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Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

267 replies

Bluebella · 26/07/2009 10:32

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
AitchTwoOh · 26/07/2009 19:19

lol, what would you opinion be if it had worked?

msled · 26/07/2009 19:20

Now? Now, I'm sane again? That it was a coincidence!

(it really is about as scientific as Christian Science, which Palmer idolised)

AitchTwoOh · 26/07/2009 19:22

i make no claims for it other than it might work and can't hurt, but it's strange that this palmer guy isn't mentioned in that link, i think.

AitchTwoOh · 26/07/2009 19:23

mind you, i've had it, i really think it made a difference to my headaches, and my dh has about four weeks pain free after a session (he has scoliosis of the spine and would be on MAHOOSIVE painkillers if he took the standard med advice).

msled · 26/07/2009 19:23

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TurtleAnn · 26/07/2009 21:29

OK, I haven't read the Mumsnet responses yet
But for your post...
Flippin' rude neighbour and if it was me she was living next door to I would make it clear this 'advice' was unwelcome.
NO-ONE has the right to critisise your parenting decisions, absolutely NO-ONE, not even the HV - who sounds like she doesn't really have a full bed of knowledge. Go with what you think is right, you are the Mum, you are NOT a young Mum and even if you were NO-ONE has the right to critisise your decisions.
Rant over

Sleepsense by M.Faure & A. Richardson is a good book.
7am is wake up time in my house and not a minute sooner.
I never leave DS to cry, if he is unbearable b4 7am I do bring him into my bed but refuse point blank to play, I just lie next to him, hold him, say 'sh' and close my eyes to try and teach him to go to sleep. Seems to be working as he generally doesn;t wake b4 7am now.
I do NOT disagree with leaving a baby to cry provided you know: s/he is safe, you know the exact reason for the crying (e.g. overtiredness) and you know that leaving him is the best solution to soothe him as soothing him will only over-stimulate him.

frecklyspeckly · 26/07/2009 21:40

we had neighbours like this waited til my dh serving overseas (forces) active service to bully me over dd's crying.

They were a pair of utter cowards, who got just deserts whe dh rang them from Bosnia to deliver a reply to them.

Now he is not a bad man but - whatever he said- a few days later they put their house up for sale!! (2006)

We now have lovely neighbours who i am sure put up with some weekend noise off us - playing in garden etc but duly we put up with their DIY etc with good grace. IMO thats life in semi or terraced houses. We can't all be in our dream houses and we have to live and be normal!!

Post their phone number and he said he will ring your neighbours too if you like! (joke)

frecklyspeckly · 26/07/2009 21:47

FWIW i think these neighbours are talking rubbish too as unless you are an extremely light sleeper the noise in the next house is only muffled no matter how thin walls are - she needs a hobby this woman..

and a rocket up her bottom... grrr

Chunkamatic · 26/07/2009 22:09

I've only read the first few posts so sorry if i'm repeating anything...

I dont think you are being unreasonable but I'm also sure that you're neighbour hasn't meant to upset you.

The thing is, people do things differently and she mighth not agree with you dealing with his sleeping issues, but that's really none of her business.

If you are able to be consistent with how you deal with his problem then i'm sure you would see a big improvement within a week.

My DS wakes at all hours of the mornings, and whilst he is not crying he often makes a bit of noise banging about and singing. I usually leave him for a half hour or so in case he goes back to sleep, which sometimes he does. I live in a terraced house with neighbours on both sides, neither of whom have kids. Sometimes I have considered the noise he makes in the middle of the night but what can you do? Small kids make big noise at all hours of the day, it's a fact of life. Before having DS a family lived next door with 3 kids and we just accepted that 3 young kids make a lot of noise.

Seeing as you have inadvertentley (sp?) engaged her in this by posting the original note I would go back round there and explain that this is how you are going to deal with things, that you apologise in advnace for the disruption to her and her family but warn them that you will be trying this tactic and hope it will no longer be an issue after a week. Gives her chance to go and get some ear plugs!

And if she makes comment or offers help again when he has a tantrum just explain thanks, but you are dealing with it. After all tantrums are sometimes unavoidable and you dont need the pressure of worrying about the noise the neighbours can here when you're dealing with that as well!

Good luck!

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 26/07/2009 22:56

I don't know how you do it BB - you managed to get your son in the bath/washed and dried in 7 minutes flat, and then 12 minutes later have a child fast asleep in bed.

Can you tell me your secret?

DandyLioness · 27/07/2009 00:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Bluebella · 27/07/2009 07:22

Morning, in response to this:

*I don't know how you do it BB - you managed to get your son in the bath/washed and dried in 7 minutes flat, and then 12 minutes later have a child fast asleep in bed.

Can you tell me your secret?*

Didn't do bath in the end ;-) However generarlly is is Very good at going to bed as I have been strict with this from about 5/6 weeks. He settled really really quickly last night, like I said, sometimes he is a bit more resistant at going to bed, but last night was totally fine!

We have a quick actual bed time routine, I just (usually quick bath) brush teeth , in PJ's, I lie him down, stroke his head, say 'Mummy Loves you, now it's time for bed'. Thats it. I do want to incorporate bedtime story soon though.

Thank you for the replies, Chunkamatic, DandyLioness, frecklyspeckly,TurtleAnn . It is reasuring to know others can understand why I have felt she has 'intruded' a little bit.

DandyLioness - in regards to being over sensitive, I think the issue is, that I wasn't expecting such bold and sharp responses, I haveb't been on a forum like this before, oviously on other forums, people tell you their opinion but not really in the same way, with a bit of a nice edge about it. I think I was hoping for support and poeple that understood what I was going through rather than to be had a go at and called incondsiderate.

Because I dont get this kind of response in real life, it through me back a bit. I really get on with every one! So I am not saying i am perfect, or anything like that, but I am genuinely nice person and I felt totally an outcast/isolated.
Not playing top trumps - just trying to EXPLAIN that my son is very happy and gets on fine at nursery....

Anyway, little woke at 6am on the dot, so that was fine, no problems. He came into bed for 5 mins, then I let him toddle around the bedroom and got up and in the bath at 6.20am, now I am all dressed ready for work but late and I am supposed to leave at 7.30am!!!

OP posts:
Laquitar · 27/07/2009 08:39

Is 5.30 such 'unreasonable' time for a baby to wake up?

OP i am sorry to say this but you sound oversensitive when you make insensitive comments yourself 'i am not an 18 year old mum' etc. I would be offended if i was 18 (but i 'm 45 old bag )

Bluebella · 27/07/2009 09:01

Laquitar - Nooooo I don't mean to sound offensive to young mums....! I am trying to say that I feel that my neighbour may have been judgmental on young mums - she was the one that kept saying "I know it is hard to be a young mum etc...etc..."

I Wanted to TELL her actually, I was 3 years from 30 years old, and therefore not a young mum, I wasn't being derogotory to young mums at all!!! Can't you understand this? I really do feel I have had a hard time, quite a few people on this thread have understood how the neighbour has made me feel, so I know i'm not the only one who would feel intimidated by her behaviour, so I know I am not being funny about that.

Please no more posts about me being defensive - I AM NOT, or if I was a little bit it's because I felt people weren't understanding how I was feeling!! (Patronized, belittled, intimidated, uncomfortable) etc...

YES I do think that 5.30am is too early to get up!!! 6am - too early but I can cope with that, and thats fine . The Ideal 7am.

OP posts:
lingle · 27/07/2009 09:10

Bluebella,

I skimmed this thread last night and thought how polite and restrained you were.

You must be good at your job!

hope the little one sleeps longer soon.

Bluebella · 27/07/2009 09:15

Thank you lingle xx

OP posts:
Laquitar · 27/07/2009 09:16

ok no problem.
Don't get upset, i think you have got some good tips from many posters. You can read again the thread and keep the tips you like and make your own decision

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 27/07/2009 09:44

You were running late for work yet you found time to read and reply on a forum.

theyoungvisiter · 27/07/2009 09:53

sorry just skimmed this thread but IMO (I live in a small London flat with a toddler and a baby) it is not acceptable to do self-settling or controlled crying without consulting your neighbours first.

The easy solution is to ask them when they are going away for a holiday and do the self-settling thing then.

You may find though that your baby is just a natural early riser and that no amount of self-settling will change his behaviour. I don't think that 5.30am is an unreasonable time for a baby to get up. They go through phases of needing more or less sleep and 5.30 is not (on the scale of things) that early.

I speak as someone whose toddler got up at 5am for months while I was pregnant - it was only when I cut out his lunchtime nap that it sorted itself.

theyoungvisiter · 27/07/2009 09:56

and I'm afraid to say, your opinion on what is a "reasonable" time for a baby to get up doesn't really matter, unfortunately it's the baby's opinion and the amount of sleep he needs that is the key. Some children just don't need as much sleep as others.

No matter how much you want him to sleep until 7, he may not ever do it.

Sorry, not trying to put the boot in but it's easy with your first baby to think there is a "solution" to things like sleeping through.

Several years and 2 babies on I am starting to realise that there are some issues that can be fixed and some that can't - and you may find that this is one that can't, so it's easier in the long run not to stress yourself out about it.

Bluebella · 27/07/2009 10:01

Lifeinagoldfishbowl - YES that's obviously why I was running late... I was responding to the recent post.... lol. Not sure why you stated that.

OP posts:
Bluebella · 27/07/2009 10:04

Well I do think that it's an unreasonable to time to get up, and full stop. However he woke up at 6am on the dot today so that was great. Thanks. Post was to get tips / advice on how to encourage baby to sleep longer, not to be told my parenting techniques are wrong. This isn't in the IABU part....

OP posts:
DandyLioness · 27/07/2009 10:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

theyoungvisiter · 27/07/2009 10:18

I'm not saying your parenting techniques are wrong!

Christ everyone is chippy this morning.

I was saying that you may be spending a lot of time and effort trying to change unchangeable behaviour. If your baby has had enough sleep by 5.30am then no matter what you decide, he is simply NOT going to sleep longer.

I was simply trying to make the point that IF after trying these techniques he is not sleeping longer then don't beat yourself up about it - it is easy to think your parenting is as fault when in fact it's just the baby's personality. There is a huge market devoted to persuading us that certain techniques can change a baby's behaviour - sometiems they can, yes, but sometimes it's simply not in the baby's nature to behave in the way you want.

I would like my toddler to sleep 7-7 but he is NEVER going to do it, he doesn't need much sleep, neither does his dad. Now I have accepted that I am (paradoxically) less stressed.

Where did I imply you were doing anything wrong for goodness sake?

Bluebella · 27/07/2009 10:24

theyoungvisiter - wasn't aimed at you particulary, so wasn't implying you were telling me I was doing anything wrong at all.

DandyLioness - purpose of OP was to get support from others who may have had simular experiences with feeling intimaded with neighbours, and any tips on getting LO to sleep later appreciated.

OP posts: