Nosy Neighbour intimidating me re 15 months tantrums/crying

[Bluebella]

Hello all,

I am a single mum of 27 years old. We have been battling with early morning risings and on advice from HV, she said if he wakes up at 5.30am, just don't get him out of the cot, go into reasure him, and say 'It's not time to get up yet', and leave him to cry.

More often than not after 20 mins of crying he would go back to sleep. I thought great, he just needs to learn that it's not time to get up.

I was aware that he was being quite noisy in the mornings, so I put a short note through the door of my next door neigbour, who is also a single mum to two teenage daughters.

A few days later I got a very strongly worded letter through the door, which I found quite offensive. She was saying that it was cruel to let DS cry, it was an acceptable time to get up, it is not unheard of for babies to get up this early, she thinks I should get up with him and give him milk/breakfast etc etc.... She said her family canot put up with the crying any more, and DS is waking them all up, and they cannot cope with having to wake up so early, so i should be getting up with him. It really was quite a strong letter and implied that I didn't know what I was doing. She refered to me as a young mum too, which she has done before, which I find offensive, while I AM young, I am not a YOUNG mum in teens or early twenties, I am a professional person, a Team Manager in a call centre, and I am perfectly competeant to deal with my son.

YES I know that I do need to respect the neighbours, and had she just said 'Could yoiu try to keep it down in the mornings' then I really wouldn't have been so upset. It's just the way she tried to tell me what I was doing wrong etc...

Anyways so I decided to go and see her, and tell her that I was very upset because I do not feel I am being cruel to DS and this was on HV advice etc.... trouble is, she was so 'nice to me' that all my 'strong will' intentions to stand up for myself went out the window. I told her I would try to minimise the crying in the mornings.

THEN, I was too upset to even stay at my house that night, that I went to stay at my EX's house... which I would never do, but I really didn't want to go back to my house, I didn't feel comfortable with going there and was scared in case DS was noisy.

Obviously I did have to go back the next day, and when DS woke at 5am, I was too scared to let him cry that I scooped him out of bed, and tried to cuddle him back to sleep in bed, but he just thought it was time toget up and I ended up getting up at this ridiculous hour!! Same thing happened the next day, and now he is getting in the habbit of getting up even earlier because I am too frightended for him to wake the neighbours up... Yes I tried giving him milk etc... but nothing helps if I take him o ut of the cot he thinks its time to start the day and wants to go downstairs...

The other day in the day time, DS was having a BIG tantrum - because I took the cherio packet away from him... it caused a huge meltdown.... absolutely kicking and screaming and rolling around hysterical. I was trying to give him the cheerios in a little pot rather than out of the packet. Nothing would calm him, i.e. Drink/Cuddles/the packet of cherios back/fruit ect.... he was just hysterical. NEXT thing I know - next door neighbour at the door banging...

She is come to see if everything is OK, and to say her 15 year old daugter can take DS out for a walk if I need a break. I was gobsmacked! Maybe she was being kind, but I felt like she is implying I can't handle DS and need time off!! I really woduln't want her 15 year old daughter to go out with him! If he was to go out for a walk I would be absolutely happy to take him myself! We weren't going for a walk because we were shortly going out to meet a friend for lunch and I wante dthe tantrum to pass so I could get DS ready. I really felt like she was checking up on me, and it made me feel like shit.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice, and helpful, but I felt - I can't even let DS have his tantrum without being 'checked up on'.

Later on I went round there because I wanted to make sure she knew that I wasn't a young mum, and that I am only 3 years off 30. I also talked to her about what a demanding child DS can be and he does cry a lot and I can't help that he has this type of personality, he has always been high need.

Has any one else had to deal with a anything like this before? What do I do about the mornings? Is it really unreasonable for me to let him cry if its before 6am? IMO beofre 6am its too early to get up.

Oh I Just feel like moving house! How dramatic is that!

xxx

I quite often wake up at 5AM - 5.30AM btw. It's really not that early at this time of year. (Or maybe I'm just wierd. But I'm quite often awake long before my children.)

Aitch, ds's treasure box has bought me many precious sleepy minutes on the sofa while he plays with it all He's taken to dragging around one of dd's handbags stuffed with tat atm which is just adorable

Bluebella, personally I think you should ignore this neighbour and do what you want to do.

Its crap when you get woken up by a neighbour but she has had kids herself so should be a bit more understanding.

Am sure her teens will be blasting music at all hours soon which no doubt they will expect you to deal with. Swings and roundabouts an all thast......

'ignore your neighbour and do what you want to do'
And who said the community was dead, eh?
It's about respect surely? Respect for your baby, to not leave them upset. And respect for your neighbour to not disturb them. For the very same reason, I don't let my dd run around the flat like a loon, and keep the TV down to an acceptable level. I'm sure she'd like to, but I respect that the man who lives downstairs does not want to think a herd of elephants is coming through his ceiling

Thanks Littlelamb, just to say I'm not leaving him to cry for more than 10 mins with out reasurance. As AitchTwoOh has mentioned, about leaving a baby to cry for 20 mins, thats not what I was doing, I was leaving for 5 Mins, then reasuring, then leave 10 Mins, and then reasuring, then in 5 mins he would usually go back to sleep.

Herbeautitude - Thanks for the post x I work 4 days a week, so on my days off I absoultely teasure my time with my DS, so I wouldn't be interested in her daughter babysitting as my days off are my precious time with DS. DS goes to his dads on a sat night so that's 'my time'.

AitchTwoOh - As previsouly mentioned yep I have tried taking little man into bed with me, but it doesn't work :-(. Both bedrooms are adjacent to her house.

Danthe4th - Thanks for you post, don't think anything is disturbing little one, we have black out curtains, I think he just wakes up and wants to get up, the frustrating thing is I know he's still tired, and he does need more sleep, cuz if he has got up early he is more grumpy by mid morning than usual.

Ewe - I guess around 8 days or something like that? I think with my son, he wakes up, realises he's all alone and he wants to get up, but he is so tired still, that he crys because he is tired and he doesn't know quite what to do. I will get up at 6am I really don't have a problem with that, I have to get up 6.30am anyway to get me ready for work and DS ready for nursery. Would be just lovely if he would start to sleep till 7am!

Gosh, I didnt realise this would be such an emotive post!! Lot's of opinions on the matter which is great.

I think that I will definaetly be getting up with him if he wakes around 6am, however any earlier I consider too early (I mean if it were 5.50am I suppose that would be OK too) but I am talking 5am/5.30am I just think he needs to learn he needs to sleep a bit longer.

I got toys in the cot, doesn't really help. Tried giving him milk, doesn't work, got black outs doesn't work, tried bringing him into bed, doesn't work! :-'(

AitchTwoOh - No I don't believe I am 'struggling', I don't need a break from my darling son in the day time, I enjoy spending time with him!! I really love being a mum. I don't feel I need help from the neighbour at all. (a friend out of her is of course nice) but in regards to childcare I manage very well.

Thanks for all your replies x

LL - The neighbour is out of order. OP is trying to get her baby to sleep better which is a million miles away from letting her kid run amok around the house so can't see your comparison there, sorry.

And no-one said the community is dead, if anything the neighbour is being very un-community like for whining about the noise, but I guess her kids must have been silent and great sleepers. Bully for her, all kids aint like that unfortunately.

Thanks South Mum x Seems there is a clear devide of opinions on this!!:-) which is fair enough of course.,

In regards to treasure box, DS has several boxes of little toys, that he has in his play room downstairs.

Thinking maybe getting a TV in my room maybe DS will sit in bed with me and watch some kids DVD for a bit, so to keep him quiet but not get up yet. Or maybe thats a bad idea.

I don't think the neighbour has been "uncommunity-like". She's offered to help.

The way she offered to help is a bit , but it is still a genuine offer of help, so I don't think it's fair to say she's uncommunity-like.

How long has it been going on? I think that's really the deciding factor in whether the neighbour is being an interfering, judgemental cow or a community-minded neighbour. (Although I do think a note saying that the OP was cruel is very judgey and interfering.)

i'd love to know what the note actually said, because judging by the rest of this woman's behaviour she's pretty nice. as the OP acknowledges.

fwiw i think leaving babies to cry for 20 mins is cruel, and that's what the woman is hearing, she's unaware of the shushing and patting.

i do think you sounds hugely defensive, OP. and i didn't suggest taking him into bed, i said get up out of your bed and downstairs to play, while you have a doze on the sofa. i live in a flat, i've never been able to even consider controlled crying because i know it would disturb my neighbours.

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been said:

Could you tell your neighbours (politely, but tell, don't ask) that you plan to continue with the plan for, say, two or three weeks? Ask them when is the best two weeks for them (maybe they are going away on holidays?) over the summer - the neighbours DD's wont have school anyway.

I suspect that it might be easier for your neighbours to cope if they now there is an endpoint, and also that if 2/3 weeks don't sort your DS out, then nothing will and you might just have to wait it out until he starts to sleep later of his own accord.

Yes Herbeautitude, I think this is what has upset me - the letter that was put through my door.

To be honest as soon as I read it I started shaking and crying and went straight out because I no longer felt comfortable being there. I know that may sound extreme, but it really really shocked me and upset me.

Fine complain that DS is noisy but not destroy my parenting tecnhiques and make me sound a bad mother... thats what upset me and it REALLY did, not angry - I went to my ex's and I was hyperventilating with crying! She really really upset me the way she worded it.

re the tv, i personally think it's a fine idea, if it will help. maybe not your ideal but you have to consider your neighbour too.

a treasure box is a bit different to just normal toys, it's old spoons, leather gloves, string, basically weird old shit not made out of plastic. it's the only thing that keeps dd2 really quiet.

Hi AitchTwoOh,

I really think people can read things wrong here, I am at work and I am typing very quickly, I am not meaning to sound defensive at all, I don't understand why its coming accross that way.

okay, clearly i've read that completely wrong then, my apologies. lol.

what, exactly, did the woman's note say?

Wow - you've sparked some opinion on this one! I can't really see why lots of people feel to right to have a go at you though.

I completely understand why you are feeling intimidated but it might be more in your mind than her trying to do that (if you see what I mean). From reading your post, it sounds as though the neighbour was probably stewing about being woken up early but didn't want to appear mean by saying anything. Then your note probably gave her the opportunity to bring it up but she obviously didn't word it particularly well and made you feel bad. It sounds from your subsequent conversations with her though, that she is trying to make amends by offering her daughter to take your son for a walk. I can see how you felt intimidated by her coming round when your son was having a tantrum but, like another poster said, she was probably just wanting to make sure everything was ok. I can see how you're now worried about every time he crys now, trying to make him quiet because I think I'd feel the same in your situation but I think you've just got to try and ignore it and not worry about what she thinks during the day. Maybe you could invite her in for a coffee so you can get to know her better and she can see what you're really like and get to know your son. It might smoothe things over.

With regards to the crying at 5.30am, I do sympathise because my ds wakes at 4.50am EVERY day. He's usually happy for half an hour or so but I have to get up with him usually by 5.30am otherwise he would scream the house down and wake dd. So I do feel for you but at the same time, I probably wouldn't appreciate it if I lived next door! I think what a pp said might be a good compromise...tell your neighbour you're going to give it a week of trying controlled crying so that they know there's an end in sight.

With regards to the training clock, I think your ds is too young at the moment. It works brilliantly for my dd...but we didn't start it until she was 2 and a half.

by the way, what's FWIW?

Also - you say leaving baby to cry for 20 mins is cruel - but I am not doing that as I said earlier, I am leaving for 5mins/10 mins, also no one KNOWS what my baby is like, He does cry before sleep. Even at bed time he some times cries for 20 mins (with periodic checks and comforting) before settling.

for what it's worth.

and i know you're not doing that, but she didn't when she wrote the note. it's not fair to feel so aggrieved, leaving a baby to cry for 20mins IS cruel, you'd agree. hence why you don't do it. she can't hear you shushing and patting.

Thanks for being understanding 13lucky.

I totally see the perspective from the neighbour as well.

I don't mean intimidated in the sense - frightened, I mean, just feeling more on edge in my own home.

The letter is about 5 pages long, which I will post some extracts if you really want to see it. But I'm not exagerating, she IS a nice lady and I went to her house and talked to her about it, the relationship is ok I think between us, its fine! I just trying to find opinions about getting baby up before 6am. Which I am getting lots of advice so thanks!

bluebella - I do feel your pain - fwiw, my 11-year-old still wakes at 5.30-6am, always has done. Obviously nowadays it's not an issue but...nothing worked, he just wakes early.

Things which did help was like aitch suggests - a special box full of intersting (but safe) bits and bnbs for him to explore, with something like a toy catalogue to rip up 'read', a large flat make up mirror to gaze at himself with, plug chain, little bells, feathers, shells, fircones, etc.

when I was really desperate, ch5 on very quiet allowed me to doze while he watched early morning kids tv...

the other thing which worked when ds was nearing 2 was story/music cds. Just that extra hal;f way felt more civilised. Worth a go?

Please don't fall out with yur neighbour - I think she is trying to be helpful, not nosey, and you need upper hand when her teens do start blaring loud music etc

eeeuch. 5 pages. that is a lot.

PRincessTadstall - Both issues were of interest to me. If I put DS to bed later it makes no difference at all, still wakes early :-(

Thanks for all the nice comments. I think I'm going to go back to 'netmums' to be honest, I haven't had any issues with unkind posters on that website.

I don't really want to talk about this any more because it's upsetting me more.

I posted to get opinions, Yes, but some of the ones that people wrote do sound like they are having a go at me and calling me 'unpleasent' etc... I just didn't come on here to be slated, but to have support. Yes the support might be 'for' the consideration of the neighbour, but there are ways to write things nicely.

it's clear that the neighbour has upset me with the words written in the letter, and I feel my privacy was invaded when she came round to see 'if all was OK'.

Thanks for the tips from you anyway, the treasure box idea sounds nice.

I can really sympathise with you on the horror of early wakers. My children wake very early and always have done. The both woke up at 4.15 for months on end when they were young toddlers. Whilst I was able to get them back to sleep for a few months, that was it for getting up for both of them by about 18 months. They each go through phases of sleeping a bit later and then going back to a 5/5.30 start. Sadly these rarely coincide. At the moment my three year old is sleeping until after six but my 5.6 year old has got up before 5.30 (mostly nearer five) for about a month. The best, and most honest advice I can offer you is to go to bed earlier. Make sure the lights are out by ten and you will cope.

From what you've written I do think it sounds as if your neighbour is being fair. You feel patronised because she says she knows what's it's like to be a "young mum" and then elsewhere you (or maybe someone else) says she should understand because she does have children. She does understand, and when she heard a tantru she offered to help. A walk out for twenty minutes with someone can help.

I'm with Aitch on the crying. She doesn't know that you are reassuring your son. They just hear twenty minutes of crying. I find it very distressing to hear children crying and apparently ignored. I've stayed in a couple of family type hotels and the thing I hated most was hearing all those little children crying themselves to sleep. I'm not going to tell you you are being cruel, as I'm not there seeing what you are doing, but it can sound very cruel.

Well, you did write a letter first so she can write a letter back. Although, I agree 5 pages is over the top.

Maybe her DCs got up at 5.30am (or earlier) when they were little and she just got up with them? Perhaps it is getting her down no being woken up at the same time now?

FWIW sleep training with some DCs just doesn't work. Lots of us have (or did) get up with the DCs at unimaginable hours.

My DS1 got up at 5.30 am until he started school. We live in a flat so I would always get up at that time - we have 4 sets of neighbours to piss off. I am not a morning person. I would be very unhappy if having shown my neighbours that consideration for 5 years I was subjected to being woken up at 5.30am by someone elses baby.

YABU