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Something very wrong with 3 1/2 year old bilingual DS.

224 replies

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 09:49

Something is clearly very wrong with our 3 1/2 year old bilingual DS.

The biggest concern for us is the difference between the nursery setting and the outside nursery setting in both language and behaviour. He is the youngest in the class (August 12) and was used to one to one (Mum and Nannies) until September.

Outside nursery: DS is a bit shy (just like my husband), but happy and chatty. He mixes languages but speaks in full sentences (you can have a proper conversation)., is very playful with us and the Nanny, and is becoming more and more confident; eg. very confident outdoors and in swimming lessons, happy and playing with (not alongside) other children in playdates and also okay in the hustle and bustle of of his swimming class. He is intuitive and caring and always knows when people are sad, etc. He is also cuddly and loves dancing with his Nanny and is very keen on animals, play-doh, story time and all types of vehicles.

Inside the nursery: Nursery teacher tells me he can't speak at all. When he speaks (he has to report his news in front of all the other children and then doesn't want to say much), then the teacher says he talks gibberish and looks away when she talks to him. He seems to only want to play with cars and doesn't talk to other children. However, he is confident outdoors and we had several comments in his little book that he was "chatty" with his friends with doesn't quite tally. We were also told that he can't sit still for long (which he can do at home) and became "fidgety" after 40 minutes in their recent church assembly.

A relative who knows DS well is a primary school teacher and confirms that he is shy and a bit behind with his English "as to be expected for a bilingual child" but not concerned that he is any special needs issues such as autism. Relative works in a "deprived" area and has worked with autistic, special needs etc children and many bilinguals. She also says that the DS' nursery seems to be "hothousing", i.e. learning things they would only cover in reception in the state sector. However, can this really make such a difference to him? He is doing fine with his letters when at home and now even ok with the teacher.

The Nanny, whom our son adores, says he is tensing up after nursery and doesn't want her to leave in the morning when she takes him there. He also told her (and us) repeatedly that he is scared of the teacher and hides from her in the toilet. In the morning he now asks whether it is a Mummy and Daddy day and when he is told it is a school day, he only says "oh". He has also told me that he wants to go to the "purple school in the fields where the children are happy" and not to his nursery. We just don't know where that is (he may have dreamt this up). What worries me most was that when I said to him that something was "normal", he looked very worried and said that "DS is not normal, no!". I have no idea why he would say that. He also has started to have recurring nightmares (last few weeks screaming "no" and shaking when he wakes). This is new since January.

His Nanny says he is a normal playful little boy and only 3.5 years old and she, in essence, thinks that we should consider moving him to another school (somewhere where "can be a child") and he would be fine and happy again. I can't be that easy.

How can we help him? It worries me how is changing so much and is so different at school. I have contacted a medical centre that specialises in special needs children but wanted to hear from other mothers.

OP posts:
Chislemum · 11/02/2016 14:32

@outputgap your DD sounds a lot like my DS. I also feel they got it in for him. Maybe he is more work. Nanny says he doesn't fit into their box, so is an issue. I guess she is right.

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 11/02/2016 14:35

I wonder does he watch Peppa Pig? The school there is purple/pink, and the children always end up rolling around laughing? Could be completely wrong of course!

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 14:36

@CultureSucksDownWords I wondered about the same. He used to watch Peppa a lot.

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GirlInTheDirtyShirt · 11/02/2016 14:40

Love, you know that this nursery isn't right. It's not your little boy at all. Trust in yourself and get him out of there.

ewbank · 11/02/2016 14:46

Just to add my DS is the same age as yours and bilingual. He often talks "gibberish" just to amuse himself. I think it's a mix of sounds from both languages (although no words). I don't know why he does it, I tend to think he's just trying out noises in both languages! It's not something I ever thought to worry about as, like your DS, he can also make himself perfectly well understood in both languages.

I think it's normal and it's your nursery that's the issue.

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 14:49

@ewbank I wondered about that too. Thank you!!!! When DS speaks in either language he sounds "native". I think I will speak to the Nursery about their lack of understanding of bilingualism and find DS a new nursery/school. I think DH is on board to move DS but we disagree on when.

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ewbank · 11/02/2016 14:53

I've just read some more and see our kids both speak the same languages WinkSmile

If the nursery worker only has GCSE I'd DEFINITELY give her the big fuck off, as imho there's no way a nursery worker with no more than GCSE level German could adequate understand a 3 year old. Not a hope.

I'm the reverse of you - DS is in kindy. You feel so powerless when dealing with a "foreign" system. I get a lot of "that's just how it works here" and you just aren't equipped to argue.

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 14:58

@ewbank I think I will have to find out whether Nursery worker speaks German (I forgot to not mention the language) since I am paranoid about the school reading this. (sad state of affairs)

DS will say things such as "The Flugzeug is flying high in the sky, above the clouds". Or he will say "The Rakete is flying to the moon, with Mami and [DS name], going to land on the Mond, eating cheese, Kaese". Makes sense to me.

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Chislemum · 11/02/2016 14:59

PS cheese on the moon reference is from Wallace and Gromit.

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ewbank · 11/02/2016 15:07

Yup DS is the same. You really have to speak both languages to understand him!

he is currently singing nonsense nursery rhymes which segue seamlessly from an English rhyme to a German one, with a fair bit of nonsense in between. Luckily I am able to tune him out!

OzzieFem · 11/02/2016 15:10

Perhaps the 'purple school where the children are happy' are from a book that has been read to your son?

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 15:14

@ewbank This is helpful. I have honestly not been thinking that he had any serious issues of any kind so far. I have read a few books on bilingualism, etc and he seemed spot on. The avoiding of the teacher, avoiding eye contact and withdrawing seems to me a reaction to feeling "different" and being "scrutinized". Oh dear.

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ewbank · 11/02/2016 15:19

Time to shop for a new nursery...

Scone1nSixtySeconds · 11/02/2016 15:25

chisle I cannot add more than encouragement to you. Your Ds sounds like an engaging little soul. And you sound like a great mother too. Flowers

I removed my DD from her primary school when at the Christmas of her Year 5. She was 10. It was a new teacher and my poor DD just could not understand why the teacher acted as if she was hated. My DH was aboard at the time and thought it was a mistake.

I got a lot of hassle from other parents. I was told it was good practice to have a teacher who disliked you. That it was only 18 months.

Well, I fundamentally disagreed and did home ed until a place came up at another school.

Within six weeks of starting at the new school she was a different child. After 3 months my neighbour stopped me to say how pleased she was to see the difference. After 6 months her anxiety had ramped down so much that her new school (which had arranged counselling for her) had made her a prefect.

The atmosphere of a school, so much more than its results, affect fundamentally the mental health of our DC.

Scone1nSixtySeconds · 11/02/2016 15:26

So many typos. Blush

hedgehogsdontbite · 11/02/2016 15:27

My DS is just 3 and also bilingual. Reading the first part of your OP was so like reading about my DS. He is funny and chatty and outgoing at home but as quiet as a mouse at nursery, so much so that they were concerned.

The difference though is that they communicated with me, recognised that it is do with his dual language and the setting, and then have worked hard to address this to help build him up. They've even gone so far as setting up a little group (him and two older children from the school next door) who all have the same native language because they say it's very important that he knows they value and support both his languages.

Also he's very happy to go in. He loves his teachers and they clearly love him. Your son's nursery don't sound very caring at all. I'd be sending him somewhere else too. Send him to a nursery he loves, not one where he'd rather be in the toilets.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/02/2016 15:28

Please just take him out. He is a toddler, he shouldn't be this unhappy. He sounds completely fine. The jumbling up of the two languages is normal, my dds are bilingual and they still do this with the odd word even though they are much older, they also talk in their sleep in a mix of the two, or either. He sounds like a bright and sensitive little boy, so either have him at home for another year, where he can play and be happy, or find a nursery where they focus on kindness. Perhaps he could go to nursery one morning a week, or two, but spend the rest of his time at home? He is so very little! He sounds perfectly fine, he is just scared and anxious at his nursery.

Fannini · 11/02/2016 15:36

Yes, what I mean is that I think it's normal for children of this age to make up words or speak quickly or not form words properly all the time, which can sound like 'gibberish' to adults. Sometimes I have no idea what my DS is on about even though, like your DS, at other times his speech is perfectly clear and he demonstrates good wide ranging vocabulary and can use lots of longer words in context. He also talks about things that are imaginary so sometimes it's initially hard to determine what he is talking about. But, having said that I don't think he's abnormal or that there is anything particularly 'wrong' with him. He's polite, he listens, he follows instructions he seems cognitively fine. I just thin your nursery sound like they are being too harsh and may have unrealistic expectations. Of course eye contact and listening skills and so on are to be encouraged but they don't come naturally to everyone and they have to be nurtured not bullied out of people.

I don't know how adding being bilingual into the mix affects this but I think there are plenty of people here who have brought their children up this way and can give more insight!

I think you are right to seek qualified assessment to set your mind at rest and get the right kind of help if it's necessary but at the same time your DS deserves better than intolerant and scary staff. As the poster above says even the 'best' nurseries or schools just don't suit every child and we have plenty of friends who will testify to that - including those who have sent them to the same league table leading London preps we have.

iPost · 11/02/2016 15:44

The "talking gibberish" rang a large bell.

DS is Italian/English bilingual, he was born and has always lived in Italy.

Around the time of kindergarten we noticed that when he felt pressured to speak, especially to people he didn't know that well , or feel completely at home with... he would babble something incomprehensible in reply.

It wasn't recognisable as either language. Maybe a word here or there. But it was utter gibberish. What was wierd was that it was the Italian, becuase ... there was nobody else around to engage with him in English bar me. So Italian was his stronger language during those first few years at school.

I was so worried, and the only professional advice I ever got was "drop the English, you are confusing him".

Which I didn't do.

It stopped completely around the time he started primary school, so six-ish.

He is 15 now, soon to sit an IGCSE in English, wholly proficent in Italian and has added another two languages to his range.

I'm not saying don't investigate. But I am saying you are not alone and it isn't always a clear sign that anything is "wrong" as such. Or at least nothing so "wrong" that it can't possibly be resolved..

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 15:45

@Fannini DS is fine with eye contact with others, indeed actively welcomes people, etc. Just apparently not at Nursery. He and his nanny also get on super well. He adores her, very sweet.

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Chislemum · 11/02/2016 15:47

@iPost Nursery said he was talking "gibberish". I understand him but at nursery he sounds like you describe your DS' history. Nanny says she has proper conversations with him and she is English.

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iPost · 11/02/2016 16:09

Chisle

Yeah DS's ".gibberish" really was .. gibberish. He spoke English fine with me, not a huge vocab, but fine. His Italian with DH, in laws, friends he knew well, again fine. But when his confidence wobbled in the face of pressure or ".people I don't feel 100% at home with".... nonsense came out of his mouth.

I don't know, but do suspect, that out of my hearing somebody told him he didn't speak Italian well, or made a big deal over some English word that ended up muddled in an Italian sentence. And he suddenly developed a kind of insecurity.

Footle · 11/02/2016 16:12

Please don't tell him to make eye contact with someone he doesn't like, and who doesn't seem to like him. It's going against his self-protective radar. It sounds as if there's nothing wrong with this little chap, but a lot wrong with the nursery m

Chislemum · 11/02/2016 16:13

@iPost so really, it was that one situation that was an issue. I know the Nursery makes DS feel not normal since he even said it to me "[DS] is not normal, no!"

Yes, we will find a new nursery/school. Thanks for being so kind iPost

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iPost · 11/02/2016 16:15

No problem love.

I remember exactly how it felt

This bilingual thing can be a lot harder on people emotionally in real life than it ever looked on paper.