am absolutley fuming.....but think i may have ott with punishment?

[micci25]

dd1 4 has always been the apple of every ones eye, or the golden child, of my family and is therefore v spoilt, but lately her behavior has been getting worse and worse.

today we were walking to her nan's where she has her sunday lunch and she was pushing her wooden dog toy along when all of a sudden she screamed and started smashing the toy up on the side of the road!

i asked why why she told me she hated the toy it was stupid and she is glad that she broke it!

as her punishment i told her we were going home she wouldnt be going to her nan's that day but that just seemed to make things worse!

she is not sorry at all for what she did to the toy or telling me she hated me, or slamming all the doors on her way back in the house

her punishment i have decided is that she has lost all priveledges, her tv, dvd, cd player have been taken out of bedroom and there is tv or access to laptop, ds and wii untill i believe she is suitably sorry!

when i went to check on her and see what she wanted for lunch she told me she smashed up her toy because she angry with it and she also angry with me!!!!

i know that this punishment sounds extreme but i have had it up to here with her behavior, she is constantly answering back and just blatently ignoring me, telling me she never gets anything and her cousin has loads of good toys and she gets nothing, she is prone to violence towards me, is constantly in a temper at something .... the list could go on..she is just generally ferral!!!!

i know my punishment seems a bit ott but really dont know what else to do her behavior needs to calm down before she hurts herself or some one else!

does any one have any suggestions or has had similar experiences with wild uncontrolable children?

hullygully
we have all read the posts about punishment and reward techniques control of toys and tv
and the other attempts at behavioural control.

You learned to sit in your chair and eat your meal not because you were taught how to but because you soon worked out that was probably the best way of doing things.
Its more a question of whether you get there with or without the parental rewards and punishment schemes.That is the overt 'do it my way or suffer'approach which doesn't have any lasting effect.

(The Sunday Times is also -like the Times- well-known for its in-depth scientific analysis LMAO)

Ever read any W. Golding, Smutney?

So talking and negotiating and continuing dialogue and respect rather than star charts and naughty steps? Couldn't agree more.

Yes hullygully; would you like to be my friend?

If you had just said that in the first place it would all have been a lot simpler...Of course I'll be your friend. Do you have many...?

Smutney,many children learn the way to eat a meal is to have it on your lap in front of the telly, whilst shovelling it in open mouthed throughout. They can be taught to sit at the table and have good table manners as this is what we expect from our children.
Parents don't always control they often guide. I have a time out place to give a child space when their behaviour unacceptable and is affecting others, ie shouting, being rude etc. This comes after negociating and is followed by dialogue.
However if you wish a child to do something there's nothing wrong with postive reinforcement, eg my child is very very noisy at school and so had a sticker chart for three weeks to solve this noise level, 3 months on he's still quiet in the corridors!!

janeHH
A Sea Trilogy about ten years ago but haven't looked at LOTF for a while

Have not read A Sea Trilogy, but do you see what I mean about LOTF then? (Leaving children to their own devices, letting them "find it all out for themselves" etc)

PosieP
I like to eat my meal watching tv. Sometimes.

I don't remember whether or not I had to get a star first.

With my 'mouth open'? depends on whether or not the laptop is on this page

I don't use stickers, thanks. I hadn't realised choices we made as grown ups dramatically affected what we know is right and wrong. If you were going to a dinner party I hope you wouldn't turn up with a tray and a laptop and be miffed when you were the only one sat in the lounge whilst your friends gathered around the dinner table.

janeHH
Unlike W Golding i don't believe children are by nature evil.Quite the opposite .The majority of people are by nature good honest and kind.That is why our police-force is a waste of time and money.You and i wouldn't steal from our neighbours nor hurt them. In truth you would probably give and help.A minority don't live by that inherent code.Children are born with that natural inclination for honesty and decency.
Its not the fear of being caught by the police that makes society the sane and normal place it is >Its our natural inclination to live in harmony and by our instinctive tendency to want to be loved wanted and accepted.

PossieP
It depends what they are talking about at the dinner-table.If its children and mortgages I think tv in any position is a better option.

PS Possiep
Who said anything about a tray?

nutter

WTF? Yes often I sit down with my children at the dinner table and discuss the woes of interest rates. This morning we discussed why people in China only have one child and how a baby grows as well as how nice it is to have curls and how lovely the pictures were that were drawn for their teachers.
It's funny that you keep throwing silly ideas into the mix that noone would actually do.

PossieP
I thought you said a dinner party with friends I must have misread your post of 16:37:15 you clearly meant your children's friends

No, I thought you were advocating that children should sit and watch tv whilst eating. And forgot what you were responding to

actually doris i am ignoring sputney because i have actually studied pyschology at both gcse and a level and am due to start uni to follow this up and behavior control and modifiaction has been proved by many pyschologists inc skinner and his rats and there was also a study (i cant remember who this was by but it may have been robertson) that studied postitive and negative reinforcement on a childs behavior and found that postivite reinforcement encourages children to behave in certain ways. there were also many other studies that prove that behavior is learned (from role models) and can be modified.

so therefore i dont believe what smutney is saying when she is saying that behavior cannot be modified and i can only think that she is refering to the old nature vs nurture debate which is actually referring to certain personality traits and not behavior as such. also i dont not understand much of what she is writing because i think that she is merely paraphrasing something she herself does not understand properly

Micci, just to add, think you have been dignified throughout this thread. Slightly misguided, but dignified.

I would be more concerned about unlimited internet access than Torchwood.

I googled appendicitis recently and was faced with a video of an amy winehouse lookalike with her fanjo out.

Micci, the fact that you've posted and taken a fair bit of stick shows a commitment to your daughter, please seek outside help. Relate run a very cheap parenting class in my area, by the sounds of it you don;t have a partner and are constantly undermined by your family and so probably need to get in touch with your own instincts and being allowed to be a mother and not remaining a child for your own parents. Your HV can be of great use to, spend a little more time with you and your dd, maybe a little running around will stop her jumping on the furniture???

Good Luck and remember everything can be undone and you can start again, she's only four.

thank you frankie i will no longer be allowing her to watch torchwood the ones that we did watch were not as graphic/violent as the ones that were described on here. i think that thankfully we missed those episodes. also her internet access might not have been limited timewise but certainly was limited on the sites she was able to get onto, her homepage was set to cbeebies and this was the only that she could view without the administrators password.

posie i do have a partner, we do not live togther yet but he spends the majority of his time at my house. i dont believe that i am a child for my own parents i left home at 17 moved back in for a couple of months and then left again to move about two hours away from them. i think that thier undermining does not come from the fact that they view me as their baby still but that they view dd1 as thier own as much as she is mine, as when she was born i was single and my life changed completely they wanted to help as much as possible so they took a very active role in caring for dd1.

exercise is not the problem with the diving all the furniture she gets plenty of exercise. we walk every where we go, she dances three times a week, has outdoor play at nursery five times a week and at her nans twice a week when the weather is allowing, also regular trips to the park.

she is a very hyperactive child and also v imaganitive, she is bouncing on the furniture because she says she is either practising her gymnastics as she is desperate to start this but her dance school dont do classes untill age 6 or because my carpet is either the sea infested with sharks, killer whales, giant squid and octopuses or a swamp with alligators and crocodiles, possibly even the loch ness monster!!!!

i will speak to my hv about better ways to deal with her hyperactivity and tantrums, but as i have said this week with more regimented routine she seems to be doing okay, i think actually giving her an activity helps to keep her focused and calm, although this has not stopped her expecting to get everything she wants and screaming blue murder when she cant, but i expect only firmness on my part as well as gp's will do this in time.

It sounds as if you're moving in the right direction.

thank you posie, so do i actually i feel like i am coping a lot better with dd1 this week and even managed to keep calm when she was yelling, screaming and telling me she hated me (she was not allowed the cake that she wanted) in the supermaket earlier today as the was the first tantrum of the day rather than the 5th! lol

we even managed to get to dancing without a fight (usually she picks and chooses when she wants to go and when she wants to go to her nans instead but i have started putting my foot down at this) but i suspect that this maybe because she knows that a lot of girls are coming out of the under 8's troupes and she wants to join but knows that she will only be invited to do this if she is seen as reliable!

as a treat for going to dancing without any fuss even though she knew that dd2 had been with her dp's mum (whom she calls nan) and she had not we are goingt o the park after nursery tommorrow to feed the ducks. (bad behavior in supermarket was ignored)

*my dp's mums not hers obvioulsy, although she does say that she has a boyfriend at nursery! !!!

Well it does sound as if your trying to go in the right direction so keep up the good work .