Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

[Bluebella]

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

princess toadstool said the later her child goes to bed, the earlier he gets up, not the other way round. i find the same, sleep begets sleep ime.

i can't really see how you think you're not being defensive btw, given that you're threatening a flounce over one person pointing out (not that unreasonably tbh) that you didn't really seem that interested in people who disagreed with you.

I'm going to allow myself a little snigger at you going back to Netmums. Sure, they may be 'nice', but what's the point of asking for opinions if all you actually want is people to agree with you? I don't think anyone's been nasty. Of all the advice on MN that I have had over the years, some of the most valuable has been the stuff I didn't want to hear. And I'm grateful of it.

Oh my god, I am sitting here is absolute shock about all this. Really, with tears in my eyes, I feel totally gutted that I have got this type of response from some people.

Its not that I don't want to hear people advice, can no one understand that?

This is a disgrace to parenting forums, all I wanted was to have a talk about this with other mums, not to be slated... this is very very sad.

Sorry I misread the bit about going to bed later.

I don't understand why people are posting in such a mean way!! It's beyond me.

I've been posting on netmums for 2 years now, and on this site a few times. I just can't believe what people are saying to me.. so weird to be so agressive about this topic.

Being a mum doesn't mean I have to agree with everything another mum thinks.

We are not being mean. You are being over-sensitive.

Go back to Netmums if you wish. But this isn't about what internet forum is best for you. It is about you being able to co-exist with your neighbour.

look, i know you're tired and a bit freaked out by the neighbour and everything but i really don't think anyone is being aggressive, are they? you surely see that's a bit of an over-reaction, don't you? i'm not sure what you wanted from us, only one person has posted anything that might even remotely be described as nasty. what would you rather was said?

is it possible that this lies at the heart of your recent dispute with the neighbour? you said that you'd have been fine if she'd said 'could you try to keep it down in the mornings?' but she didn't. nor are we responding in exactly the way you want, and now you're getting upset. i don't really understand, tbh.

I don't feel tired!! it's not about that ffs!! I never once mentioned in this thread that I was tired or sleep deprived.

I go to bed about 9pm most nights. I get up early because I am a working mother and I have to go to work and get myself up and dressed and my son also.

It's about teaching my son to get up at least 6am.... because that is a reasonable time.

i'd be tired if i was shushing and patting at 5.20am, i perhaps was projecting there, apologies.

but reasonable time... according to who?

Bluebella - before you go back to Netmums, you could try searching the archives here for threads on early waking in toddlers. There have been many of them and there's bound to be some good advice on there.

My dc are older now and I sleep trained them when they were about 9 or 10 months using the controlled crying method advocated by Richard Furber. As I recall, this is useful for helping a child get off to sleep, or get back to sleep in the middle of the night. But it really isn't helpful or effective when dealing with early wakings.

I know so well that heart sinking feeling when you look at the clock in the morning and it says 5 something not 6 something. To most adults 5 in the morning is still "the middle of the night" but to many many toddlers it simply isn't and the parents just have to suck it up and maybe go to bed earlier to compensate.

Sympathies. I hope the archived threads give you some new ideas. If controlled crying hasn't provided a solution or at the very least a marked improvement within 3 or 4 days then you should give it up as something that is not going to work for your ds. To persist with it indefinitely would be cruel imho.

It is a reasonable time for an adult, pretty normal for small children.

BB, dry those tears, calm down!
This is Mumsnet - it's largely unmoderated (unlike NM, afaIk) and there are quite a few people with certain views on sleep training.
Views that are similar to your neighbours, I am afraid!

Having said that, the advice here hasn't been all that bad.
Try and ignore the tone. Look at the content.

Look, you are doing a great job, it's perfectly understandable how you feel and it's to your credit that you actually care about your neighbour at all.

The value of many of the posts here is that you get an insight into what your neighbour might be thinking!

Armed with that knowledge plan your next move along the lines of what edam said.
Good luck!!

I just feel like shit because I was obviously upset about this and could have done with some reasurance and kindness. Yes, I want to hear every ones opinion, but why not in a nice friendly way?

it's light at 5.30am, we're all supposed to be up with the light and down at dark, it's in our dna.

Have some ((())) if it makes you feel more at home
I don't see what you are takign offense to? I really don't. But if you are so easily offended, I guess MN really isn't the place to you

oh stop it, we've been perfectly friendly and constructive. stop being such a control freak, that might help you deal with a lot of things in the coming years.

sorry you feel like that Bluebella - it's not at you personally - no-one knows you here like in RL-though i know i have felt like that (had a thread once in AIBU about Uggs of all things and got soundly told I was BU - was pretty shocking to me )

There has been loads of good advice on here and am sure most of us sympathise with an early riser.

That is the trouble with asking for advice when you are a mum - people will give it!

Thank you DaddyJ, thats a good point about getting an insight into the neighbours mind.

I hope I posted in a nice friendly way .

Aitch have I told you lately that I love you

Some children never wake after 6am, it is just the way they are made. My eldest would wake between 5-5:30 and even now she is up at 6.30am every day of the week (she's 20) She never lays in

Used to be very annoying, especially as her siblings never woke before 7;30 and one never woke before 10am!

My saviour was videos, if I stuck Jungle book on, I got another hour or so

People are just trying to say there may be nothing you can do, no one's being nasty

I did controlled crying with my ds's. With one it worked, my other ds just wasn't having any of it. I don't think I'd have done it in the morning to get them back to sleep though - they aren't going to go back to sleep for that long anyway. My youngest used to get up at about 5.30 - we just got up with him and dozed as he watched telly played.

Sorry if I haven't been nice and friendly. I wasn't trying not to be.

Are you feeling a bit conscious about being a lone parent with her going on about you being a "young mum"? I remember when I first became a LP feeling that I had to get everything absolutely right and have these perfect children with a perfect household and perfect order just to prove that being a LP didn't mean I couldn't cope...

Also, don't forget that when people start arguing and being a bit combative on threads, it's not necessarily directed at the OP it's directed at each other and it's also just people throwing ideas out to get feedback. If we've been on this site for quite a long time we don't take it personally because we're used to it, but if you're feeling a bit vulnerable and wobbly, I can understand that it would put you off. Please don't be put off though, this site can be extremely supportive and useful and if you explain upfront that you're feeling too shaky to be shouted at, mostly people won't shout at you and will chase away anyone who will.

Thanks, letsgostrawberrypicking.

BB, 5:30am is an absolute killer.
We had that, too. 3 nights of Controlled Crying, end of story.

Talk to your neighbour, explain what you are going to do and then go for it.
Give it 3-5 nights and be firm.

If it does not work THEN start considering alternatives.

BB, I can only see one poster who said "unpleasant" and she then said she had reread your OP and that you didn't sound unpleasant.

Other people have just put their point of view. That's not unkind. It's far better that people are straightforward with one another. You asked your neighbour. She replied. At length, clearly, but you asked her and she told you what she thought. You didn't like it. It seems much the same has happened here. You asked what people thought. Some agreed with you. Some did not. I find it more helpful to have a range of views to inform me, rather than people just comforting me. Real support is not just agreeing with people.