I am SO fed up with todder politcs. Kids hit. They wind each other up. Its life.

[Fonk]

We as parents sort it out and discipline as we feel best for the kid.

Sometimes this will not be in front of everyone. I am not going to scream at my 3 yo because it gives a middle aged woman with a sobbing PFB sactisfaction. I will discipline in my own way, in my own time. I know what works for my kid.

It doesn't mean we don't care.

What really really gets me, more than anything, is when this translates into bad feeling between parents.

IME, when a kid hits another, the parent of the hitter feels like crap and they actually could do with a bit of support too. not so much a whispering campaign.

And it is exhausting

oh I hate soft play and am in a foul mood, and don't get why this week, as soon as I spend a second with dd, ds has to whack the nearest older girl in a frilly dress with a bouncer father. Actually I do but-aargh

(its filly btw.)

did not actually intend to abandon you to the presumably non-biting wolves lol!

ahhh the irony had to go to a soft play party. DD1 did not hit anyone today hoorah!

To clarify yes I also intervene and suggest that dd should apologise to the other child and then we move away to do something else.

What I don't do is go on about it until she looks contrite because that doesn't happen much with under threes.

We do discuss how people don't like it and perhaps how loudly shouting might be a diff option.

She was however given "the look" by a few mothers and I found myself apologising in advance in case it happens, labelled much do you think?

I have done a week of it

its sooooo hard

What really really gets me is the lack of sympathy people have for parents of hitters/biters

its got to be one of the harder things the average parent faces yet you are seen as being in the wrong, needing to apoligse etc. When actually you feel like just bursting into tears and crawling under a big coat.

it is crap really. you atart to wonder if they think you are leading the hitting by example. also feel that any lentil weaver tendencies (guilty) will be mooted as the cause of the stage persisting.

Playgroup playleaders being fab about it here though, suggesting not doing anything about it at home/out except leading her away to do something else so they can be more firm there. They think it is related to dd2 siting moving about etc so think it not a good idea to make a thing about it at home.

def re lentil weavery

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that however you parent your kids, they behave the same for the first 4 years or so.

I have to believe this...

Still don't get why other people care if another person's child is told off or not. My god my work is cut out for me looking after the two I have...

It's true Filly. I've noticed recently that I am very slack compared to the average parent- things like jumping on sofas don't even enter the radar unless someone looks like they'll get hurt. When ds1 drew all over our front room wall I didn't know whether to cry or be impressed that he's actually picked up a pen and drawn something that looked vaguely like a circle. A few weks ago he knocked about a foot square of plaster off the wall back to the brickwork. I didn't shout and scream (cleaned it up and promptly blew the hoover up- I swore then!) Dealing with death defying stunts, and a ds1 who wouldn't eat at all for many years meant that basic rules that my parents would have been sticklers for haven't even featured (and we really only go to the houses of people who are a slack- otherwise its a complete nightmare).

So off trots ds2 to school. And comes back with the best behaviour certificate - not for TRYING to be well behaved, but for BEING very well behaved. 1st prize no less. I can assure you it is absolutely nothing that I have done. He just loves institutional rules. Parents evening last week his teacher congratulated me on his behaviour and what a good job we'd done- I felt I had to assure her it was all him and nothing to do with us, or ds3 is going to come as a VERY big shock

I think lentil-weavers will blame your violent thuggish tendencies, and violent thugs will blame your lentil-weaving tendencies.

Like most of us here, I have been mum of the 'guilty' party and the 'victim'.

It doesn't take much effort to make a quick acknowledgement that your child has done something wrong in a way that is appropriate to their age and your parenting style does it?

Please also bear in mind that while some kids take being hit/ pushed etc in their stride others do not. My ds is quite sensitive and in the past essentially developed a fear of toddlers (quite sensible given they can be brutes- him included these days!!) because he was hurt by them (ear pulling, another kid getting him in a head lock are two examples).

This meant literally months of him crying at social situations and clinging to me.

Now he is as likely to be the one doing it (having a pinching phase)I can really see that it can hurt other children and make some of them fearful so I do make a big deal out of saying sorry to the parents just in case. And they've all said not to worry as 'they all do it'.

think pretty all of us have been on both sides, if we are honest, boo.

I have never met an NT kid who doesn't hit, tbh.

no one is saying parents shouldn't apologise.

I am feeling increasingly uncomfortable with disciplining my kid according to what I percieve as a need for justice from other mothers-I feel discipline should be about helping the child to behave better, not so much making the wronged party feel better (there are other ways to do that).

I also think every family is different, every mother is different. The mother who is not obviously telling her kid off could have decided to try ignoring the bad behaviour-and there are people who swear by it-or they could have PND, or been up all night long for the last 3 days and be absolutely exhausted. And in those situations these groups can be a lifeline.

so we should all stop with the judging, is what I'm saying. Assume every parent is doing their best in circumstances that we actually don't understand. And stop with the needing to see justice done to a 3 year old.

at jimjams and caligua.

Oh jimjam - there is hope for us all then !

Dh and I are worried about DS (2.8 yo) being so high energy, jumps around 12 hours a day, we need masses of energy to keep up with him. I thought may be he won't sit still or stop talking when 4 - 5 and at school. It is good to hear that they DO change....sigh of reflief !

ah yr, what you need is a steiner school...

Ah yes, thanks filly, sorry haven't emailed you about that yet - still thinking it over. I am very confused still.

oh god yr don't worry about that

you have my addy, in your own time, if you want to.

thanks filly

We looked at Steiner, if logistically possible would quite possibly have gone for it (especailly at one particular school). It is very calming environment. DS3 sounds like your DS - Steiner would probably suit him really well!

There is probably a difference here between mothers of boys and mothers of girls....

Anyway I take a zero tolerance to violence of any sorts. Why is it a big deal? Well because they aren't animals and it is my job to train them to be civilised and polite members of society. I wouldn't let them get away with it - it wouldn't be fair on the child that was hit! It's just polite and it's my job to correct them EVERY TIME they do something unacceptable, and to remove them from the situation and to show them and the victim that there are consequences to actions.

I would also apologise to the parent - not in writing or a big deal but just looking over and mouthing "I'm really sorry" and looking pained is manners, surely? It's horrid when another child hurts your child.

Thanks jimjam, will have to check them out. May be go and sit in one one day and see what goes on. I may be able to decide then.

Or try and got to the parent and toddler group- I think they all have them- that will give you a real idea of the school, and whether it will be right. Many of the mums will have children higher up in the school as well.

true morningpaper - I always think the girls DS age look much more peace-loving ! Although DS has been pushed around by taller, heavier girls quite often.

Yes, I am going to book a mother & toddler session, that would give me an idea.

...May be that is because a lot of people think he is a girl, I don't put him into pink, but he has a very pretty face, I still get aaahhhh "what a lovely little girl" despite the very boyish clothing

I tend to follow morningpaper's line TBH.

I know with my child, esp when she was younger, any sanctions - and also rewards - needed to be pretty immediate as she simply didn't always remember later on.

have been through this with 2 of my own and am now watching it with a nephew who has just become a hitter at 2 1/2. He hits because he has been spoilt rotten and he thinks he's the centre of the universe. His mother makes the odd gesture towards discipline but in the half hearted way you see on the TV parenting shows. He is on his way to becoming a bully and his mother on her way to losing friends rapidly.

It is not just the responsibility of a parent to raise a child. We wouldn't let a child be beaten. The looks from other parents are one way of ensuring that parents face their responibilites to bring a child up to live in society. With my niece I gently encourage her to take a more active role in removing her child and talking about the consequences of his behaviour. If I said nothing or provided too much sympathy I'd share the responsibility when he is bullying other children at school. Bullying is rife in schools now because we condone it in young children.

To me a mother who is not removing the child is one who is bringing up a bully. They are saying my child is so precious they can cause as much upset as they like because their pleasure is more important than someone else's harm.

Yes the children often get over it. Fortunately most are subjected to other influences. The other adults in their life make it clear they are not the centre of everyone's universe. The other children make it clear they don't like it. Most children eventually realise they need to moderate their behaviour.

I have met quite a few NT toddlers who don't hit unless provoked - and I mean hit first and not just someone taking the toy they wanted.

Oh man. Hell is other parents, eh? I hate the way these things seem to become such a big deal. We all need to get lives and a sense of proportion, frankly. A bit of sympathy for the kid who received the slap/bite/kick and for the shamed parent of the pariah who administered it doesn't need to be mutually exclusive, surely?

"I have met quite a few NT toddlers who don't hit unless provoked - and I mean hit first and not just someone taking the toy they wanted"

And in a toddler this has very little to do with parenting- far more to do with personality and maybe the number of children they live with. DS1 and ds2 never hit as toddlers- it just wasn't in their personality. DS3 will hit his 7 year old brother who towers above him with zero fear. I remember ds3 being hit by a 2 year old. He just looked at her as if to say "why did you do that" whilst ds2- 3 years older burst into tears- "don't hit my brother".

Agree with scummy though- hell is other parents!

The problem with throwing dirty looks at strangers etc is that you have no way of knowing whether the person you are staring at just doesn't give a damn (in which case the dirty look is going to be no use whatsoever), is having a really difficult time with a child going through a tricky phase during which nothing seems to work, or has a child with dx/undxed SN. In both of the latter scenarios all your dirty look will do is isolate further. I gave up going to parks with ds1 unless completely empty a long time ago. Not because of anything people have said, but because of the looks. He's never deliberately hurt another child either, just been totally oblivious.