Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

[Bluebella]

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

If you honestly believe its better in the long term to deal with this sleep issue now, then you need to go ahead and do it and smooth things over with your neighbour by explaining what you are doing and why.
NO point whatsoever in doing the opposite of what you believe is best for your DS just to keep your neighbour happy. Both you and DS will then be unhappy and resentment will build up.

If it was me, I'd pop round to the neighbour and say something like..

'I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot and that DS has been disturbing you. I've got the feeling that I've given off the wrong impression and that you might feel I am struggling with DS and his crying/early wakings? I just wanted to reassure you that I am coping fine, we are both very happy generally! DS has just got into the habit of waking up very early. Unfortunately this means he gets grumpy and cries more through the day due to still being tired.
After chatting to my HV about it I am positive that the best thing to do for him and everyone else is to stick with the patting and shhhh'ing him in the mornings so that he gets a proper sleep until 7am and is then happier all day.
I know it must be a real pain for you to get woken so early and its a real pain that the walls ae so thin, but I really do think that it will be better in the long run to have a week or two of a bit of crying in the mornings to get into the position of DS then learning to sleep longer by himself. He'll be happier and not over tired, you wont get disturbed and I wont be getting up quite so early! Luckily its the school holidays so by the time your children go back to school we'll all have been getting a good nights sleep again for some time!'

I would try not to be paranois about what the neighbour thinks.

I bet if she came on here and posted a thread along the lines of "the woman next door lets her child scream from 5.30 every morning and my own children are now getting exhausted" or somesuch that she would get told to have sympathy for her neighbour and to go round and offer to help in case you were struggling.

She may not be doing it in the most tactful manner and you are very conscious of the noise and keen to point out that you are not struggling so the communication is not going to be the easiest of conversations. But it sounds to me like she is doing her best what with offering babysiting and so on.

FWIW mine were terrible sleepers compounded by early rising and it did get better eventually. Especially when the mornings get darker.

Bluebella - big sympathies on the early waking. DS (11 months) has been waking between 5 and 6am since starting to sleep through in April. It's pretty crap.

Some good advice on here. Agree with allaboutme and others before - set a limit of a week, two weeks, whatever to try to get him to sleep longer. Warn your neighbour. See if it works.

But also agree that waking early is pretty usual for babies and toddlers at this time of year. Most that I know are doing it at the moment - some go back to sleep with a feed or being taken into bed; others, like my DS, don't. From what friends say, it tends to get later as the morning's get darker (it is getting later for us already). It's very crap but sometimes it's easier to just get on with it! For the first few weeks I was in tears everyday; now, I don't even really feel tired. I still loooong for the dy that he sleeps past 6.30 though! If he's only been doing it for a couple of weeks, it might just be a short phase anyway.

Re: your neighbour. Everyone with older children has wisdom and 'support' to offer - mothers and MILs especially! And sometimes they seem to imply that you're not doing a good job. I just ignore it and nod politely. (But I can also understand it's difficult for them to be woken early regularly - my DS was crying from teething at 5am this morning and I heard my neighbours get up and felt very sorry for them!)

Good luck.

bluebella I think one important bit of advice which you seem (understandably) to not want to hear is that:

some kids won't BE trained
Some kids WILL get up at that time and there is really nothing you can do about it
Keeping on saying "6am is reasonable" will make not one iota of difference if your baby is unable to sleep past that time and WON'T be trained out of it

It's a hard reality but it's one ALOT of people live with for a while and I think you do need to consider this possibility

though of course I hope your ds comes round to your way of thinking soon!

slowreading - her DS WAS responding to the training though.
He was crying for 20 mins at 5/5.30am and then sleeping until 7am.

20 mins crying in early am preferable to getting up at 5am AND grumpy overtired baby all day imo

I think the OP said that the going back to sleep was only occasional though

I still don't think I would have it in me to let a baby cry for 20 minutes knowing that I am disturbing my neighbours; yes, I would if I'd explained to my neighbour that I was 'sleep training' for a specified time but not just on an on-going basis. I just couldn't do it, personally.

and there are other ways of not having a grumpy overtired baby in the day if they're an earlier riser, eg give 'em a nap

Agree with slow-reading.

5:30am isn't really that early with a toddler. Particularly as Bluebella says she is usually in bed for 9pm.
Not worth the hassle and upset for the sake of half an hour imo.

Read first page of posts- but no i do not think your being unreasonable at all. We had some really tough times with my Ds and sleeping. We don't get on with my neighbours (from before DS was born) and they used to bang on the walls in the middle of the night!

To be honest if i had received a note back like the one you did i would be cross (apart fromm young mum bit i would be flattered!! ) in all seriousness though she will have to get over it, fair enough if it went on for months but by making you too scared to see through your sleep training she is only making the problem continue for longer.

Good luck.

I agree, DandyLioness, the OP has been very coy about how long the CC has been going on for.

Not being coy. Wasn't my main concern, as previously said, was looking for any one in similar situation to empathise/relate, also to get tips on how to get DS to sleep longer.

The thing is, it hasn't been every morning as such. Some days DS wakes 5.30am, some days 6am, some days 6.30am, sometimes (rarely) later than this, however unusual.

So the CC in the morning hasn't been going for a 'set' time, as one day may be better than the other.

Then, prob about 2 weeks ago HV advised me, just do not get him up! She suggested to dictate the time that he got up and begin CC if he wakes before 6am. I really can't put a finger on when exactly it was, Id have to klook at my diary to see what date HV came to visit, I estimate a few weeks.

Can you ask your neighbours if they are going on hols at all in Aug and if so, do the sleep training when they are away?

Nah I think I will just hope he continues to wake up at 6am and just get up with him.

Just out of interest - some of you said that I should get up at 5.30am as that is reasonable time to get up with a 15 months old. please could you tell me what time you think would be the earliest that is reasonable to get up. For example if he wakes at 4am, do you think I should get up with him? Or do CC to go back to sleep. Thanks

If he wakes at 4 I would get up for half an hour and then put him back down - it's what I used to do with mine. (God bless my teletubbies DVD.)

lol!:-)

You see, I think, if he wakes up at 4am, thats DEFINATELY still the night time, and I plan to let him cry a bit with comforting because I know he will still be tired at that time, and he should go to sleep again pretty quickly. I wouldn't get him up at that time. Just wondered what others views were.

Whatever works! It's hard when they're up in the night and you're working.

Yes definately is. Cool.

TBH I think his getting up sounds pretty darn good for a 15 month old!

I mean, yes, I had (hated) "friends" whose kids slept in till 7 or even 8 every single bloomin day BUT my ds and other's simply didn't no matter what. 5am onwards at 15 months ish getting later as the years went on.

I would have killed to have a kid who 'somtimes' sleeps till 6 or 6.30am

KNOW this is not what you want to hear but tbh your situation is so very common

though of course I do understand that being a lone parent this is relentless for you so I understand your wish to train him out of this. I just say the above to put it in a bit of context for you

and imvho if he's not got it in a few weeks he's not ready yet. It's too long for him to be crying (IMO) and too long for your neighbours to be woken at that time with extended crying.

I think if they don't get it in a few days they're not likely to - based on my own and friends experience only of course

OP - have you tried the Gradual Withdrawl technique? I found at this age this was far more effective than CC and is neighbour friendly .

My DD has always been an early riser (6-6.30) but has been shouting for Mummy since 5am for a few weeks now. I have been in and done the Gradual Withdrawl thing this morning and she's not back to sleep as my DD doesn't do going back to sleep but she's quiet and hopefully resting a bit. However, in your case it does sound like you have a DC who could be persauded to go back to sleep so you you may just need a different approach for the sake of the neighbours.

I understand that its a pain having to adjust your approach for the neighbours but you can understand why they are not happy. TBH if you had a second DC who was crying, I think you would find you would try and find a technique that would avoid waking up the older one or give in gracefully

Good luck

One other suggestion that worked well for our dd when she was around your boy's age:
When he wakes up too early, go to him with your eyes half closed,
say something like 'shhh, it's night time, back to sleep' and give him his favourite teddy/soft toy. Then leave him to it.

Well done for sticking it out on MN, btw!

Have you had another chat with your neighbour yet?

This morning LO woke 5.30am....

Scooped his straight into bed with me. Wouldn't sleep, but lay there for a biut with me. Quite fidgity.

Then wanted to get off the bed, let him toddle around bedroom, while I was still in bed. Then he came over to me lifting arms to come up on the bed. Lay with me a bit, being a bit wriggly but didn't go back to sleep. THEN back down again, Then back up.....

This went onto 6.30am. No crying though, no sleep for either of us past 5.30am, but at least we were quiet and I got to lay in bed a bit longer.

Please can some one explain Gradual retreat? Thanks

Bluebella - sure you have thought of this but my Ds started to wake early, i gave him a slice of toast after his dinner, and he then slept in a bit later. Also recently started to wake early again and i realised i had been putting him down in just a vest and grobag as its been warm but had not taken into account its got a bit chillier, put him in a babygrow and is now sleeping till 7!

CUrrently he is in a duvet. He used to be in Grobags. When he stays at his daddy's he goes in a grobag. Maybe I should put him back in grobag.... this could help as maybe he kicks thin duvet off and gets cold!:-D

Will try this and report back tomorrow!

DS had tea quite late last night as I was back from work late, so I am pretty sure he was quite full up though.

I am late to this thread and have only read the OP but I agree with the neighbour.

I'd love love love my similar aged daughter to get up at 5.30am.

I think you are expecting too much of your child. Just get up FFS and don't be lazy.

Leave the kid to cry for 5 minutes at the most, but 20 minutes , now THAT is cruel.

It's normal. They grow out of it.

I'm sure you're a good mother overall and it is hard, especially on your own but your HV is talking sh*t and I doubt she meant 'leave the baby to cry for 20 minutes'.