Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

[Bluebella]

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

actually having read your OP, I don't find it sounds that unpleasant after all. Sounds a bit overwhelmed.

Well, first of all as so often said on MN, the early waking with crying is a phase and it will pass. That, or the nights will start to draw in! He'll soon be of an age where he can get up himself and come through to you or he might just start to sleep longer as he eats more and sleeps less in the day. Honestly it will pass.

In the meantime, given the thinness of the walls, I think you'll have to give up on the idea of getting ds going back to sleep at 5am at the present - he sounds hungry and raring to go - and anyway you'll be so stressed at the noise disturbing your neighbours you won't be able to go back to sleep anyway.

I too would find the neighbour well-meaning but intrusive and don't feel you have to justify yourself to her. The letter is a bit off tbh but maybe she is sleep deprived and reached her limit?

Bluebella - whilst I don't think you sound unpleasant, you do sound like you are unwilling to take on board anything that has been said or any advice/support offered by your neighbour - "Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30" What difference does this make.

SO I must agree with ZZen's comment

"well you do seem very sure that you are in the right and your neighbour is nosy, interferingand should shut up and put up with things"

hi i have the same thing. ds has just started sleeping in his cot in the past month or so and some mornings he wakes v early but with leaving him for a few minutes he settles back to sleep. i too was worried about him wakening the neighbours but i figured it wasn't going to be for long and now he sleeps all night until 7/8am!! i was worried about this as i was brought up in a detached house but when i bought my own i'm was in a semi and am always worried that we're too noisy for the neighbours! i did mention it to them one day and they said not to worry they can't hear a thing. not sure if they were just being nice but i still stress.

it's hard in a small house, but it will be better for you in the long run if this is what you want to do. hth.

Well, I think your neighbour sounds extremely interfering and pushy and cannot understand why you are allowing her to boss you around.

Your ds IS allowed to cry in his own house and if your neighbour doesn't like it, I'm afraid that is tough luck. That's one of the things about living in a semi or a terrace and not a cottage in the country with no neighbours.

Go back to the sleep training your HV suggested, stick with it for a week or so, and hopefully ds will get the message. If your neighbour complains, state very firmly you are doing sleep training on the HV's advice and while you are sorry for the disruption, it should be over very quickly. It's your house, your rules inside your house.

Btw, has anyone mentioned a bunny alarm clock? So your ds has a visual reminder that it's not time to get up?

hiya, does his bedroom wall go onto your neighbours wall? if so have you tries soundproofing it? i know it sounds mad but you could perhaps get some egg box trays ans stick them to your wall as they apparently are good for those purposes. I sympathise with your early riser.

Bluebella

I think she is being v unreasonable! Does she not remember what it was like when her girls were young?!

My son is 14 months (but thank god sleeps v well) but I would definately leave him to go back to sleep once checking he was ok etc. It won't take long for him to get the message so in the long run everybody will be better off!!!!!

FWIW I don't think its cruel at all but we did controlled crying with our son from 6 months and he learnt to settle himself within a week. But I do understand some people think this is an a par with child abuse .

Agree with the blackout blind idea.

I am 24 and also don't considor myself a "young mum" as am married, planned to start a family, university degree, good jobs etc but get dirty looks ALL the time..... even get ppl asking me if DS was an "accident"!

Maybe you look younger than you are - which can only be a good thing!?

I sort of agree with you Edam, but only way that living all squahed together like we do in terraces and semis can work, is if everyone shows a bit of consideration and understanding.

My own take on it would be to tell the neighbour, perhaps by letter, in very firm terms that you have been advised to do this to stop the early morning wakings permanently, which is a benefit for her family as well as hers. So you are going to stick to it strictly for ten days and you apologise in advance for the sound of crying. If there is no major progress in that time then you will accept that something else needs to be done and will make sure he does not disturb her household in the mornings. And during the daytime you will consider banging on the wall if your DS has a tatrum harrassment. FFS can she not remember what it is like having a toddler?

scared of love - It makes me feel intimidated because if DS makes a crys, be it in the day-time or night, I feel uncomfortable and feel pressured to make him quiet, stop crying. Obviously I would want to make him stop crying regardless, however in my experience with my DS, when he tantrums, he just get's more infuriated if I try to give him cuddles/food/drink, and my son just needs to be left to cry out the tantrum - nothing you can do will stop him tantruming. I feel that she is listening and thinking 'Oh my goodness what a bad mother leaving the baby to scream like that'. This is why her behaviour has made me feel intimidated.

Heated: Thanks for your understanding, it is nice to see that you understand how I am feeling.

Lifeinagoldfishbowl - The reason I wanted to make her aware that I wasn't a 'young' mum, is because a lot of her comments were regarding 'I know what it's like to be a young mum etc...', I found this insulting because I am a very competant mother (although first time so not a perfect mother, I don't know it all of course!!) but what I mean, is I am quite confident in how to handle my son. I know how to look after him, I know what he needs (most of the time!). SO, I felt it was important for ME to let her know that I am not a teenage mum (some people say I look young, a bout 18!!) so I wanted her to know that I was a mature adult professional, so as her not to think I was struggling in any way if that makes sense. Yes - I am sure she is being quite 'nosy' I dont think thats the right word, but I feel, she is perfectly in her rights to tell me that the noise is too much, however not OK to tell me that my parenting techniques are 'cruel' to my son....!

Nicem - thats great that your little one sleeps so well now - here's hoping my DS joins him!

Edam - Thanks you for empathising because you can also see how the neighbour is being a little pushy. I have heard of the bunny alarm clock and will be looking to get one, he may be a bit young to understand at the moment though?

Nappyzoneisabeetrootrunner - both of the bedrooms in my house back onto her house... so its a bit of a no win situation... Not heard of the egg-box idea before - sounds interesting!:-D Thanks for support

sorry only just seen the other two posts by PDR and Biblelots - will read now

I think it is not 'just one of those things' that your neighbours are woken every morning at 5.30am.

It's like allowing them to deal with the consequences of your having a baby

It is 'one of those things' IMO that as the parent, YOU shoulder the burden and not allow others to deal with the consequences!

However, I think compromise is needed on both sides but I think they need to know there's a time limit. I'd set a limit that YOU are happy with for trying this sleep training. A week more, a month? But let your neighbours know you won't let it go on forever. If he's not 'trained' after a month then he probably won't be

Some kids won't BE sleep trained. I feel your pain because I have been there with a 5am onwards riser. No amount of training would change him I'm afraid. I hope your ds responds better. But in the end it was a case of simply getting up with him.

It does NOT mean he'll never sleep later by the way: my ds has risen later as he's got older naturally. So don't put pressure on yourself about bad habits etc. Kids aren't really like that so much as people think imo. They change and their needs change all the time - they don't KEEP the same habits!

how old are your children Bluebella?

When dc's used to wake that early I'd take them into bed with me for another hour or so and they'd fall asleep again. I don't think it's something a neighbour has to put up with because they live next door to a small child .

babies cry - the unfortunate by-prduct is that you obviously have little sound resistance in your walls

thats no either of your faults.

its the school holidays - so do your experiment trying to leave him to cry. IME teenagers can sleep though quite a lot.

stop explaining yourself to her - its like apologising - which gives her the uper hand

just leave her out of the whole thing

this isn't LONG TERM

obviously if this was a long term situation, you should go to sleep earlier and wake up earlier.

but it isn't.

this is controlled crying with an aim of an extra hour.

perhaps to lessen the noise as a practical solution - you could get a camp bed in his room and then you can shush him quicker?

just a thought

Hiya,

My boy is 15 months old.

I wouldn't really have a problem if he would come into bed with me at 5.30am for an hour-but he never wants to settle, he just cries and won't fall asleep in bed with me.

I used to be in a detatched house Mrs Jammi, what bliss not having to worry about the neighbours :-D x

Yeah - I think 6am is the earliest acceptable time to get up or there abouts, I think anything earlier is still 'night time'.

So here's hoping he starts waking around that time at least.

Last night he stayed at his daddys house - he woke up about 6.15am. SO that is OK I suppose, just hope it continues tonight/tomorrow morning.

x

Tough one. I live in a flat and for a long time my ds was a terrible sleeper. He is 13 months now and has only for the last week or so managed to sleep through the night. I did not leave him to cry when he woke up, partly because I didn't like the idea of it, partly because it wouldn't have worked anyway, and partly out of courtesy to my neighbours. And he used to wake up 5 or 6 times a night, so there were plenty of times I wished I could have just left him Imagine if it was you the other side of that wall, listenign to a baby cry. They can't do anything about it, but you can. And yes, it does seem brutal while it lasts but 5.30 is not hideously early for a baby so young to be wakign up. Leaving him to cry with no reassurance will not solve this imo, and I don't think your neighbour has been rude, she waited until you popped a letter through her door, then posted one back saying that actually the noise was disturbing her.

Is something disturbing him,we used to have a very noisy milkman about that time and was so pleased when the neighbour cancelled,Have you got blackout blinds, it may be too light.
I never used to do before 6am, it would kill me for the rest of the day,hopefully he'll improve with time. Have you tried leaving a book or a toy in his cot for when he wakes,even if it gave you an extra 10minutes.Good luck, you sound very nice and thoughtful in your posts but I don't think writing in the first instance was the best idea, better to have waited to see if they commented or spoken to them face to face, easy to say in hindsight though.

She sounds as if she is trying to be helpful, albeit in a slightly over-bearing way. However, I can understand that she'd be a bit overbearing if she's going through a sleep deprivation that she doesn't know when is going to end.

I'd take her up on her offer of babysitting frankly. (Obviously, as long as you're happy her teenager is responsible and nice) Anyone offers to babysit for me, they get their hand bitten off.

I'd also say that I'm trying sleep training for a week/ fortnight / month (personally I think a fortnight would be my limit, most babies get into a new habit after a week or so and a month sounds like flogging a dead horse tbh) and that if it doesn't work, you'll give up and just start going to bed earlier. But she has to bear with you for that week/ fortnight/ month and thanks for the babysitting offer, could her DD do next Friday?

i agree completely with littlelamb. she didn't come banging on your door, you wrote to her and she responded with a 'yes, it is a pain', then she offered to help you out because she thinks you're struggling. aren't you struggling? i would be if i was on my own and had a baby who was awake and raring to go at that time. i'm sure she very well remembers what it was like, and is trying to help you out.

can't you give her a break and take the baby into your room, if that's off the party wall? and fwiw i wouldn't leave a baby to cry for 20mins, i personally couldn't stand it.

I think it is fairly normal for a baby of that age to wake at that sort of time, I know quite a few babies of that age and many of them regularly start the day between 5am and 6am.

Some babies/children/people are early risers, some grow out of it, some don't. I don't really think I would be too happy if I was your neighbour to be honest, they have said that they can't deal with it any more - how long have you been doing it for?

btw dd is 11 months and has been waking at that time recently, it's so light. me or dh just get up and let her mooch about with her toys on the floor of the front room while we doze on the couch. not ideal, but it's not fair to dd1 or dh (or me, whoever's turn it is) to wake the entire household.

has he got a treasure box? it's a collection of old tat, basically, but very absorbing for wee ones to play with.

Has the 20mins+ of crying already been going on for more than a week then? You say it had been going on then you posted your note, she replied a few days later.

I think you're neighbour's being as nice as she can be about it.

At that point in the morning I used to collect DD and put her into bed with me and we'd be quietly snoozing for the next couple of hours.
But I understand that might be a bit namby pamby and "rod" "back" etc for some.
But because that's what I did, I would find it upsetting to listen to a baby cry through the walls every single morning for 20mins or more.