I am SO fed up with todder politcs. Kids hit. They wind each other up. Its life.

[Fonk]

We as parents sort it out and discipline as we feel best for the kid.

Sometimes this will not be in front of everyone. I am not going to scream at my 3 yo because it gives a middle aged woman with a sobbing PFB sactisfaction. I will discipline in my own way, in my own time. I know what works for my kid.

It doesn't mean we don't care.

What really really gets me, more than anything, is when this translates into bad feeling between parents.

IME, when a kid hits another, the parent of the hitter feels like crap and they actually could do with a bit of support too. not so much a whispering campaign.

And it is exhausting

oh I hate soft play and am in a foul mood, and don't get why this week, as soon as I spend a second with dd, ds has to whack the nearest older girl in a frilly dress with a bouncer father. Actually I do but-aargh

(its filly btw.)

I'd be pissed off if someone's child hit mine and the parent wasn't bothered (with the exception of an SN child and I do know you can't always tell). Yes, they do hit each other, and I don't intervene if it's unnecessary. But parents who ignore really bad behaviour appear to be condoning it. How on earth is the mother of the other child supposed to know you are going to deal with it later? Is she psychic?

At toddler club once, another child wanted to play with the toy kitchen where ds was. Plenty of room for them both but I know 2yos are not reasonable. So wasn't outraged when other child tried to shove ds out of the way. But when other child then pulled ds's hair - really nastily - and wouldn't let go, making ds really cry, I had to intervene. Took some effort to get hair-pulling child off. Parent came over and said in a worried way 'he's going through a phase atm, we are trying not to react'. Fine, but a. how was I supposed to know what discipline technique they are using and b. if you know your child is going through an aggressive phase, why on earth aren't you keeping any eye on them and leaping in to stop them when it happens? Just remove them, I'm not asking for WW3!

Would also be highly pissed off if an older child was attacking a younger and the parents ignored it. Esp. if older child is in the 'under 3' area.

If the other parent does come over, I'll usually send them a 'we've all been there, they all do it, thanks for noticing' weary look. Or say it. But if they notice it and ignore it, I'm pissed off.

I never ever make my son apologise. He is 2.8, doesn't understand the concept of sharing OR apologising.

If any one apologises when he snatches a toy, it's me. Why force a child to do something he is not old enough to understand ? I do TELL him though that he must not push, shove and then snatch toys from other children. He is not a physically aggressive boy, he is the one who usually gets pushed and whacked, but he does snatch toys.

Quite often he will also offer his toy to another child,. It is beacuse he wants them to play with him. But children this age have a short attention span/memory, so things need to be repeated constantly. Sometimes it works somtimes it doesn't.

fonk I so know where you are coming from. I no longer have a 3 year old - my sons are 7 and nearly 13. But boy, do I remeber the random toddler hitting years!

My oldest son hit quite a lot, it was almost 100% because of over excitement, misjudgement of personal space, clumsiness - not malice or intent to bully. Yet my youngest son hit hardly ever. He did tend to push past children if he was running but that was the limit. No change in my parenting style at all, in fact I was much more laid back and less watchful with my second son as I had gone through it all before.

So I really feel for parents who sense they are being blamed by other parents for the apparent 'violent' tendencies of their toddler offspring. IME a lot is down to luck if you get a non hitting todder - not some magic parenting method you have.

As for discipline in front of other parents, I totally agree there is nothing worse than putting on a big show of remorse and punishment to placate the tuttting other parents. Discipline yes, but it should be for your child's benefit first and foremost.

Having suffered the tutts and looks of parents especially those with PFBs, I settled on immediately telling my toddler it was bad to hit other children, making him say sorry if possible. But not making this long and drawn out. If he refused to say sorry, I'd say a quick sorry to the child who had been hit then whisk my son away. I found that saying sorry to the child's parent could occasionally backfire so it in doubt, avoid this. Some parents would see any approach from as their cue to start a big breakdown of what had happened and how bad my son had been. Ok if I needed to know the facts but not ok if I knew them already. I'd also tell ds in a loud voice, designed to carry to the listening parent's ears, that we would now go off alone to have a talk about it (any quiet corner). Then we'd go back to the play area, but sit away from the other parent - unless my toddler was in such a wild mood that leaving was the best option.

That way IMO you are covering all bases, while taking unnecessary drama out of the situation.

ooo PFB annoys the hell out of me. but i think i was like this a bit with dd1. now i have dd3, who always at the bottom of the scrum, or thropwing herslf on top of every child passing i am far far far more relaxed.

she is just 2, and a hair puller. so if she pulls hair, its remove her, 'no we dont pull hair' and put her down on the floor.

PMSL @ this thread

"As for discipline in front of other parents, I totally agree there is nothing worse than putting on a big show of remorse and punishment to placate the tuttting other parents. Discipline yes, but it should be for your child's benefit first and foremost."

Totally agree. Anything you say to your child should be for his benefit.

Misdee and tigermoth have the right approach IMO.

FFS I DO DEAL WITH IT THERE AND THEN! (aargh was trying not to say it)

I disagree though that kids should be disciplined so as to show other parents that the kid has been told off. And that is what I take issue with.

Discipline is about producing better behaviour, not satisfying the crowds desire for a bloodletting.

But this is a parenting issue really. And one thing I have so learnt since having kids is

ALL KIDS ARE DIFFERENT AND WHAT WORKS FOR ONE WON'T WORK FOR THEM ALL

I'm confused here.

Are you upset because the woman expected you to say something but you didn't want to say anything at all the time and wanted to deal with it later?

Or you did say something at the time but the woman didn't feel it went far enough?

PS my oldest son - the randon toddler hitter - is on the whole a peace-loving nearly 13 year old - not at all into fighting or bullying at school.

ok, have a different situation with dd2 though, she is v v v clumsey, lareger than all other 4 yr olds (size of 7yr old dd1). she will just run and knock kids her own age flying. and people dont understand why. she towers above lisad123 PFB (hi sis) and there is just 4months in age between them. at the age of 2 people expected me to disapline her like a 4 year old. it was very very hard. i shouted so many times 'SHE IS ONLY 2!!!'

Yes, I have a nephew who is 14 who used to be a toddler you just wanted to avoid.

He is now a very bright, loving, caring teenager and he loves playing with his younger brother (3) and his little cousin, my son. They look so lovely together

Edam, I'm with you on this one. Why should my child have to suffer because his/her parents have different disciplining techniques? I agree it doesn't have to be the awful "well you're going to say sorry" scenario which is impossible for toddlers to understand, but for a parent to completely ignore another child's distress is unacceptable IMO.

I rememeber making my 2.8 year old say sorry in her own way, be it verbal or a quick hug. Shes now 4 years old and knows hitting, biting ect is wrong and will say sorry if she hurts someone, which she has done.
What age do children start understanding that what they do has an impact on others? Any ideas?
I would admit though it is harder to deal with when the child is not a friends kid, cant remember what I do, LOL, normal say, "no worries, all been there", its just one of those things.

Lisa

That's just it, Oxo, all that's required is for the parents to acknowledge it in some way.

A woman who was a child psychologist told me they don't understand the concept of sharing until at least 4 years old. I have read similar things in a book.

am having a rant, tg

is not about any situation in particular

i have spent a week as the mother of a hitter and it is frazzling and depressing.

I am not leaving the house til ds is utterly well and cheery again

Oh fonk, sorry misunderstood

Completely agree, no disaplining child should be about teaching right and wrong, and nothing about the parents wish to see child punished. Im so embrassed when people make big fuss when their child has hurt DD, would rather just quick "sorry" than a big hoo ha, no need, their only kids. I end up feeling very sorry for the little one that acted like most kids do that age, poor loveies.

lisa

oh and I think the parent apologising to the other parent is pretty much a given, really. I mean, surely?

yr-agree. don't think forced apologising is a great idea really, but have to admit I do do it . Now that is ENTIRELY about social respectablity. Not cos I think it does any good. Yet I feel I have to do it.

Doesn't mean that you shouldn't SAY to them that it is good to share, not to hit, etc. It is good to remind them.

They can HEAR what you say even if their lack of logic means they can't always convert what they hear into positive action.

My absolute worse moment was last summer- ds1 was 7, it was kind of drizzly, so I thought the playground would be empthy-took all 3 boys plus helper- I took ds1, my helper took ds2 and ds3. Ds1 went running in and completely flattened a (???) 3 year old who was eating jelly beans, I mean just ran straight over her, the jelly beans went everywhere, scattered amongst the gravel. My immediate reaction was to stop and start trying to help her, but ds1 kept running. He doesn't respond to his name in that sort of environment.The playground has an exit on one side to moorland and an exit on the other side to a busy road, with a 3rd exit to a car park. My helper ds2 and ds3 were out of reach (so coulnd't get the helper to run after ds1), I couldn't see the mother of the jelly bean girl at all, she was with other children in a group, so I had to leave her and run avfter ds1. No choice. 3 minutes later decided it was far too busy to work and had to try and march all 3 of them out of the park (with ds1 and ds3 howling). Never been back- can't trust that park to be quiet. God knows what we looked like.

missdee - I think your daughter should wear a badge with her age on it
fonk - I'm confused too. Although I agree discipline should be for the benefit of the kids - it's not about making parents feel better. But to an extent, disciplining a toddler is about the parents - you're demonstrating that you have noticed your child has behaved in a less than socially acceptable way and are protecting the other child from further damage so showing that you too acknowledge the role they play as a member of society.
Some people make a ridiculous amount of fuss though. Last time I was at a soft play area I watched this woman trying to teach her toddler to copy the complex activity that a kid of about 4 was doing with some balls. The toddler threw the balls at his mum and ran off.

Filly - I know what you mean. I always apologise to the mother/father/child if ds snatches, usually I TRY to get him to hand back the toy he snatched, doesn't always work though ! He is a stubbord goat like his mummmy

Hi Misdee (sis)

Yep I would agree, your lauren is a lot bigger than my DD (4 months younger), and it is funny seeing them play togteher Sod the ones that assume shes older, you know how old and what works, and yes rememeber you shouting "shes only two" hehe

Lisa

stubborn