support thread for people with a baby and toddler finding it tough and not believing that there might be light at the end of the tunnel!!

[exasperatedmum]

I've posted numerous times before bemoaning the fact that my now nearly 3 year old dd is spirited/wilful/challenging etc etc, and drives me to distraction. Am on an emotional roller-coaster every day, and am shattered as 5 month old obviously not sleeping through, and bf every three hours. Every time I post I get a cluster of 'know how you feel' posts but no solutions as there are none, I know!! So I wondered if there is anyone else out there who feels like me, and whether we could sort of help each other through, because believe me there are days when I think I'm not going to make it!! I keep telling myself "She's only two" and "I'm in charge" but feel like I'm being run rings around. Can't decide if my expectations are too high, and I'm just turning into a witch of a Mum, or if I'm trying hard to have boundaries and be firm with a very non-compliant toddler. Baby has reflux so that isn't helping my general mood. I always thought I'd love parenthood, but honestly I find it the most difficult thing I've ever had to do, and would love to have just a teeny tiny break to revive my flagging spirits... but no chance. Anyone out there?!

Can't believe I haven't seen this thread till now

Can I help swell the ranks? I have a two year old DD, a 10mo old baby and a very spirited and challenging 7 year old, and until last week I had only had three full night's sleep since DS2 was born last November! I spend my life in a constant state of stress and exhaustion and go from calm to Gordon Ramsay in about 10 seconds flat and am really struggling to enjoy my children at all at the minute

Things seem to have turned a corner on the sleep front though and DS2 is now generally sleeping from 8ish until 6ish (well he has for the last 10 days but I am aware that this can change!!)

Nice to meet you all and hope that even if we can't make it stop, we can help support each otehr when it's tough

DS (5mo) slept until 8.30am this morning ! Trouble is DD (3) woke at 6am as well as in the night with some kind of nightmare!!! Wouldn't it be wonderful if their good sleeps would coincide! Now have a few minutes free as DD has just fallen asleep on the sofa after an almighty tantrum, and DS is only just starting to wake up from his morning nap! Have to get some housework done today ready for visitors tomorrow so expecting a lot of 3-year old tantrums as a result of me not being able to pay attention to her all afternoon.
Maybe I'd better get going with the housework now rather than going on MN!

DD2 had me up 5 times last night. She's been a bad sleeper and frequent night feeder since week 12 but this is a bit much, really hope it's just a growth spurt rather than the start of a new regime. Was so glad that I could pack DD1 off to nursery this morning - DH takes her and I always feel a mix of guilt and relief watching her waving at me from the buggy.

I have been wondering recently... DD1 was so good with almost everything from sleeping to weaning/eating to potty training, and rarely ever has tantrums. Does that mean we're in for a difficult ride with DD2, to make up for the relatively easy time we've had???

Just wondering how many of you have babies that are sleeping through (and what age are they). According to my book (I know, I know, I should throw it away) DS should be sleeping through by now. He is 4 months and wakes at 11-midnight ish, around 3ish then is up from about 5ish.

another just wondering question - do you leave your baby and toddler alone in a room together? Dd1 is 2.3yo and dd2 is 5mo. I tend to take one of them with me at all times - but wondered whether I was being a bit mad?!

jumpy dd2 misses the 3am feed now (thank god!) and is 5mo.

TBH every baby is different - throw away the books

oh - and another question - toddler/junior bed or standard single bed for dd1 (2.3yo)?

Thanks meep - I would be very happy if DS dropped the 3am feed - maybe in the next month

To answer your questions. I never used to leave them alone together at all but I do a little bit now - just if I am popping into the kitchen and close by and if I know DD is engaged in something and unlikely to start prodding the baby.

Also DD is in a toddler bed - I agonised over this for ages but decided a toddler bed was the best way to go as thought she would be a bit lost in a single bed. She loves it and it is very cosy and low to the ground also for the rare occassions where she does fall out (went for a single duvet though).

I should stop reading this thread....i am expecting DC2 in Dec when DS1 will be 2.5 years.......

(Goes to have a lie down and think about happy places)

Oh to Meep - we moved DS into a single bed (2 years old) and he is great with it. Makes more sense financially to get a single bed but if you are happy to splash out on a toddler bed for a couple of years and buy another bed later then it is up to you - as long as they sleep is all that matters!

Have to say DS spent a good few nights enjoying the freedom that comes with being able to get out of bed as he pleased but thankfully that lasted little longer than a week and he likes his sleep so is in bed at 7:30pm until we wake him at 7am. If he wakes in the night we take him back to bed and tuck him in quietly and he goes back to sleep.

Good luck with the move

Feierabend - I have been blessed with 2 good sleepers (touch wood!!!!), but they have been two completely different personalities in the day. DS is chilled out and cuddly, whereas DD has always been a real handful and incredibly independant. When I used to take DD to baby clinic, she would scream the place down, whilst all the other children just sat there quietly (I secretly thought all the other mothers must have them on serious quantities of calpol round the clock )!
Jumpyjan - both mine slept through from 4 months old, one was breast fed and the other is mix fed. However, I know plenty of other mums whose children didn't sleep through until they were approaching one (and beyond!).
Meep - I am in same quandry re leaving both in room (DD 3yo and DS 5mo). Until very recently I always took one of them with me. It reminds me of that puzzle about how to get the fox and the chiken accross the river - I am always trying to think of the best way to get things done! I have recently started leaving them together for a very short while (e.g. to get a quick drink but am always peaking round the kitchen door just in case). DD does tend to be quite rough and heavy handed!
I put DD in a adult-size small double bed when she was 2.4 (as her room doubles as the guest room)and she was fine. I put a safety rail there, but I don't think she really needs it.

CAn I join?
Am actually so tired that can't really type anything legible now, but will do later hopefully.

Ds1 - 26 months.
Ds2 - 1 month.

On the subject of beds, ds1 just climbed out of the cot for the first time yesterday (have othter therad on that somewhere). Arrghh! Do I have to move him to a bed now?

HAven't read all - will try to later. Currently spending nights sleeping with both boys in bed with me at some point in the night - hence my exhaustion.

Should really ask this question on the feeding forum, but maybe you can help. Once in a routine with both DCs, I had always given them 5 feeds a day. DD was 100% breastfed and this worked out fine. DS is another story. I really think he is quite a lazy feeder. When he was about a month old I ended up topping up his feeds with formula, mainly I think cos he wasn't that bothered with feeding, and would rather sleep! I'm still doing that, but recently he just seems to want 4 feeds a day, but I have been trying to squeeze 5 in anyway (mainly cos thats what I did with DD and thats how many feeds it says to do on the formula). Do you think its okay to just do the 4 feeds. I am planning to start weaning when DD starts school in 3 weeks, if he will wait that long, so I guess this may all sort itself out then.

jumpyjan, my older two were sleeping through from about 8 weeks (one FF the other BF), but DS2 is almost 10 months and has only started it in the last week or so.

Agree about throwing away the books.....as my big sisters both said to me when DS1 was a baby and not doing what the book said "DS1 hasn't read the book"

We'll today has been another bad one (no longer green fingers just a big white flag - I surrender!!)

Cant seem to get ds to sleep unless I feed him which is almost every hour. Either hes having his 3mth growth spurt early or Im the new 'mummy dummy'.... In very un-typical fashion dd has been ok today, which is great only my head hurts so much that Ive pretty much ignored he pleas for playtime. Am I a terrible mum for wishing nursery was starting next week?!?!? Really cant cope with them both, feel like Im going to explode some times.

I have to admit to leaving them both together. Very naughty I know, even found ds on the floor after leaving them to nip into the kitchen. Dont think dd droped him but she defo picked him up of the sofa! Did have to bite my tongue at that one.

When we moved house, dd was 20mths and as I was expecting ds we decided to move her out of her cot and into a junior bed. Wasnt worried about extra expense as I knew ds would use it one day. We did have a few nights of dd getting up and exploring her new found freedom - in the form of emptying all her drawers... every morning argh!!! But apart from that no probs, occassional bump in the night but as she cant manage to open bedroom doors yet, we've had no escapes.

If I can remember right, dd was 5mths before she was going from 7 to 7, but that included a dream feed at 10.30 and she was on solids (dd was bottle fed). So far ds, whos breast fed goes from 11 till 6ish, sometimes he manages to last till 9am but that was only cos he fed constantly in the evening. Doubt he'll go from 7pm till 7am for a while, poss when he starts solids as well. Both my babes were large for their age so that might have a bearing on how much they can make last. I certainly didnt try anything special, expect the dream feed, to make them go longer.

jumpy hope that helps .... and so far they are still both asleep yahoo!!

Can't remember who asked the questions but here goes:

Re sleeping through - DS2 is 9 months old and has been sleeping through (now he is doing 7-6.30ish with no dream feed) since he was 10 weeks old (yes I know I am very lucky!!) He did have a habit of waking at 5.30 every morning which was killing me so I did the 'wake-to-sleep' technique recommended by the Baby Whisperer last week and it has worked - he has not been awake before 6.30 since - bliss!!

Re beds - Ds1 had a cotbed at first which we put him in at about 2.2. When we needed the nursery for DS2, we did up the spare room for DS1 which included new furniture so we bought bunk beds for it as the plan is that DS2 will move in there in 18 months time - so full size single bed - DS1 has been absolutely fine in it.

Re feeding routines - both my 2 were bottlefed and were on 5 feeds a day (every 3 hours) until they were about 4-5 months when they suddenly decided to only need 4 feeds a day (7am, 11am, 3pm and 7pm).

Phew - that was a long post!! Hi to daisy and welcome (btw, having met Daisy's "very spirited and challenging" 7 year old, I can confirm he is nothing of the sort - he is a lovely boy!!)

Hmm guess there is not set age that they start sleeping through then.

Wavesthewhiteflag - could you explain what exactly a dream feed is. I hear this all the time but have never quite understood what it means.

Oh god, I hope my DD2 is not of the sort that doesn't sleep through until a year old. I have high hopes for when she's half a year and on 3 full meals a day! Everything would be so much more fun if I got a proper night's sleep every night... even just one feed a night would be great.

Ceebee- thanks for your comments about feeding routines. I think its definitely 4 feeds a day from now on.

Feirabend - I know how you feel. I am hoping DS will be sorted by 6 months too. DD was a nightmare but once she was on solids (and moved to her own room at 6 months) she slept through. So I am really really hoping DS will do the same (if not sooner).

I do feel a bit of me (quite a big bit) is wishing away the next 2 months as I do remember life becoming a lot easier once DD hit 6 months.

Jumpy, how quickly did it get better?

Feierabend - it was instant - couldn't believe it. After 6 months of her waking every 2 hours for a feed I thought she would never sleep through. I put her in her own room and started solids at the same time and she started sleeping through straight away.

I think the biggest factor was putting her in her own room. We did not realise it at the time but we must have been disturbing her.

OK, to give you my experiences on a few questions! (I AM NO EXPERT!!!!)

Non of my DCs slept through until they were FF and fully weaned (ie, 3 meals a day). DC3 (8 months) now has 3 bottles of formula and 3 meals. I think he would maybe need more if BF- not sure TBH.

I leave DC1 and 2 with DC3 for short bursts when I am close by ie, nipping to loo make cup of tea etc. But they have always been good with him and never hit etc. But wouldn't go far as they can still play rough and may hurt him by accident. DC1 (3.3 years) and DC2 (23 months) can play together alone, eg, upstairs when i am downstairs, and are an even match now can stand up to each other. This has probably been the case for the last 5 months. Before then DC2 was a bit little.

I put DC1 and then DC2 in a full size single bed each when the next baby needed the cot, so about 16 months old. They have sides and were fine from day one. I was worried they would keep getting out but if they do they just get books and go back in and then go to sleep when they are tired. They share a room so talk etc before going to sleep.

Sorry some of you have had a hard day. I was good until lunchtime when all hell broke loose for about half an hour. Then put DC2 and DC3 to bed, CBeebies for DC1 and a cup a tea and felt a lot better!

What an amazing support thread, can I join too??

I have a dd 2.6yr
ds just 1yr

I am finding it very very tiring, monotonous at times. I have never felt so drained.
I am struggling mainly with the sibling rivalry. DD hits ds on a daily basis and has doen for a year. I don't see it getting any easier,like people said it would.

I know it sounds like I don't watch them if she is hitting him all the time, but believe me. I can't do anything.
If I turn my back in the same room she is so quick. Also to top it all ds cries ALL the time and has done since birth.
I am struggling a lot, although it is hard to admit in rl as I chose to have them close together so feel I should just get on with it.

Ds has had test after test for lots of health worries and concerns, but thankfully all clear, so far.
Why does he cry a lot, how much is normal?
dd was so easy, I naively thought I may as well be at home with two

I iknow they grow so quick and everything is just a phase but....
Someone metioned the guilt, feeling that neither dc was getting the right amount of attention. I feel this too. Individualy they are amazing.

sorry that was all very me me me

Oh dear no1putsbabyinacorner you sound sad.
Yes it is very tiring and monotonous but then there are lovely and special moments too which make it all worthwhile.
My dds are 23mo and 11mo and dd1 is only just beginning to show signs of jealousy like wanting the toy dd2 has even if it;s a really babyish toy or wanting to sit on mine or dhs lap when dd2 is there.
Dd1 was a good baby but cried for about an hour every day for no apparent reason. Dd2 has never been a crier even though has had horrific excema from a few weeks old. Go figure!
Have you had your ds tested for reflux? And tried colief or infacol?
Re sleeping through dd1 did at 9 weels 7-530 then was ill with a cold and we went to Australia so we did CC with her at 6 months which had her going 7-7 and she has reliably slept through until recently but seems to be growing out of that phase now thank god!

Dd2 started sleeping through at 6-7 weeks but then got her excema and so if itchy can be awake all night and if not will sleep 7-6

no1putsbabyinacorner - when we saw the paed gastroenterologist about ds1's reflux he said that excessive irritability/crying after 3 months with no other explanation is 'likely' to be silent reflux (where they don't puke)... just a thought if you haven't already ruled it out.