Can you lot help me with a new strategy for mealtimes because the whole experience is becoming utterly objectionable for all concerned.

[Slubberdegullion]

I can feel my gut twisting up into a ball of tension before every meal time because I know it is all going to be fraught.

Every meal (apart from breakfast) regardless of what I serve is met with a constant stream of moaning, whining, complaints, up and down from the table like a bride's nightie and then finishes with THEM setting goals for themselves

"I'm going to have two more mouthfuls and then it's pudding"

How did it all get so unpleasant? I have obiously made a grave error somewhere along the way. They hate eating and I hate cooking for them and then sitting with them while they protest at how ghastly it all is.

I need to start again I think.

They are 4 and 5. The 4 yo is a fussy bugger, the 5 yo is somewhat better but has her 500m badge in whining.

I agree with all the above - I have an omnivorous ds1 who worked out early on that praising mummy´s cooking is an easy way of getting what you want and a much fussier ds2 who only really likes porridge - but would add 2 things. I never assume that when ds2 rejects something it means he ´won´t eat´it in perpetuity, only that it´s not what he feels like now (so I don´t have a category of ´things he won´t eat´), which means neither of us feels that battle lines have been drawn, and, hate to say this, but if you´re a foodie type and put a lot of time and energy into cooking it´s hard to keep the emotional temperature down. I´m normally utterly opposed to the idea of 'children´s food´' (I mean, the whole point of cooking is that everyone gets what I feel like eating) but there are times when it's better to bin scrambled eggs with peas than your lovingly concocted frittata with the smoked paprika and expensive prawns...

I suggest you eat dinner with them, then sit down with a cup of tea or a glass of wine with DP. That's what I used to do. Your dp doesn't need to have mealtime behaviour modelled for him!

My mother will be delighted that her sayings are being adopted by another generation!

Others include- "Children should have This Grows Up Automatically tattooed on their foreheads" and, on seeing me offering different toys to a happily playing baby
"For goodness sake, seeker, can't you see she's busy? Don't interrupt!"

No he doesn't, but we enjoy cooking our evening meal and eating it together. It is important to us.

My calm, positive and resolute presence in the kitchen, or at the table with a cup of tea will have to suffice for the dc at dinner time

I really don't know about this idea that one must sit down at eat with the children at all costs. I do agree that having some occasions in the week when the whole family eats together is important. But if the kids have to eat before one parent gets home, I'm far from convinced that it's always beneficial for the other to sit down and eat with them.

Personally, I found that having a quick snack/coffee with them was worse than having nothing. I finished mine too quickly, started getting bored, and ended up homing in on what they were/were not eating and getting on their backs. On the occasions when DH comes in late, it works far better if I make the kids their own tea, then get on with a few jobs, in the same room, and chat to them, but don't actually eat with them. Just seems much more constructive and relaxing all round. Which is, presumably, the point. Not eating together at all costs. But all being in the same room and enjoying each other's company!

lol at your mother's wise words. Do tell her I put a border around it. I may even get it laminated

Rarely restrict ds food intake and have no rules about what can be eaten/when. Since he was old enough to get to the fridge I have let him help himself. Sometimes he will choose cheese, or I find him knawing on a cucumber, or a stump of white cabbage or a mushroom. Sometimes a yoghurt. Whatever.

The only general rule I have is that he has something 'proper' as his first 'eat' of the day, usually he chooses cereal or porridge, but sometimes it's crackers and cheese or a sandwich. He usually follows this with a cuppa and 2 biscuits of his choice. But if he comes across a biscuit or some chocolate left out by the adults overnight, it's not unheard of for him to scoff that. There are always lots of sweets and biscuits in the house, and although I perhaps allow him to eat more of these than some kids, he can take or leave them too.

Decided on this way of being after suffering a terrible relationship with food and an eating disorder following my mum's issues with what was 'good' to eat or 'bad' etc. We are also relaxed about where and when we eat: no real set mealtimes, we eat when we're hungry, nearly always together in some way, and sometimes round the table, but not always, and I always eat my dinner after he is in bed, as I still like to eat later in the evening (post a glass of wine or two)!!!

Result seems to be, no kind of food is really seen as 'bad' and he has seemed to have developed an instinctive balance for himself, if I give him a plate of selected stuff, cucumber, a cheese sandwich, grapes, sliced apple, celery with peanut butter, a few crisps for example, he tends to eat some or all of everything, not just gobble up the crisps and the bread and then leave the other stuff.

I know it's a bit radical and not to everyone's taste, but I suppose what I'm saying is, being a bit more relaxed about food in general is not a bad thing, and kids don't automatically turn into sugar charged trough monsters if there are fewer rules about stuff...iyswim.

I think that you have to do what suits you-one size doesn't fit all. I couldn't possibly do your method, sexbomb, although I can see it works for you. I eat 3 meals a day myself and no snacks-apart from fruit; grazing would depress me no end. They sit at the table for any food and do not help themselves (apart from set limits)-food buying is carefully organised and I couldn't stand finding it had been eaten when I needed it.

Thanks for your post sexbomb. Your approach is quite radical but your point about being more relaxed about food is very pertinent, well for me anyway.

Somewhere along the way I have got my knickers in the most horrific twist about food and mealtimes and I can see how the dc have picked up on it and it has all unravelled into a giant battle ground. I'm so angry with myself for letting it get into this state.

Tonight's dinner was interesting. dd2 ate the most enormous bowl of spag bol, and then had seconds. dd1 ate 2 strands of spagetti. My face was a picture of serenity. I SAID NOTHING (this is an absolute bloody miracle for me).

I am waiting for the I'm hungry to start in earnest any minute now....

Keep us posted Slubber.

{My ds had nothing tonight for second night running. We went to some Bangladeshi friends' house for a fantastic iftar-fast breaking meal- and he did nothing but run around screaming with other kids.Again, we said nowt and expressly asked hostess not to pander ot him as she started doing.}

yes, it's a bit bonkers why for some reason fruit MUST follow the main bit.

Today at lunchtime I just did a spread of stuff on the table (cut up fruit, bread and butter, carrot and cucumber and cold chicken) they gobbled up all the fruit first, then did a bit of bread and chicken and finished with the carrots. If I'd given them carrots first there would have been much disgruntlement. I was prety gobsmacked at how easy it all was.

I can still say well done if they've eaten well can't I? Or all comments good or bad forbidden?

I also can't decide on whether to make them stay sitting at the table until their sibling has finished (previous meal-life rule) or whether when they have finished they can ask to leave the table and go.

LOL you know my mother gave me a book about how to make attractive napkin arrangements. I should fish it out when things start to go badly at the table.

I see what you mean about not commenting when they have eaten lots, yes that's the wrong message. I'm the same as moony's dh, I always clear my plate (terrible habit) and for some reason think that it gives me the green light to pig out on chocolate afterwards. Why I'm not the size of a house I'll never know.

Have not read all of this. Food is the only thing I think I have got right re parenting.We all eat together where possible. I make one meal, but I do take account of likes/dislikes. Will provide an alternative - eg my dd1 doesn't like fish, so when we have fish she has something else.I never make them eat anything they don't want or make stuff they'll hate. We all sit down, they eat it, if they don't it doesn't matter, it just goes in the bin or (more likely) on to their elder brother's plate. Then they have some pudding - if there is any - quite often just fruit/yogurt - then they get down. Three are fantastic eaters, one is a bit fussier(doesn't eat meat or many veg - a non vegetable loving vegetarian)Never give pudding as a reward. Get yogurt/fruit/custard/dairy ice cream/rice pudding and give them a bit of that even if they haven't had any dinner - but not enough to be dinner as well!

I do insist on good table manners but I never comment on what they have or haven't eaten.As long as you make sure there's something they will eat, that they usually sit at the table to eat it and that they eat enough to thrive that's ok. It does all work out - ds2(the fussy one) didn't eat as much as the others for ages and still doesn't eat as wide a variety but he eats a lot better than most of his school friends now.

I think don't comment on how much food they've eaten at all -you have to get into the habit of divorcing emotions from food completely - once they realise it's a way to wind you up, alas, they will do so.

Amazed to hear it is all going so well Slubberdegullion. Full credit to you for initiating such a radical change and sticking to it. Please keep updating.

I ... Must ... Try ... harder ... To ... Remain ... Detached

ooh I did it too!

DH and I had beetroot/feta salad and for the boys I did

noodles
egg fried rice (as didnt have many noodles)
chopped cucumber
chopped tomatoes
chicken satay
chilli sauce

Everything was in little bowls and I told them the new rules were that they could help themselves but if it got to their plate they had to eat it.

I also said we would discuss whether pudding would be given based on whinging/moaning etc!

DS1 ate 6 chicken satay and all the noodles and said it was delicious.

DS2 ate ALL the egg fried rice and cucumber.

We gave them raspberries and peach yog for pudding and DH and I were calm and serene!!

why make pudding a bargaining tool, though?

If the pudding becomes the bargaining tool thenthe DC is picking up that sweet foods are nice and a treat, instead of just a food like any other. I am against labelling 'good' and 'bad'it is counter productivein the long run. I tried everything with DS1,it is a wonder that he has grown up to eat normally! I did bargaining with pudding, serving up the same meal again, bribing, even force feeding.It didn't work. I then had a few years gap so was able to start afresh with DS2. Taking the attitude I provide the meal and they take it or leave it-we don't discuss it, it doesn't get them attention, there are no control issues,no emotion and there is nothing to fight against. I didn't do alternatives or snacks (except fruit) . I tired them out physically. They will eat if hungry-they won't starve. It worked.

Oh well done Gossip, yes the remaining calm is the hardest bit. I was steeling myself last night for a giant melt down from dd1 after her 2 strand spagetti dinner...you know she never said a word. NOTHING. She went to bed and slept just like normal.

As children we all ate together (5 of us plus mum). However, if we were silly, naughty or whiney we would be sent to eat in the utility room with the dogs, theory being if you eat like an animal, you eat with the animals.

WeHi there, it's a pain isn't it.... Have to say that we have a "no reaction to meal time faffing" in our house. My ds thinks that I couldn't give tow hoots whether he eats or not. So not eating or dinner or wanting to get down is dealt with by us saying- firstly, you'll be hingry, then if we get a second refusal, ok well you can get down then. Somtimes later on he will come back to the table to ask to eat his dinner again. Very ocasionaly this will result in him not eating a thing. I promise promise there will be no long term consequences of your kids not eating a meal, even several meals. AND it will break the cycle of meal times becoming such a hell. Ds usualy has what we have had the night before or eats with us, there are a handful of thigns he genuinly doesn't like so I don't give him them. Pudding is not a regular thing so there is no bargaining over this, generaly he would have some fruit or yoghurt if he asks for something else after his dinner. As for the whinging, we say speak in words not whingy voice.... you have to speak nicely to mummy/daddy and ignore anythign asked for or said in the whingy voice.