For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

[karmathreefold]

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

Karma is there anywhere you and dd1 could go and stay with friends for a bit of support? Do you live in the London area at all?

I can't believe your jealous sister, that she would begrudge you your parents support at this time - sounds like you had a bit of a messed up upbringing which has influenced your choice in partners

You both deserve so so much more, all I can do is send you virtual hugs x

Oh God, Karma, you poor poor thing! Your parents really should put their foot down with your sister, why on earth should she always get her own way and why now when you have suffered such a devastating loss.

Please call one of your friends and tell them what you've told us. Yes, it's almost Christmas and everyone's busy but if one of my friends told me what you've just told us, I would drop everything and come over.

Can you call someone on your Psych team and ask if they can see you urgently? And tell them you want to talk to them without dh as tbh, he is not in your corner at all. I am no expert but it sounds like your meds need to be adjusted, temporarily at least.

Virtual and I'm sorry I'm too far away to give you real ones.

I'm seeing my CPN tomorrow alone!

I'm very afraid to be honest, as I'm scared that they'll contact social services, and take DD1 away. I know logically, that it's unlikely, as when I was at hospital before I had her, there were mothers (some single) who had young children, some were extreme self-harmers, and they still had their children.

One of my best friends, is also bipolar. Her DS is exactly the same age as DD1 (we met in hospital before our DC were born), and she was very ill after her DS was born, was sectioned, SS came out, then decided that she was OK if she took her meds, but still I'm worried. I know it's medication that I need, and it needs adjusting, but I am very concerned with being honest - though if I think being honest is proactive and shows a level of awareness that DD1 could be affected, or my ability to care for her impaired, whereas lying/covering up, and then being found out, would be more detrimental, and show a lack of care, or awareness that my condition could adversely affect her. So I guess telling the truth is the best thing to do, but I'm scared.

I feel a bit better this morning. I read an interesting quote that grief outlasts sympathy, and that seems so true, especially when applied to friends, who seem to think I should be back to normal. Or, some friends, who've avoided seeing me before, and are now willing - presumably because they think I won't be likely to break down now - 'sunshine friends' is what they all them.

I would love to be able to call friends and tell them i need them, but honestly they all say they are busy - I'm sick of trying. My friend (the bipolar one, who I consider my best friend, and the one who was there for me the most following Tamsin's death) is AWOL right now. I have a sneaky suspicion that she is pregnant, but doesn't want to say (based on the meds they want her to start taking), and this makes me sad (that she can't tell me).

Thank you all for your virtual hugs, they really do make me feel heaps better xx

karma, they won't take your dd1 away. Unless a Mum is very ill indeed, it's always better for children to be with their Mums and your dd1 is a lovely well-cared-for little girl and they know she needs you. I am glad you are going to the CPN without dh. Don't be afraid to tell them about his behaviour.

Isn't it awful when people don't bother to talk to you until they think you're more likely to be "back to normal". I have friends who haven't talked to me at all since Sylvie-Rose died and other people whom I had lost touch with have been wonderful. It just goes to show who the real friends are, IMO.

chip you couldn't be more right. I have a FB friend whom I've never met. She had a campaign about saving a robin that was stuck in a Sainsbury's store, and added people from that.

She has been so kind, so caring. She even wrote on her wall, asking for people to pray for me. Even though she was on holiday in the Bahamas a few weeks ago, she took the time to contact me.

Then there are 'friends' who I've known for years, who have never commented on Tamsin, not even when I announced her death, yet comment on photos of DD1, or if I put a 'funny' status up. Even a simple "I'm sorry" would have sufficed.

Fair weather friends really aren't worth bothering with are they? if they can't be there in the most awful period of our lives (and there is nothing worse than the death of a child) then they're not worth our trouble at all. I won't be bothered with these people again.

(((hugs)))) xx

Karma, you are making the right decision by seeing your CPN alone, and being prepared to be honest about your situation. You are a brave lady. And please, please, talk about your H.

As for friends, well, I agree. Most of mine have been brilliant, but some have totally kept their distance, even by email. Like you, I am not going to contact them again. Yet I have had so many touching emails and letters from people we barely know, offering words of kindness.

Karma be brave and talk to your CPN big hugs x

Karma, I haven't posted before as I'm one of those people who never have the 'right' thing to say but I've been reading your thread and I just want you to know that there's another person out here thinking of you.
I will be thinking of you on Christmas day and I hope that you will be able to find a little bit of happiness.
Your photos of your little angel are beautiful :)

(((((hugs)))))

Karma, how did your CPN visit go today? Did you talk to her openly about everything? Hoping it was useful for you. xx

I did talk about everything - he was more concerned about how I appeared yesterday, he thinks I urgently need a change in meds, and was worried about me being alone with DD1.

It makes it hard when you have a mental illness, especially when I become more ill, for other concerns to be taken seriously, and not to sound like I'm in the grip of paranoid delusions. xx

karma, from what I have read on the Relationships board, a lot of women who are at the receiving end of emotional abuse go unrecognised by HCPs. But I always remember a joke people used to make when I was in college which went "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean everyone isn't talking about you!"

You have posted about your dh here and lots of women, some with experience of domestic abuse and infidelity, and most of us without any MH problems have red-flagged your dh's behaviour as abusive at best and suspicious on some occasions. Your dh may be using your MH problems against you and convincing other people of his innocence because of them but we're not fooled here!

Your meds may need adjusting, that's one issue. But you do seem to be quite good at identifying when you are ill, you have insight into your condition. The abuse is quite another matter and possibly better dealt with by Womens Aid than a psych team.

chip your're right of course, I will sort myself out on the meds, as my psychiatrist called me in today. From the way I was talking she was very concerned about me, and talked of either having the crisis team over Christmas, or - maybe going into hosptial. They've told DH what meds I'm to take.

I plan to take them, get more stable, then contact the women's aid, or my HV in the new year (she's been ill with flu this last week, and understands me, and knows of my marital difficulties.

DH threw away a card my friend gave me - after ripping it up first.

My friend wrote it to me, and omitted both DH & DD1 from it. He's since apologised, but said that excluding him upset him. I told him that anyone sending him a card - that excludes me - will be treated the same, but he said "it's not the same" and that he'd be angry if I did this... so upset now I can't type anymore

I am so sorry. Wishing you so much strength and support.

you are having to cope with such alot right now karma, but i couldnt have put it any better than Chip did.

and i think youre right to tackle one thing at a time right now. but i also think you are very insightful, and your husband is clearly, im sorry for this and for being so blunt, but he is clearly an abusive bastard.

how anyone could be so nasty to someone in your position right now is beyond me.

i think when you are feeling more on top of your illness, you could do no worse than at least speak to someone from Womens Aid.

Karma, I started to write yesterday, but didn't post. In any case, chip and vicar have said very much what I think, but far more eloquently. We are off today, and not sure if I will have wifi access, but please know that I am thinking of you, sending you kind thoughts and peace for the holiday period. xx

miasmummy It's probably too late for you to get this - but if you do, have a safe journey, and as peaceful a time as you can... I will be thinking of you too. I showed my mum a video of Mia, my mum said how beautiful she is xxxxx

I went to my parents after the psychiatrist yesterday. DH was left with DD1, and I felt like myself, it was quite refreshing, reminded me of who I used to be.

karma, how are you doing?

chip thanks for thinking of me xx

I seem to be going down now, probably due to the different meds.

DH accused me of deliberately trying to get attention by going into Boots and crying. He thinks I went looking for Tamsin's outfit, when the absolute truth is I did, straight after the funeral, and they'd stopped stocking it - it was there the other day, at the end of the clothing aisle, so that even though I wasn't looking in the clothing section, it was unavoidable - and very spooky.

I went upstairs in Boots, to get some cotton wool pads, and some Oilatum, and they are in the children's section.

I feel awful now, as if I am 'getting upset' on purpose; I feel bad that maybe I'm subconciously attention seeking - even though I was fine until I saw the outfit (which I didn't expect). I feel pissed off that DH thinks that me getting upset over such things is 'attention seeking'!

DH got angry with me on Wednesday. I told him I was at my parents, and he was fine with that, then I went to sainsbury's with mum. He phoned me to ask where I was, as he was "alone with DD1). How the heck does he think I manage. He moans that I've not tidied in the bedroom, but DD1 screams in her playpen, and can't be left alone, it's OK for him, but I would love him to watch her whilst I go upstairs and have some 'me' time.

I dyed my hair (crappily & needs to be redone, Clairol perfect 10 is rubbish imo), and then had a nice bath last night when DD1 was in bed. I put on some nice body lotion (to try to make me feel better, and DH commented on my smell. Then said that I didn't need to bother with body lotion, that I didn't need to do my hair, that I don't need make-up, because he wasn't interested in me because I was "hot".

I feel so rubbish now.

I want to go uptown alone tomorrow. I used to do it, every Xmas eve, before I met DH, and just feel the need to do it again (and taking DD1 is not appropriate as it will be too crowded for a pushchair). Now DH wants to come, he seems to think I'm meeting someone, and is demanding to come if I've nothing to hide - he bloody hates the town when it's quiet, and hates going to where I want to go, and makes it a stressful experience, so I definitely don't want him moaning.

And I'm still so sad, just more upset now, I was supposed to be happy this Christmas

I'm not surprised your feeling very down his attitude is awful.

Do you feel strong enough to say that you need some "me" town that you will go into town early and if he wants to he can meet you from x time.

It's almost as if he knows he is treating you like shit and that you deserve better and will leave him so know he's making it impossible for you to regain your emotional strength to have the ability to go?

How dare he have a go for you being upset! How dare he criticise you doing things to make yourself feel better. How dare he complain that dd1 is too difficult to cope with yet expects you to do it when you are still physically recovering from a horrendous c-section (let along the emotional and mental stuff of top)

How bloody dare he!!!!!!

Do you mean uptown as in London?

No uptown as in Aylesbury, not at all exciting x

Shame I can do London easier than Aylesbury. How about getting up early and just going out? Is he an early riser or not really?

No he's not an early riser. He's just decided that he's going out for the day tomorrow, so I'm now stuck with DD1, he really does think I've arranged to secretly meet someone, how bloody crazy can he be? I want my baby back, I'm so not interested in looking, or even thinking about other men, how can I be?

WTF?????????????

So the dd he can't cope with on his own for a couple of hours with you can look after all day on your own.

His level of abuse and manipulation seems to be rising daily tbh.

Yep he wants you trapped at home unable to escape. Use it as an opportunity to phone womans aid?

he can obviously sense that the marriage is over and you are looking to leave IMHO.

Can you think of anyone who may be able to pop around for a while tomorrow just as a distraction?

jesus fucking h christ.

i would like to just come over and slap him. Karma, i think to get what you need you are going to have to leave this idiot man. Is he squeezing you harder because he is sensing something as Random says? i think it sounds like it, but i think he will just tighten his grip until you end up cracking, when what you need right now is just the exact opposite.

you do know that your reactions, in Boots, are totally normal dont you? He is messing with your head.

Vicar, fancy a trip to Aylesbury with me?

Glad it's not just me who feels like.

I'm really quite incensed on your behalf and the more I think about it the more I want to evict him from your home and tell him to f off.

My friends son was still born 2.5 years ago - I still sometimes well up if I think about what they went through etc - and they are just friends, not especially close ones just people I go to know well enough to get a small insight into their world of pain.

Who the f does he think he is to decide to go out for the day just so you can't go uptown on your own for a few hours. Why do his desires veto yours when you stated what you wanted first? Tell him he can shove off for as long as he wants once you are back. You have shopping to do and no you're not doing it with dd strapped in a buggy on Christmas Eve.

In fact arrange for a locksmith to come around whilst he's out.