I am SO fed up with todder politcs. Kids hit. They wind each other up. Its life.

[Fonk]

We as parents sort it out and discipline as we feel best for the kid.

Sometimes this will not be in front of everyone. I am not going to scream at my 3 yo because it gives a middle aged woman with a sobbing PFB sactisfaction. I will discipline in my own way, in my own time. I know what works for my kid.

It doesn't mean we don't care.

What really really gets me, more than anything, is when this translates into bad feeling between parents.

IME, when a kid hits another, the parent of the hitter feels like crap and they actually could do with a bit of support too. not so much a whispering campaign.

And it is exhausting

oh I hate soft play and am in a foul mood, and don't get why this week, as soon as I spend a second with dd, ds has to whack the nearest older girl in a frilly dress with a bouncer father. Actually I do but-aargh

(its filly btw.)

To be somewhat contentious here. If you knowthat your toddler or child is going through a phase of doing very socially unacceptable and nasty things such a biting then I think they should be kept away from situatuions where they are very likely to cause injury and distess to other children.
It is simply not fair to the other children is it?
I cannot for the life ogf me understand why parents, knowing say that their children will bite, then take them to a soft play area. It's completely irresponsible behaviour imo.

This is funny... Why do my kids always shove the ones in the prettiest (most impractical) dresses, when the parents are just removing the cotton wool..
IME with ds1, the kids that he's had a bit of a shove with is usually the one he ends up playing with, sometimes before they learn basic social skills like saying "hello can I play with you" a bit of pushing & shoving is just a way of getting some attention, as long as its not nasty (& we all know our kids)they will sort it out for themselves.
With ds2 (sn) its a different story I'm the sweaty unfit mother trying to climb to the top of the slide with him.

i say PFB in a y y way.

well they can take them but they need to supervise them closely

well I suppose, kitty, because otherwise they never get to go out

and because, having spent a week of this, my god it is parents who have hitters who need the social support.

kitty I agree.

Either don't take them, or supervise them really closely.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to put themselves through the work of supervising really closely at one of these hideous places. But I'm lazy

lol lisad, i think both dh and similar in heights. and i am taller than you

I think bitng just seems a lot more thought out or personal (not talking just children here) I know lots more things could cause a bleed, but biting nard enough to cause bleeding meaning biting bloodly hard, or being a vamp!
I think there is nothijng wrong with teaching children to say sorry in their own way, that way when they are old enough to fully understand concept, they know why they are saying sorry.

lisa

We go out.

But to soft play centres? Why?

Am I a wierdie? I never go to these places, they're vile. It simply doesn't occur to me. The only time my kids go there, is for birthday parties. They seem ot get along fine without them.

kitty, because i cant supervise 3 at once lol. so one of them (never dd1 she is soooo good PFB, and all that ) and soft play is sometimes all my kdis get due to home circumstances, cant take them swimming, or family outing to the park etc etc. if its raining then its soft play. and keep an eye. i am not going to kept inside just because dd2 may accidently shove a kid over when running knocking them flying and into something. or dd3 may pull some other kids hair.

that is actually very interesting lisa

I doubt it is more thought out, personally

Personally I don't think a 3 yo is really capable of premediation. or perhaps thats just mine

I agree it is rather a horrible crime, both psychologically and in terms of the connortations. And I HAVE felt a bit more wobbly when my kids have been bitten, if I am honest.

But can find no rational reason for doing so. I don't think there is much difference in intent surely, and that must be what matters.

Can see both sides here. ATM we have a situation at our school bus stop where two brothers (6&4) are repeatedly barging into, kicking, pushing other children. They then get laid into by not only their own mother but another child's father who will stand over them and demand apologies from them All rather OTT and I'm not quite sure why their mother hasn't told the other bloke to back off

OTOH my children are often on the receiving end and frankly I get rather p*ed off when my 1 yo is knocked flying and ends up with a bleeding nose and face. The mother knows her children race round like dervishes so I wish she would at least attempt to keep an eye on them and hold on to them if necessary. Sorry, have hijacked with my own rant

i think i had similar experiences with you mimizan. i know how it feels.

I dont agree that if a child is going though a "biting" phase, you should keep them away from soft play. What about SN kids who might always need extra support in managing behaviour.
I took a group of 8 special needs kids to soft play, on a staurday and parents avioded us like you wouldnt believe, and when one of our group started crying and screaming because she couldnt manage crowd and noise, we got all sorts of looks!!

Sorry but why punish a kid because they "might" bite, hit ect, they havent done it yet!! Just keep close eye.

Lisa

i dont think biting is more thought out, i think its just a reaction, a primative reaction even. dd3 has bitten but usually when she is playing and over excited. not in a malicious way.

My DD has been bitten and bit herself, and at neither event did i suffer a psychological crisis because of it. Biting is the same as hitting, pushing, kicking etc. in its intent. IE there isn't an intent, there's just a small person wanting what they want and not having the social skills to know how to get it. The effect may be different, but I don't think a different motive should be attributed.

BTW not taking them to a soft play center isn't a punishment. They don't expect to go, unless it's someone's birthday.

Teaching my son at 2.8 to parrott a word is not useful. Teaching to say things he doesn't mean is not useful. I would like him to know WHY he is saying what he says WHEN he says it.

I have relatives/friends he talk crap sometimes, they say things when they don't mean it or when they have not actually thought about what they are saying. I don't want ds to be like that. So may be that is why I feel strongly about this.

Dh and I are very much into teaching by "example". He WILL learn to say sorry because he sees us saying sorry.

When I say to a parent or child sorry when ds snatches a toy (he never lashes out physically and doesn't bite) I actually mean it. If DS said it at his age he wouldn't mean it.

My view.

another issue, imo, is that it is not always known that a kid will go on to have SN in the future, if that makes sense

so some of todays rampant hitters, biters, etc will probably be later discovered to have SN.

Early diagnosis for stuff like ADHD is rare, IME (I think also AS etc?) and usually only by 3 or so if there is an affected sibling?

Message withdrawn

I know doc dont like giving ADHD ect, until aged 5years because of the possibaility that behaviours is justnormal toddler behaviour. Lisa

yr am listening to what you say and I think it is interesting

the thing is, tbh, I am not especially impressed by an apology from a young kid. I don't think they feel sorry, they know they have to say it.

But I make my 3.6 yo say sorry as a social convention. I am clear to them that it is a social convention. I am not convinced either way on this one really, its just going with the flow.

DS completetly ignores other kids at soft play. Because it is a big space all he wants to do is run around.

I find playgroup a pain. It is a small confined space with children fighting over the same toys. I have stopped going to playgroup and only go to pools, soft ball, parks, zoo, etc where there are no specific toys to fight over. Depends on the child I guess.

oh have remembered what I do with dd, I knew I did something (NSB syndrome)

I ask her to say sorry because it makes ds (the only person she ever hits) feel better.

I don't expect her to feel sorry on demand, I think thats unrealistic

with ds I do also require an apology to make x feel better and also cos its what we do when we make someone feel bad, but really do a lot more talking about why x would feel sad because they were hurt. I find that's where the message goes in really.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a world of difference taking a child out who might or might not push, shove get into a bit of argy bargy and taking one out you know is almost guranteed to cause distress and injury to other children.
All toddlers and preschoolers are unpredictable and all are learning. That's how it is.
Now would it be ok to take a dog out to a public place that was a biter? No it wouldn't. I am not saying a biting dog and biting child are the same. What I am saying is is that if you know it is likely to happen then to have a social responsibility to proctect others from a child that will bite, will attack other children etc.

Filly - I totally understand your point of view and respect it ! I had to think long and hard about what I am doing, there is no RIGHT or WRONG way on this one. I think kids need to be polite and considerate and they must learn it from their parents. It doesn't matter HOW they learn it. The important thing is they have to learn to have good social skills, I agree with that totally