Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

[Bluebella]

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

OP - When I first start Gradual Withdrawl, I go in and start sshing DD or if necessary rub her back at the same time, so that she is laying down and quiet and then the aim is to gradually slow down the back strokes/sshhing and eventually stop and then gradually move away from her cot towards the door and eventually out, with the outcome being that they are quiet and still throughout until you have left the room completely. When you first start it, you may have to wait until your DS is asleep before you leave the room and gradually get to the point where you can leave when he is awake.

Sounds like a faff I know and I avoided it for ages and stuck with CC but when DD was waking in the night and crying for 2 hours every night and CC did nothing after 2 months of trying then I tried this. I eventually got to the point where I could just open the door and sssh her from the dooway for 2 mins and she would be asleep again. Once it got to this point, I felt it had been totally worthwhile putting the effort in. We went from 2 hours of crying to me getting up for 2 mins to sshh her to sleeping through most nights within a couple of weeks. I am desperately hoping that it will start working with the mornings (today was my first attempt) as I am with you - anything before 6am is not morning imho

IREALLYDONTCARE - please take time to read the full thread if you are going to accuse me of leaving baby to cry for 20 mins. I did 5 mins then comfort/patt/shhhh and so on.

Thanks for that info on GR method, PorridgeBrain .

Bluebella, the thread is now 11 pages long. Plenty of people will just read the op and comment, and to be fair your op says ...after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep.

Do try not to get into such a snit all the time

Fark me, 255 posts - you have exceeded any of my previous threads...

Hi Bluebella, I have sympathy for the early morning waking thing. I recruited the help of a sleep consultant in the end and she gave similar advice except that she said if they wake after 5 but before 6, then you shouldn't go in because after 10 hours in bed, if they see a parent they assume it's morning. So she said to just leave until going to get the baby at 6am if he's been crying, otherwise wake him at 6.30am after 11.5 hours sleep. And then go in and say "good morning, good boy etc" and draw the curtains.

So we had about 1 morning of on and off crying for the hour. 2 mornings of the odd grizzle and now occasionally I can hear him shuffling around the cot from about 5.45 but he seems to be happy. And he's still happy and content in the daytime. So my DS responded quickly but I think it can take longer than 3 mornings.

Perhaps if you told your neighbour (with profuse apologising)that it might be 1 to 2 weeks of short term pain for longterm gain. (Provide ear plugs )!

Are you in flats? Or does he have a very loud cry?

Just realised that I only read the first few posts!! Didn't realise there were so many so maybe completely out of date with the post I just added!!

Am v glad it worked for you Elizabeth but I have to say I am sceptical about:

"if they wake after 5 but before 6, then you shouldn't go in because after 10 hours in bed, if they see a parent they assume it's morning."

They KNOW it's morning, parent or not! They are babies, not dummies - even with the best blackouts in the world, they can hear the traffic and the birds and feel the heat of the sun through the curtains.

That's why they wake up - a few centuries ago we would all have been up at this time, it's only a modern fad to pretend it's still night-time even when the sun's been up for 3 hours. Unfortunately no-one has told babies of this fact .

Of course if you can persuade them to sleep longer that's wonderful - but I think your sleep consultant's view is a bit simplistic...

I do feel your pain. My DD is 15mths and she wakes at anything from 5.10 to 6am. 6am is my limit though and so before that we leave her grumbling or babbling to herself - never full on crying though. Sometimes she goes back to sleep for a bit but still wakes at 6. I am hoping one day to be able to sleep in later but I realise that 6am is OK if not wonderful.

She knows when it is too early though and if I get her up before 6, and sometimes even when she wakes at 6 she is grumpy and nothing will please her till she has woken up a bit more or had a little cuddle etc.

Is your DS alert and ready to play at 5.30 because if so you may just have to grin and bear it. It will most likely be a shortlived phase but you may be building up problems by making him associate his cot/ bedroom with being alone and fed up.

I know that it is exhausting but surely one person missing out on sleep is better than you and all your neighbours?

However she does sounds patronising about the tantrum though. Ime keeping calm is the only way to defuse them. Lay him on the ground if you have to and stay with him quietly until he stops and then carry on as before. If your neighbour complains about this she is being totally unrealistic - children make noise and have tantrums and that is just a fact.

Bluebella

I defo don't think you're being unreasonable I think that maybe have spoken to your neighbour to let her know what was happening and to explain it was short term! My LO was doing the exact same thing and I left her not for ages but for 10 mins and she would nod off again 5am is FAR to early to be getting up it's pur job to teach our children good sleep routines and it's your choice to do CC (my HV also gave me the same advice).

I honestly can't believe how unsupportive and down right rude some of the messages are.

P.S When I spoke to my neighbour she told me not to worry about the noise as we are a family and we need to live our life - kind of hits on the head. My neigbour is elderly and was v supportive and understanding - it doesn't last forever.

PPS - Schools are on holiday so the 'poor teenagers who are missing out on their sleep can catch up during the day - it's not going to be forever but as one post pointed out I wonder if they'll be so considerate when they're coming home at all hours - don't think so. Good luck and you sound very reasonable and you're doing a great job. Karen x

I don't think that you are being unreasonable at all - although you do sound sleep deprived and anxious.

I don't have any words of advice but just want to say that I feel for you.

Single working mum with an early waker and an annoyed (annoying?) neighbour is not a great place to be.

Here is someone turning to other mums for advice and ideally some support and is being vilified on a lot of these posts.

All of those who are being negative on this should walk a mile in your shoes and see how they get on.

It will get better - let's hope soon. Good luck.

Bluebella I have spent about 20 mins reading the thread; I'm not sure how much more there is to read, but I've run out of time so I'll say this, and forgive me if it's moved on:

I think your neighbour was completely and ENTIRELY out of order to write back to you as she did, criticising your parenting. You have been acting on the advice of your health visitor to try and sort out your child's sleep problem and I think you need to be clear with her that that is what you are going to do. If there is a week that it would be better for you to do this, such as their holiday, then by all means she can tell you because you want to be a good neighbour but you are afraid you do still need to act on that health care professional's advice.

Then do controlled crying, to the letter. Get whatever support you can in for yourself for that week, even if it's your ex to open the doors in the evenings in case she pops round to check AGAIN whether you're not coping (patronising cow btw).

If CC doesn't work in 10 days, go back to the HV / GP and ask for a referral to a sleep clinic. State the problems it's causing you in your everyday life and how threatened you have been made to feel in your home because of it.

Stick to your guns. You are right, both in what you're trying and also in seeking support here in that.

Best of luck, keep us posted xxx

Buy your neighbours a couple of sets of earplugs. It's only twenty mins of noise in the morning fgs!

What about putting baby to bed a little bit later?

bluebella - complete sympathy with your little one waking up too early and hope you work it out with your neighbour.some people seem to come on this site angry, read too much between the lines, disect every word you write and then use it to try and tear you apart, even though they don't know you or your situation at all, but think they do after reading a small thread then you get the ones who jump on the bandwagon as they can't think for themselves. they are missing the point that you sound like a very tired mum who is trying very hard, have seeked the advice of a hv and is dealing with a neighbour, who maybe in her own way, is a bit fed up and trying to help, but going about it completely the wrong way.on the plus side, there has been some really good advice given as well.all the best

Hi all,

Thank you for the supportive messages.

Just a little update?.

I am scared to let little one cry at all in the mornings. He is now waking up between 5am-5.30am, (crying, quite loudly), and because I am too frightened to offend the neighbour I am scooping him up, and trying to take him into bed with me. Mostly he is unsettled in the bed and does not go to sleep. Some times he is happy to toddle in the bedroom for 5 mins. Sometimes he does doze in the bed with me for half an hour. Mostly he just is so unsettled and grumpy because he is still so tired, and doesn?t really know what he wants, but really he needs to go back to sleep.

When I have no choice but to take him downstairs, he may be happy with that for a little while, but he is terrible grumpy and tired, because he needs more sleep.

Before, when I used to let him cry for 20 mins (periodically checking and patting I should add) he would USUALLY go back to sleep till 7am (longer on my days off work) as 7am would be the latest I could get him up on a work day.

He DID used to be loud for 20 mins (approx), but at least I would usually get him back to sleep till a reasonable hour.

But getting up at 5-5.30am is absolutely killing me (and yes I do go bed never later than 10pm, mostly 9pm!)

I am not sure what to do now? basically if he wakes up at 6am, that?s fine, I will start my day then, no problem at all. But now, I think its got even more habit that as soon as he wakes, he expects me to go and get him and get him up for the day!!

This is a total nightmare!!! I have taught him now the complete opposite of what I was trying to do!!! I?ve also been giving him milk at 5.30am ? anything to try to get him not to cry, but stay in bed with me a bit longer. Before the neighbour complained, I would never take him into bed ? I didn?t want to get into that habit.

What can I do to sort this out?

I saw neighbour the other day and she said she is going to corfu soon, so shall I check when she is going and try CC again?

Thanks to all those supportive and understanding posters!!!

You, poor, poor thing. You have these bloody early mornings to contend with, a grumpy toddler, and the feeling of being watched. That must be very hard.

I think some people have been a bit unfair to you. I suspect you have copped it a bit because some people simply do not (as is their right) approve of Controlled Crying.

I also had a very early riser (4.45 some mornings !), but he was my first, so I never attempted CC in the mornings (I subsequently used it in the night with DS2, and it worked very quickly, going in a regular intervals).

I don't know whether it would have worked in the mornings (I kind of suspect not - to them it IS morning).

However, you are clearly at the end of your tether, so I don't think it would do any harm to try again while the neighbour is on holiday.

Failing that, crash out on the sofa while he watches a DVD (Teletubbies got us through ....)

As someone said before, I think a fortnight would be more than enough time to see if this is going to work.

I'd be really interested to hear how you get on.

did she complain about the crying before you put the note through? If not I think I would be inclined to ignore her a bit until she actually complains again. Or bangs on the wall which is quite common in terraces or semis. (friends neighbour is a dab hand with the brush - her kids are really loud.) Also point out that when you have got this cracked it will mean a better nights sleep for everyone.

I think she is being a bit precious as you only have one child and you are out all day so it only leaves the evenings. If you had a couple of young kids and stayed at home she would really be aware of you. Good luck