, build on that. If you don't , break contact.

No she is struggling with her dad rewriting history and wiping her mum and her memory off the earth
clearly you have not read her post 🤦‍♀️

@Housetreecar at the end of her life mum was so frightened and lashing out at dad. (the covid anti visitor BS didn't help, although we did get to spend the last few days with her) I said to dad "write her a letter and tell her that you love her". To which he harrumphed, "I'm not doing that".

You say: anticipatory grief. I say: he couldn't wait to bury my mother

@CPL593H if you grow up with both your parents then their relationship is very much part of your formative years.

I want to be loyal to my mother. That doesn't end just because she died.

I usually get on very well with my father. It would be easier if I didn't. I've been ruminating on all the ways he could have treated my mother better. He'll probably be totally empathic and sensitive to this new woman's needs.

@Comedycook losing your mum and then your dad so young must have been very, very tough. I hope you had a supportive extended family.

My dd was 72 when my dm died, they'd been married for over 40 years. She had dementia, so my dd ended up being her carer for about 5 years, the last few years were really hard as he never went out as my dm couldn't leave the house. Within about 6 months he's got himself a girlfriend. He's a really social leader bloke so had, and still does a fantastic social life. He still sees this woman but I think it's more a friends with benefits, but also a travelling partner. I'm actually really glad he had her as they lived together didn't covid and kept each other company

In my experience men move on very quickly!
I lost two friends in the last 5 years . Both had girlfriends very quickly , one within weeks !

My fil made a huge, cringy song and dance about how much he missed my mil when she died. Pretty soon (6 months?) after that, he started dating a few women then had a girlfriend. Asked if he could bring her to our wedding. We said no. He broke up with her then asked if he could bring his next girlfriend to the wedding! Made a HUGE fuss about that and made the whole thing miserable (not the whole wedding, just his involvement in it). He's since married her, sold the family home and shared nothing with his children or grandchildren, and we haven't seen him since. Which is a silver lining to the story, as he was a narcissistic prick who we are all better off without!

DF-i-L outlived DM-i-L. He is still single years later. He really missed her. He had a fair bit of interest from a number of elderly widows and divorcees, including previous girlfriends, and got quite perky about one of them, bu tin the end I think he knew he'd never really get over M-i-L and preferred his own company. He is an adorable man. I love DF-i-L.

Also, my hideous fil made many comments about how badly treated he had been by mil. All part of him rewriting the narrative as a long suffering, endlessly good man. Him and his new partner banned my husband and his siblings from helping to sort their mum's things/clear the house and left them no personal possessions of hers. They didn't want his money but would have loved some sentimental items. He has 100% told the new woman that all of his children have wronged him and he is a saint. And she naively laps it up!
Prick.

So yep, I totally get your concerns. It feels so similar. BUT you still want a relationship with him and so are going to have to navigate a way through it.

Thank you for your kind comment

Sounds like you are going through a really tough time coming to terms with your dads choices. I’m really confused about why you (or your DB) thought it was appropriate to tell you dad what is/isn’t acceptable in terms of who he dates (or even marries) though. Why is it your place to tell him what an acceptable age range is, and that the woman has to “have her own money” (how would you even know the woman’s financial affairs?). Unless you have very serious concerns he’s being conned or something, which it doesn’t sound like the case.

I think it’s fine to say that you find it upsetting if he disses your mum, but everything else, however much you dislike it, isn’t up to you.

I’m not sure how your behaviour shows loyalty or not loyalty to your mum, or why this matters. “I feel awful for my mum” makes no sense - I’m sorry to say this relationship is having no affect on her (and neither would a relationship you approve of).

“Punishing” him by disapproving of this relationship will have zero effect on your mum, but will just eat you up, and probably have no effect on him either. And whether he is kind and empathetic to the new woman or not won’t affect how his and your mum’s relationship was.

It sounds like it might be helpful for you to talk some of these feelings through with a counsellor? I doubt your dad will change, and the only thing these feelings are doing is eating you up, not actually changing your dad or the relationship he had with your mum.

It’s hard when it’s people who are so close to you, but I think you need to come to terms with the fact that their relative was theirs. Independent of their relationships with you. As with all relationships, it’s very hard to see the “inside” as an outsider (no matter how close you are). And you can grieve your mum while getting on with your life, your spouse and your own children. Your dad can’t in the same way: his choice as a widower is to be alone and focus on that grief, or try to find some companionship and happiness elsewhere. I agree with the pp who said that you can love more than one person; he can be happy in a new relationship while still
really missing your mum.

Grief is so tough. Totally understandable that you react emotionally rather than rationally when you’ve lost someone close to you. But I do think you need to allow others to deal with it in the way that works for them. If for your dad that’s finding solace in a new relationship, then that’s his way. You can’t read anything into his feelings for your mum from that.

My dad had a new girlfriend within months. A friends dad had a new girlfriend before his wife was dead ( but in late stages). A lot of men can't handle being alone. Those are the ones that move on quickly. I don't mind the moving on as such -if DH would die I'd want to find new love- but it's the desperateness that makes it feel wrong and a bit dangerous. They choose a partner when they are very vulnerable, leaving them open to abuse. Thankfully my dads girlfriend isn't a bad egg. I don't like her but she cares well for him and isn't after money or anything. I do want my dad to be happy.

You are clearly struggling with this. I recognise the feelings, had them too. A few talks with a therapist or coach can really help though. You can't change what happened, but you can learn how to deal with it.

My parents are dead and I've been widowed. The past is what it was, good, bad and indifferent. Your relationship with your mother was not the one your father had with her. You can be loyal to her while maintaining a relationship with your father, or not, because your memories are what they are, her will is being administered according to her wishes (as it should be) and his decisions about his future are down to him.

My warning would be this: telling widowed people what they should or should not be doing and what you will and will not accept will not necessarily result in the outcome you want, because parent or not they are as capable of resenting interference as anyone else.

I agree with this. I'm dating a widower - we're in our fifties. I'm not a 'vulture', and he'd give short shrift to anyone telling him the kind of relationship he's 'allowed' to have.

I'm sorry for your loss. My mother died nearly three years ago, and my father 18 months later

You've called her "a groupie" several times, and talked about her 'having her claws into him'. Why? What is it that makes you use those words?

My mum had another man in her life well within 12 months of my dad's death. It wasn't easy, and he was a bit younger than her. But he gave me no reason to use any pejorative language about him. So presumably there's something that this woman is doing that raises your hackles. What is it?