support thread for people with a baby and toddler finding it tough and not believing that there might be light at the end of the tunnel!!

[exasperatedmum]

I've posted numerous times before bemoaning the fact that my now nearly 3 year old dd is spirited/wilful/challenging etc etc, and drives me to distraction. Am on an emotional roller-coaster every day, and am shattered as 5 month old obviously not sleeping through, and bf every three hours. Every time I post I get a cluster of 'know how you feel' posts but no solutions as there are none, I know!! So I wondered if there is anyone else out there who feels like me, and whether we could sort of help each other through, because believe me there are days when I think I'm not going to make it!! I keep telling myself "She's only two" and "I'm in charge" but feel like I'm being run rings around. Can't decide if my expectations are too high, and I'm just turning into a witch of a Mum, or if I'm trying hard to have boundaries and be firm with a very non-compliant toddler. Baby has reflux so that isn't helping my general mood. I always thought I'd love parenthood, but honestly I find it the most difficult thing I've ever had to do, and would love to have just a teeny tiny break to revive my flagging spirits... but no chance. Anyone out there?!

me too, just joining to save myself a place before sinking back into chaos & exhaustion with a 3 year old a 7 week old.

Wow - looks like there are a few of us in the same boat! Good to see you all! My MN time has been cut back slightly because dd has just stopped having her afternoon nap!! I suppose I've been lucky that she's kept it up for so long, but boy did I rely on it to Mumsnet get things done!! Am trying to get ds into more of an, ahem, routine today... but am woeful at sticking to things so it hasn't exactly gone to plan. Shattered now, and still seems like ages until dh back. Am sure someone posted with three dc's... how do you do it???

I think I posted the question in conception the other day, because crazy as it sounds, I always wanted more children, and as I'm not getting any younger, if we were going to try for a third we'll have to get a move on, but seriously seriously doubting what the 'point' is if I don't enjoy parenting!! Trying to see the bigger picture at the moment, but dd is just so trying, and terrified that ds could become like it too!

Am waiting for the parenting book to arrive (maybe Saturday) and today instigate yet another star chart to reward good behaviour - scant evidence though of any, sorry to report. Lowlights yesterday were dd picking bits of dirt of the soles of her feet and feeding it to ds, and her hitting him with a remote control. The bellowing 'roar' that she has perfected when things don't go her way goes right through me, and her complete lack of regard for any request/instruction - "Put your shoes on?" - "No thanks"... Who is in charge here?!!

Right - so looking forward to getting to know you all and sharing problems and hopefully solutions too!

DD (3) has gone to stay at grandparents for 2 nights (one full day!) for only the second time ever. Think my mum finally realised how close to the edge I've been! In the DD-free day have managed to do so many things, including (shock horror!) actually spend some time with poor neglected DS (5 mo). This respite care (for me) is an absolute wonder. Now have a clean house, a happy baby and a relaxed me. DS actually managed to have a go in the door bouncer, which had recently been banned cos DD kept swinging him into the door frame !
Am bracing myself for the return of the inevitably shattered DD tomorrow, but for now am basking in the quiet. Makes me wonder what on earth I was going on about when I used to moan about how hard it was to stay at home all day with a baby!!!!!

Does anyone else have DC sharing a room? Our two have since Saturday when we moved DD out of our room. Bedtimes are horrible. Any advice please?

Evening all - had a very trying day today and am now shattered! Ds1 is usually in nursery on a Wednesday but we went to a family get-together (all my parents GC in one place which is very rare as one lives 3 hours away).

I thought it might be a good day as DS1 would be occupied by his 4 cousins and DS2 could be passed around to all the adults....wishful thinking!

DS1 spent most of the morning before we left moping round the house (a new behaciour he has suddenly started) following me like a shadow and continually asking me to play with him, then when we got to my sis's his cousins would play with him for about 5 minutes and then get bored so he would mope around some more or deliberately do naughty things.

DS2 spent the entire day in a major grump and would not be cheered up.

Funny that I mentioned to my aunty (who is reception teacher) that DS1 was naughty and she said 'oh he is not naughty, just being a little boy' which my mum says a lot to me. Am now wondering if I have too high standards for his behaviour

Anyway, I think Essexgirl summed it up for me by saying life is a 'relentless treadmill' and that is exactly how I feel I am actually looking forward to going back to work next month which I never thought I would do.

Ok so Ive made it back to adult life - both ds and dd are asleep (she holds her breath...) so thought id do something useful with my time

I can totally sympathise with the "no thanks" toddler response. My dd uses this every time I ask her to do anything. It drives me crazy, why wont she tidy her toys or finish her dinner like other kiddies!!!

Today was looking like being a good day, grandparents were over to relieve me of dd so I can pack for hols tomorrow. Off they went, I managed to get ds to sleep for a nap (very rare when dd is around) and even amanged to pack several bags. Great I thought, mood lifted. Then dd was back. DS was tired, I couldnt get him to sleep and dd was following me round like a shadow, which for some reason really got under my skin. A few rants and raised voices later my stress levels had reached breaking point. I honeslty wonder why I thought having a baby and a 2 yr old would be a great idea. Of course my struggle with it all goes completly unnoticed by everyone else, except fellow new mums. Who think Im amazing for having two, and there was me orginally wanting three, no chance...

Im off to a caravan for four days, with both kiddies and dh. The thought of a holiday should be a happy one, why is it then that Im filled with dread at the thought of whats going to go wrong. Hyper toddlers and new places really dont mix!

Off on holidays too in 2 weeks - really looking forward to it as able to leave ds with his Nana - feel a bit guilty but jeez do we need the break.

It's relentless - dd gets almost no quality time with either me or dp as he is so demanding. And she is so good god bless her.

Anyway enough feeling sorry for myself it won't be long before he's up and about and then hopefully be a bit happier (or is that just wishful thinking??!!)

2.10 year old and 1 year old. Older child taught younger one how to scream in a high pitched voice the other day, and now we have a canon type effect with one screaming then the other screaming in reply!

Having said, it's a lot easier than when I had a six month old and a 2.4 year old! And from nine months old it got a hell of a lot easier.

Today the two of them played in the eldests room for half an hour and didn't kill each other .

I really wish this thread had been around a year or so ago for me

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel, ladies, honestly.

I had a baby from hell and a pretty tricky toddler (2.3 ears between them). but honestly now they are 4.6 and 2.3 it's mainly great. They do fight but they also play together pretty much non stop from the moment they get up until bedtime. Today they were hiding in bushes in the park and I heard the older telling the younger "Come with me into my magical fairy kingdom". They also both tell each other they love each other constantly and are always kissing each other. Dd1 can still be a real handful and too much shouting does go on but a quarter what there used to be and diminishing daily. No thanks to me doing anything better/different just her growing up. A year ago I couldn't have believed I'd ever written this.

Good luck to you all

I don't belong on this thread because mine are now 9 & 10. There are 15 months between them. But I wanted to post because I remember the total exhaustion when they were both babies!

ds1 woke up every 2 hours through the night for milk until just after ds2 was born!

ds2 slept through from day 1

BUT. They quickly got their heads together and devised a system to finish us off. one of them would go to sleep early while the other one stayed up until midnight. Then the one who had slept early woke up at 2am and wanted to play

Between the 2 of them, they made sure we survived on 2 hours sleep a night for about a year!!

I don't really remember much. It passed in a haze of total exhaustion

And now we come to the reason for my butting in . I find myself now with 2 strapping lads. You get through it. There's light at the end of the tunnel (the long, long, long, long, loooooooong tunnel!)

It passes so quickly you wouldn't believe it! It's the most knackered you'll ever be in your whole life but you'll be surprised, you'll turn round one day and realise those toddlers that were responsible for you being so foggy you regularly poured salt into your pint of coffee instead of sugar! are suddenly all grown up and you look at them and think bugger me, when did that happen!

So grab 40 winks every time you can , laugh about it all with your partner (god that helps!) and make sure you do something, any little something, regularly just for you (and your other half does the same.)

jujumaman thank you so much. Was just wondering how I could possibly be so incompetent at something that should come "naturally"!!

Feel guilt most of the time wishing I could go back a year or so..... then he smiles at me (before the temper kicks in)

But I do take hope from people like you that have been there and done it and coming out the other end. So thanks again x

Oh this is the thread for me!!!

I'd write more now if I wasn't so knackered from DD1 (2.6) getting up for 2 hours in the night saying she was lonely and her tummy was rumbling and DD2 (15 months) getting up at 5am.... so instead I'm off to bed. Marking my place here to come and chat when cbeebies is on the girls are busy playing educational and fun games without tearing each other's hair out.

Hecate - bless you, that IS good to hear!

Yorky - would love to know how sharing a room is going. Still not brave enough to try it...

Hecates you are an angel...!!! If I was in that bad a position now I swear I'd throw myself off the nearest bridge (think it's only the night time wine drinking that has saved me)

Hi we seem to be in a similar boat my baby is 6 mths and my dd was three a couple of weeks ago. I also have a ds 5 yrs but in some ways l think he helps ( insome ways) take the pressure off me. It was lovely to hear you been so honest. I go to bed every night and think tomorrow l will be better to them. but its hard. My mum once said to me bringing up children is the most rewarding and disapointing thing you can do and l think she is right. hi five to you we'll be ok.

Oh, this thread is making me even more anxious than I already am, but good to know there are a few of us out there! DD is almost 16m old and her brother is due in 2-3 weeks

As well as all the usual worries about when will go into labour, will ds be ok, why didn't I start cleaning the in-middle-of-being-renovated-house weeks ago etc, etc, my main worry is I already feel I am neglecting dd

She is just such an angel, happy and bright, except when having a go at her new skill of mini-tantrum for few minutes. She has always slept through and has a great afternoon nap. I know it's silly but really worried about not being able to give her as much attention as feel I should when baby here - let alone about how I'll cope looking after 2! Had pretty bad PND last time too with a temporarily head-in-sand unsupportive dh. Dh is now best dad in world though, and back to being a fantastic dh, so feel sure that will have more support early on this time.

Will let you all know in a few weeks.
PS: had a patient few weeks ago who was having her 11th baby and seemed to cope perfectly well with her dh and very little other help, so don't feel can moan too much....

Lucky you dontbringlulu - you're Mum at least understands what you are going through. Although my Mum is absolutely fantastic with the dc's she does seem to judge me (or am I being paranoid??!!)

In the position that we live away from home so my Mum visits for one week out of about four - really lucky for me cos at least I can get the odd night out. But to be honest it's really hard in that she has the patience of a saint and I just don't.....

eeky what a star - 11 !!!!

Anyway as I said earlier to Roomfor2 if your dd is a darling now she will stay a darling - aside from a little disruption. As long as you can reassure her that you are still there for her she will be absolutly fine x

Oh and about unsupportive dh/dp - mine has been an absolute trooper this time around - strange really considering the first was good and the second horrid!!

Anyway think it's more to do with them feeling a sense of responsibility to you, not the dc's

I'm in!
DC1 2 years, DC2 3 months old.

WhatFreshHell, that paragraph you wrote regarding your overriding emotion being guilt etc sums it up for me. And DC1 is a star. I keep getting at him because I'm tired and on a short fuse. Poor wee man.

Currently should be known as shoutymissorinoco.

Oh, I've had a little tear come to my eye reading this!

I'm right there with you all.

Yes Yorky, how is it going with the room share? Ive got a friend who has a 2 yr old, a 4 yr old and a 6 yr old all in the same room and she swears it's fine and they never wake each other up. I don't believe her!!

I'd love to give it a go but am much too scared to rock the already wobbly applecart.

Thanks Hecates. I'm already having lovely moments daily where they play together. They can make each other laugh better than I can already but can't wait til those times outweigh the hard bits.

Now I'm getting worried about rushing things and missing this once they're older!!

3 in one room?!? Eeeek! I couldn't put ANYONE in the room with our 3yo right now. Not sure why, but he has developed into a child who will wake up at the slightest noise! (and we used to make all sorts of noise that he slept through as an infant, so not sure why he's this way now!) I panic every time the baby wakes up and cries in the middle of the night, even though the baby is in our room, as I keep expecting DS to wake up - so far lucky. (although if he hears the toilet flush in the upstairs loo in the middle of the night, he often wakes up )

I know. I struggle to believe her as my youngest wakes at the slightest noise. Learnt to our cost when one night we tip toed in to check she wasn't under the quilt (first night out of a sleeping bag) and 2 hours later we finally got her off again!

Hers have always been like this though so maybe growing up sleeping together they get used to each others noises and cries.

If we coud crack that I'd have a dressing room!

This is the perfect thread for me at the moment. I've been stuck home all week with a sick 3 yr old ds and sick 8 month old and have spent my few spare moments today fantasising about what my life would have been like as a childless spinster. I have even designed my spotless spinster apartmen in my head. I usually go out every day, no matter how tricky, because I cannot stand being stuck at home. But ds is so difficult (nursery told us to get him assessed for ASD- paed said he was just difficult and would remain so) that I can't take him anywhere but the most tolerant child centred places so I feel entirely excluded from the adult world. He doesn't nap either and still wakes at night. DD wakes at least three times a night. I have no family here who can help us out and am overwhelmed by the constant drudgery of looking after two children.

To be fair though, DS is getting a bit easier as he gets bigger but I feel like he is passing on his tricks to dd. So as he stops pulling books off the shelves, ransacking the drawers, having hissy fits on the change table she is starting.

What a whinge - I usually try not to vent about the children but it is a relief. I really hope next year will be easier.

Can I join too? I have a two year old DD (next month) and a 5 month old DS and an 8 year old DD. I find it incredibly hard graft all round. My DC's are really solid and heavy (not fat, just heavy!) and I really struggle to lift them both at the moment, my back's always in pain, my knees and ankles and finger joints hurt and like all of you, am on my feet all day. I'm very lucky in that the DD2 and DS seem to 'get on' so far, but I think it's because I had him when she was so young, she hadn't learnt how to be jealous yet.

But, while she's good a lot of the time,(again, so far!) she is still having screaming tantrums at tea time,(and she has a very loud voice) and getting into everything when I'm trying to get dinner made, make DS's tea and field questions from the 8 year old about homework. It really is just the worst time of day and I really dread it. I try and do things to make it better but none seem to work. There are times like that when I have got the raging PMS as well (like now) where I just want to throw my cold cup of tea against the wall and scream! And that's not like me. I was really really calm until I had kids!!!!

But, I see how quickly the 8 year old has grown (although she is high maintenance herself as it's like living with Liza Minelli - such a show off and tons of energy - and never shuts up) and I know it will get easier. But yeah, God, at the minute, never worked so hard in my life.

Sorry for long post. Am such a blether. (Maybe that's where DD1 gets it from)

Seems there are lots of us in the same boat!!

I think the hardest thing for me to deal with has been the constant tiredness - both of mine are generally good sleepers but I can almost guarantee that I will need to get up for at least one of them every night and DS2 has an annoying habit of starting the day at 5.30! I also seem to have lost the ability to nap during the day which I have always been able to do before - but now, I just can't sleep.

Today, I left DS1 downstairs for literally 5 minutes whilst I went upstairs to get dressed to take him to nursery (as I do every morning)....came down and he had pulled all his books off the bookshelf so I am leaving them and he is going to help me tidy them back us when he gets back this evening!!!