am absolutley fuming.....but think i may have ott with punishment?

[micci25]

dd1 4 has always been the apple of every ones eye, or the golden child, of my family and is therefore v spoilt, but lately her behavior has been getting worse and worse.

today we were walking to her nan's where she has her sunday lunch and she was pushing her wooden dog toy along when all of a sudden she screamed and started smashing the toy up on the side of the road!

i asked why why she told me she hated the toy it was stupid and she is glad that she broke it!

as her punishment i told her we were going home she wouldnt be going to her nan's that day but that just seemed to make things worse!

she is not sorry at all for what she did to the toy or telling me she hated me, or slamming all the doors on her way back in the house

her punishment i have decided is that she has lost all priveledges, her tv, dvd, cd player have been taken out of bedroom and there is tv or access to laptop, ds and wii untill i believe she is suitably sorry!

when i went to check on her and see what she wanted for lunch she told me she smashed up her toy because she angry with it and she also angry with me!!!!

i know that this punishment sounds extreme but i have had it up to here with her behavior, she is constantly answering back and just blatently ignoring me, telling me she never gets anything and her cousin has loads of good toys and she gets nothing, she is prone to violence towards me, is constantly in a temper at something .... the list could go on..she is just generally ferral!!!!

i know my punishment seems a bit ott but really dont know what else to do her behavior needs to calm down before she hurts herself or some one else!

does any one have any suggestions or has had similar experiences with wild uncontrolable children?

For what it is worth Micci25, I understand how easy it is to spoil your child.

What I find the worst in your description of your child's life (and I also find it slightly sickening) is that your child's grandad locks himself and her in the bathroom until (presumably) they get their way. Personally I do not think I would ever go around there with the children again. Your parents have absolutely no respect for you, and they are showing your children how to treat you with no respect.

I think the root of your problem might be with the way your parents treat you and the way you let them treat you in front of your children.

Message withdrawn

Def agree with Issy - hungry children are grumpy children. Children that haven't been exercised during the day are hyper

Yes children ARE like dogs,

and like dogs they need to be well-trained

Hi Micci,
just noticed in your post that you mention your dd goes to her gps for her sunday lunch - if i'm reading it right it sounds like she goes for lunch with them without the rest of you? If that's the case, do you think maybe she was getting angry because she would rather you all had lunch together at the gps?

Does your Dad really lock the pair of them in the bathroom 'against' you?! That's ludicrous and you must emphasis to him how much that undermines you. What starts off as fun can become really ingrained behaviour. He's teaching her to disrespect you, and ignore you, and that's unexcusable.

If you feel she's doing things - like smashing up her toy - for a reaction, don't give her a reaction. Try and stay cool and calm, simply say 'that's a shame', pick up the bits and put them in the bin - nothing more to be said. Maybe she needs more 'quiet' time, not dancing or playing with others, but quietly reading or painting on her own or just with you? It sounds like she is a busy little girl, maybe she is just overwraught.

yeah she does go alone but this is always her choice i stay for a coffee with my nan and then tell dd1 that i am leaving to go her other nanas with daddy and sister and would she like to come with us? and she always insists she wants to stay she gets very upset when her nan is away and she has to come with us i think she like being center of attention! and tbf my dad has only done the bathroom thing once or twice, but yes they do undermine a lot when i am there.

i dont really go round there that much now when she is there

i tried no tv today when i had my sisters two dc's (1 year and 3) and she was v well behaved, much better than usual they played make believe most of they day and even though they dragged out nearly every toy she owns they put them when asked to which is unusual

Sorry but it should n't be her choice. She seems to have way too much control over her activities when what a 4 year old craves is structure, routine and boundaries. She needs you to tell her what she is doing, no choice, no debate. Sometimes she'll kick off but at least she'll learn to respect you as her mum and hopefully your parents will too. That is what gives them a sense of security. Good about tv today.

She has far to much stuff in her room for a 4 year old. A lot of teenagers don't have all that in their bedrooms.
Also why does she have unlimeted access to a computer? My 16 spends quite a lot of time on the computer but she does not have unlimeted acces.
You are treating her too much like a tenager and not like a litle girl. So it seems to me taht she is getting angry as shh just has to much stuf and would much rather spend time with you.

yes she probably does have far too much say in what she does and eats and where she goes, but as i said earlier, we have devised a new routine that involoves when she will be playing, watching tv, learning ect, so there wont be any choice anymore and it limits internet time too

i wanted to to start it today but her and her younger cousin are diff stages and learning time is on a morning followed by free play i thought it would be unfair to have learning time if my niece couldnt join in so they had free play all morning (which is meant to be after learning time! but brekkie and lunch were still the same and tv is still banned till she earns it back by behaving better

although she did turn on the tv today while i was on the loo and put vh1 on (she has somehow worked out which menu is for what channels on sky!!)

her reasoning was that i told her she wasnt allowed to watch tv but no one said she couldnt listen to music, the laptop is where she cant reach it and my cd player wasnt plugged in so she had to put on the tv to listen to music!!! but her and my niece played a lovely dancing game and dd1 turned it back off without me asking when lunch was done!

DS who is 3.11 has a cd/tape player, tv (though only plays dvds or vidoe no actual stations IYKWIM)and the video/dvd to go with it in his bedroom. He also plays on the playstation with his brother and on my computer. He also knows how to get to the particular channels he likes with the remote on the tv/sky downstairs. Our family is very technology minded we have 2 dvds,2 videos, 3 tvs, 3 computers and 2 laptops in a household of 4 (me,dp,dss-14 and ds)

BUT He has limited access to all and tv is never on in our house between 6pm (dinner) and 8pm his bedtime. He is not obsessed with any of the gadgets we have as they are just there and always have been. He sees his father and I spend a lot of time on our computers (we are on same chat sites eg TAFN as well as our own individual ones)neither of us watch any tv. He speaks to our friends that we have meet online as well as family. He also runs in the park socialises very well, has books read to him and is a very well rounded child.

I suppose what Im trying to say to the OP as well as others is that having the technology is not a bad thing it is how it is managed and how your child is parented with it. We all know about the tv being a babysitter if not kept under check same can be said for other techy things.

It also sounds like you may have some control issues at the moment in regards to your 4 year old micci25 but I do think that it is par for the course at around 4. Well it is with my ds as well. He says he finds it hard to not throw things when we talk after an incident so I have come to the conclusion that a lot of it is done on impulse.

The only thing about your posts that do shock me is the type of tv etc that she is watching. I would never ever consider dr who/torchwood and the like for under 8's and even bratz would be at least 6 but thats more a personal thing I think. Ranted long enough now.

her tv has no stations either and tbh she doesnt really bother that much with the wii (she does like wii fit but this is only new so she hasnt played with it that much yet) its the laptop and her ds she likes have decided to limit both of these but her tv in her bedroom was already limited i.e. it was not allowed on a night only if she woke up too early in the morning or during daytime, tv in the living room used to be on all day long!

and i suppose that i have used the laptop as a babysitter as she quite apt at using it and am able to get on with what needs doing in the house without her whinging and following me everywhere i go. but as i have said things are starting to change

micci25
like most parents who have posted a reply you seem to think that behaviour is the cause of the problem and that control of behaviour is also the answer.Thats probably because you haven't yet realised that there isn't really a solution to these perceived problems of broken toys and shouty fits.I suggest you think about how your behaviour has changed over the years in response to the modification techniques tried on you.And then when you realise that it never has and that you are the same old you and that you do what you can and do what you want you will give up the discussion.Help her break the rubbishy toy dogs theres a lot more to be said for the gadgets at least she learns from them-- she was probably right to do so anyway because you annoyed her in the first place.

her punishment i have decided is that she has lost all priveledges, her tv, dvd, cd player have been taken out of bedroom and there is tv or access to laptop, ds and wii untill i believe she is suitably sorry!

Is this a wind up?

If you have a spoilt child I think this is why, give them too much and they'll appreciate nothing.
Go back to basics and let her enjoy life without goods, in all honesty my children had too much but NEVER would have any of those things in their rooms. When I realised they had too much I got a skip for crap stuff and a trip to the local charity shop with the rest. I would not return that stuff to your daughter's room.

Why does a child need a TV in their room? What are we teaching them?

bloody hell

she sounds terribly spoilt

and her behaviour is what happens when kids are spoilt

and dont get me started on Torchwood

some people have no clue.

Enid and Possieparker
there is no such thing as a spoiled child and if you teach your child that torchwood is an anagram of doctor who you will be doing well as they are unlikey to learn much else with you in control of their behaviour as they will be too distracted by their feelings of frustrations and devising plans of how to get round your obsessions

lol

are you mad?

I feel desperately sorry for the dd in question tbh

4 is a lovely age, ruined by all the torchwood, wii fit crap

Smutney? I don't get it, I have not said her child is spoilled the OP did. Which obsessions did you mean? The one where they don't watch unsupervised TV in their rooms like teenagers or the one where I interact with them or give them things that are creative to exercise their minds and imagination?
Tell me one benfit for a 4 year old in having a TV, Wii, DVD player in their room and watching adult television?

I agree with Enid, although feel for you OP and hope that you can modify a few things. At least it will be easier to resolve now than when she's 14.

Do you know, I never noticed that Torchwood was an anagram of Dr Who - well I never.

micci25 - I do think that you have been a bit jumped on here. There seems to be a tendancy to automatically think that lots of techno toys are bad and lots of wooden ones are good - I suffer from it myself. However, when I make myself think about whether this is rational or not, I'm not so sure. Most children have limited access to TV and I'm not sure that it matters all that much where it is physically located if it is controlled and there are skills which can be learned from controlled use of a computer.

Hey, Micci25, it sounds to me as if your instinct is to give your child a lot of free rein - more than many of the commentators on the thread approve of (unlimited TV, unlimited computer time for e.g.).

You might like to explore the Taking Children Seriously philosophy www.takingchildrenseriously.com - that might resonate more with your instincts as I read them in this thread rather than suddenly being restrictive about DVDs and computer games. There are Maybe not, but just in case it's helpful

heated discussion about TV

heated discussion about video games

massively long discussion about video games

and one about destroying TVs (only most of the commentators didn't get that it is satirical...)

there are

(weird. I don't remember typing those two words at all!)

Gooseyloosey Onwardandupward
time to start a rearguard action here.five children later i don see anything but excellent hand-eye coordination and a broad variety of conversation from deep time spent on the games and on the teevee. Lets see how far we get banning tv in your bedroom mummy Posiep and Enid and Elektra after one of your hissy fits -no doubt turn into domestic violence telling you what to watch and what not to watch when you're in a grump.Youre not a child? well you present your behavioural arguments with the the tit-for-tat simplicity of a child.If only children were as easy to manipulate as wooden toys.The trouble is they are you and share your failings.Relax in the supermarket give them their own trolley pile it high and then leave it at the checkout.Forget the strictures and stresses.Conspire with your child to get the best out of it all.If you get good at Mariokart there may be more to say to you as they get older.

I don't watch TV in my room either, I have better things to do. You're right really so much hand eye coordination from TV, are you serious? My children have hand eye coordination because they play tennis and football, we have a Wii and an Xbox but these are not in their bedrooms and I decide when they play and how long they do it for.
The reason we have parents in our social structure is to do what's best for children and not what they would like. Why would I replace my reasoned well thought adult arguement with the reasoning of a child?
Deep time? What's that? How do your kids do at school and sport? Just a couple of things that are a little more helpful than Mario kart?