Walking together on a journey - sharing experiences, tears, anger and sometimes even laughter. United we stand, divided we fall.

[shabbatheGreek]

This special thread was started in 2008. Its a special place - one which nobody would ever willingly come to. I hope we pay tribute to our lost children by helping each other. xxxx

hello all. Lily, I agree with "loveanddeath", that earring was definitely a sign. She knows. Her little girl, Sylvie-Rose, has often sent her signs, including ones which even include my red-headed Mia.

Loveanddeath sending you hugs from here, dear friend. I was flicking through the channels tonight, and on one, MrMia accurately picked out the the park where we walked together that sunny day…

shabba and heavenlyE how are things with you both?

Feeling somewhat wrung out today. A little girl we love has epilepsy, a friend's son has been diagnosed with untreatable cancer, and we have learnt tonight another dear friend may have leukaemia. The world is feeling pretty unfair tonight. But I guess I knew that already. It just makes me mad and sad that our pain actually doesn't stop anyone else's.

Morning everybody.

A sign! (Feels a bit like a moment from Life of Brian) and made me grin.

Mia's I'm so sorry for all your horrible news and I've messaged you separately.
Loveanddeath how are you doing today?

Sending love to you all and (because it's that time of day and I've just made myself a really delicious coffee!

Morning girls xx

Mias - stuff not great at ours to be honest. Benefits made a massive mess of our money around Xmas - we are broke, like we never have been before. Dont let anyone tell you that people on benefits are living the 'life of Riley!!'

My parents are very poorly - watching them slip away in front of my eyes.

I normally pin on a smile and pretend Im fine but not able to even do that at the moment.

AND I am a miserable git!!!!

......and, after that very selfish post I noticed your sad news Mias - life is so unfair. I don't know what to say xx

Hello, so sad to hear of everyone's sad news. I kind of feel that once we have experienced loss like this, we and our loved ones should have a reprieve from any more pain but life doesn't seem to be like that at all.

I agree about the sign being a sign, Lily - and I am glad to hear you were supported by friends and family during your birthday. My birthday is soon, I know I don't want to hear any 'happy birthdays', it just feels quite pointless at the mo.

I am desperate to see a sign from E but I haven't yet. I don't know what I think about afterlife and spirits/souls - it is not something I had really stopped to consider before though I would say I was open minded to it. I want to know something of him endures, and more than just my memories of him.

Hi everybody. How're you doing today? I'm going to try and work in school today. It's nervewracking and tough but I have a lovely team to work with and the safety net of knowing that I can just go home if I feel too wobbly.
I'm sorry Shabbs for all your crap news. I hope you get a bit more sorted out very soon.

Heavenly - I didn't even think it was a sign, just a birthday present (I was being too thick to even think).

Hugs and coffee to you all

Morning girls xx

Lilly - sounds like a good plan to work in school - especially if you know you can escape!! I hope you have a good day xx

Good morning, everyone xx

lily how was your day?

I am wondering about going back to work. I wasn't working when E died as we had recently moved to a new area - before that I was on mat leave. The days feel too long at the mo and my work is quite 'fast paced'. I imagine, like most of my thoughts at the moment, that this is me trying to 'escape' my current reality though.

HeavenlyE, would you be able to ease yourself back in, maybe just one or two days a week, does your job allow for that? See how it goes?
I never really felt ready after Sylvie-Rose, I suppose your life changes so irrevocably that being ready for anything seems like a strange concept. But I have managed to get through it. I have cried once or twice, last week a lady said "I'm dying to ask, what did you have?" because I was pregnant the last time she was in and she knew I had four boys. And I just had to say "X, I had a little girl but she died" and I just welled up.
I have had one or two things like that happen. People like to ask about how many children you have, just making conversation, and I think it's good to know what answer you will give if asked. It's less to deal with then, when you are asked.

How did it go, Lily?

Morning girls xx

Morning girls.

Thanks for your messages. Made me . Yesterday was ok, but exhausting and overwhelming. I'm very lucky that I don't actually have to work, but I do love teaching and supply teaching works very well for me. I love working with the children and the staff in my school are particularly kind and supportive. It's a great safety net knowing that if I find it too much I can just tell them and they'll manage somehow. I think that knowing they will cover for me if I'm having a wobbly moment makes it easier to cope. I don't want to do any more full days at the moment but I think I can manage random half days and have accepted two more.

I'm seeing a doctor today as I've got a huge open wound on my cheek which suddenly just appeared and then doubled in size overnight. The nurse-practitioner who I spoke to on the phone said it sounded like a bacterial infection and prescribed some antibiotic cream, but quite honestly, stupid as it is, this was the last straw. I was very upset when I was talking to her and she has made an appointment for me to see the doctor this afternoon. It's silly I know, but it's just too much. I feel so fragile and unpredictable. OK one moment and then diving to the depths of despair the next. Are you like that too? Or (in the lovely words of MN) AIBU?

love I know exactly what you mean about finding words to answer that question about how many children you have. I now say "I had three sons but now have two". Could you try saying something like "I had five but now have four". But if you're asked directly what you had I think that giving a straight answer is probably easier for you in the long run, but desperately hard at the time. I always have tissues in a pocket or somewhere for those moments. I don't think I've said to you that I'm sorry about Sylvie-Rose. What a beautiful name.
heavenly I agree with love about easing yourself back in. I went into school at break time and lunch time just to have coffee and chat to colleagues without any suggestion of being available to work. It was incredibly difficult and I did cry a lot, but I think it did get a bit easier, and I can now at least get into the classroom without sobbing.
shabbs how're you doing today?

I feel like sending you all a very un-mumsnet hug!

I'm glad your day went ok yesterday Lily - I can imagine having that 'safety net' is helpful, to know you have an escape route if needed. DH has been back at work a bit - just 2 days a week atm. He finds the day at work hard as he doesn't know anyone well so gets asked questions like 'did you have a good weekend?'. Now he just closes off from everyone to avoid interaction.

I am going to look into going back to work. I would only go part time anyway due to DS1 but I would be going to a new job as we have moved area.

These days I say, "I have five children but only four living". I hate leaving her out so I'd rather have that conversation. Partially as well because people tend to make the "Wow, four boys!" comment in that irritating way that was bad enough before I had Sylvie-Rose but is ten times worse afterwards. They kind of say it in a pitying way which I hate. I love my boys to bits, I just wish I still had my girl. I think those comments would also have been awful, if she'd been a boy and died.

Six months after she died, we were at my ILs at a birthday party and my SIL was teasing another SIL about how many children she would have and turned to me and said "Five is too many, isn't it Love?"
I really could have kicked her but she didn't even realise she'd said anything wrong.

Ugh, I hate people saying silly things because they weren't thinking...just makes me feel our children have been forgotten by everyone else. We bought a car soon after E had died, MIL said 'how exciting' - I had to tell her nothing was exciting any more.

I haven't faced up to the 'how many children have you got?' question yet. I was in fact dreading the arrival of the waitrose man this morning as he hadn't come since E died and we had talked about having boys (him 3 and me 2) but luckily for me it was a different one today.

I remember once, after my twin. Gareth, died, pushing Dan in the twin buggy down to my Mums. I couldn't afford a single buggy at the time. My husbands Aunt stopped me and said (bearing in mind Gareth had been dead about 3 weeks) 'Oh I am glad to see you are OVER it now!!!!!' I never spoke to her again, I have no idea even if she is alive and to be quite honest I am not interested

And two old ladies, sat on the bus when I got on, less than two weeks after Matt was killed. 'See that road there? Thats where that little lad was knocked down. Bloody teenage parents I bet...(I was 36) they dont deserve kids!!!! I sat down in front of them for a little while and listened to them calling me names and making assumptions. In the end the bus driver stopped the bus (it was a service we used every day and we knew all the drivers) he walked up to them and said 'This is the lady whose little boy was killed and she is a great Mum - the pair of you either shut up or get off my bus!!!!!' A massive round of applause went up on the bus and they both shut up!

People ask stupid questions and make stupid comments. Sometimes its because they dont know better and other times its because they have no understanding or tact.

shabbs that is unbelievable. Huge to the lovely bus driver and a bolt of lightning for the bad-mouthed old bitches, and a huge to you for having the self control not to hit them, or your aunt. I have a rage on with a cousin who hasn't contacted me at all since Paddy died. Nothing AT ALL. I'm godmother to one of his sons. I know they live in NZ but still....
8love* some people are just knobs. Simple as that. We had to go and see my ILs before Christmas and nobody mentioned Paddy at all. Nobody asked how the other two are. Very hurtful.
heavenly just do as much as you can do. My husband had to go back to work (in Africa) three weeks after Paddy died - only a week after the funeral. It felt far too soon and it was far too soon. But he did get away for another couple of weeks to come back home a month later.

We can only do as much as we can do.

Fair dues to that bus-driver, shabbs! I'd have loved to slap those old beeeatches with a wet fish!

Still see the driver although we have moved house 3 times since Matts accident!!! At Christmas he grows his beard till its long and drives his bus dressed as Father Christmas.

Its so hurtful when people dont mention our children - especially family or friends. I think that they think they will hurt us when its the absolute opposite. Nothing can hurt as much as losing them.....I love hearing people say my sons names....when I first went on FBook I spent days looking at Matts school friends profiles. Looked through their pictures and wondered why he wasn't at any of their 8th birthday parties I was shocked by how they had all grown up - I struggled for so long with it all. Then one by one all those kids....and they all turn 30 this year....contacted me and talked about Matt. Always with laughter and 'do you remember whens' it was fantastic.

Why do people think that we dont want them to talk about our children? I dont care if they are worried they will upset us, or make us cry, its just fantastic to hear someone elses memories xxx

Lily - have been meaning to say - when I was expecting Matt I wanted to call him Patrick. My DH laughed his head off and said 'You cant have Danny & Paddy!! Although I do know a lady whose boys are called Max & Paddy - like the Peter Kay programme.....

shabbs Danny and Paddy would have sounded fantastic, but Matt's lovely too.

Our child has died. How the hell do people think they make it worse by talking about them or mentioning them? Ignoring it is so much worse.

We used to be assistant managers in a pub in Greenford, Middlesex. We had hundreds of construction workers in every night and they were all Irish. They were mainly called Danny or Paddy think thats why my DH didn't fancy the idea!! I love all the old names though. Have no idea what I would have called a girl if I had one.

xx

I am Irish and Danny and Paddy sound normal to me!