My 10yo DS will not speak to me.

[Remirez]

My 10 yo hasn't said a word to me for 4 days, his behaviour has started to deteriorate at school as well, the reason behind this is that he wants to go and live with his Dad which is never going to happen.

Him not speaking to me, ignoring me and being rude to my partner is nothing new but the non talking has never gone on for 4 days, I am at the end of my tether now.

Can I just have some advice on how to handle this situation, as well as the deterioration at school as his teacher is very concerned and has started asking questions. I'm open to any questions and I handle criticism very well.

Yes I agree remirez, it may just make the situation worse.

It will make his behaviour worse in the short term but that's always the case when children experience boundaries becoming firmer.

He won't be any happier for feeling that he can make promises to get things then throw those promises back in your face with no consequences.

Children desperately need the adults around them to be in control in order to feel safe. If they have few boundaries, the world is a confusing, unpredictable place and they throw their weight around in the hope that someone will bring them back to order.

You had an agreement that he would behave better if you bought him the game. It would have been better to give him some easily achieved behaviour targets to earn the game but you didn't, you gave it to him and relied on him keeping his promise. This promise wasn't specific or time bound so he had an unachievable task ahead of him.

You need to remind his of the promise and his subsequent behaviour then remove the game, giving him a way he can earn some time back on it by specific examples good behaviour. Make it simple and fairly easy for him and the reward could be to have the game back for a short period after school hours today.

This isn't going to solve the issue of his worries about the new family structure but being allowed to ride roughshod over you without consequences is only going to make things worse.

I know from personal experience how hard this is. You don't want to upset and already distressed child but he needs you to be in charge and show him that you won't be pushed around by him or the new partner or the baby. That will make him feel better about the future.

Gold- I agree that children need boundaries in order to feel safe. They also need adults to be in control, I wouldn't dispute that for one moment.

It is a modern fashion to think this needs to come about by a system of reward and punishment- and while this may work for some children it may not always be the most appropriate tool.

I don't punish my children, or indeed extrinsically reward good behaviour. My eldest is nearly 17 and has never been punished.

I don't punish my husband or elderly mother either.

Goldmandra have you really read this thread? This is not just about parenting, its about avery unhappy boy who is lashing out.

Please Remirez - got to your GP and request a refferal. Some family counselling, some counselling for your son and some advice (and maybe a parenting course) - could all help you both. If he won't talk to you (and that means politely) then please find him someone he will talk to, and that may well be via the GP (and possibly CAMHS).

He is in a situation where he is feeling powerless, and he doesn't know how to express his feelings. Please get him help (not things).

You sound like a compete pushover and he knows it. You need to start parenting him. Your son needs help and you need to get it for him. I can't believe that you treat him to new computer games when he has behaved appallingly, and he's sitting home playing his new computer game when he should be at school and youre wondering why he doesn't respect you? How much longer do you think your partner will put up with this? Your son said he wants to kill himself. What are you doing to help him?

I know from personal experience how hard this is. You don't want to upset and already distressed child but he needs you to be in charge and show him that you won't be pushed around by him or the new partner or the baby. That will make him feel better about the future

I think this is for the future, bridges must be repaired, perhaps a go between for you both to enable discussion of problems and feelings and a real understanding of the issues before trying to enforce boundaries. A kindly GP might be a start, speak to the school, child psychologist??

If you keep doing what you've always done you'll get what you've always got.

The tactics you've used before haven't worked, why do you think continuing to do the same will make things better? You need a change in how you respond. I agree you both need support but being upset and confused doesn't mean you can write off his appalling behavior, let alone reward it with new games. You're letting him rule the roost. Yes he will behave badly when you put your foot down but eventually he will respect you which he clearly doesn't at the moment. He's told you categorically he doesn't think he has to listen to you, and he's right at the moment he doesn't he gets to do whatever he wants, staying at home all day playing new computer games. He probably thinks if he pushes you enough you will end your relationship, you've said yourself he's already caused it to be strained.

If you wait for psychological support before enforcing boundaries it will be months down the line and he will be even further off the rails. CAMHS are not miracle workers. They cannot replace the safety and security a child gets from knowing that their parent can manage them and manage the future for them.

He needs help to get his head round his future relationships and the family as a whole need support with communication but being allowed to sit at home playing computer games and screaming abuse at anyone who crosses him is going to mess with his head.

This sounds awful for everybody. Is ask my child to call their dad and ask to live there if that's what they wanted that badly. Your ds needs to be told from the horse's mouth so to speak, otherwise he'll think it's just you deciding it and he's clearly holding it against you.

Yes discipling them is hard, and he will really resist it, of course he will, he's never had it before and he doesn't want it. It has to be done though, if it teaches him only that even if you're angry with someone you can't do that to them.

And all in the meantime is take him to the dr for a referral to a child mental health service.

Gold whilst I agree with you re boundaries, I also think that applying punishments wo a second thought, just because you need to establish boundaries is wrong.

I had a dc who had very regular meltdowns. He was younger than the one of the OP so we never had the 'I hate you' type of reaction but he used to be aggressive and hit his brother on a daily basis.
Punishing would have NOT helped in anyway. He was out of control, in his own words as a 6yo. What helped was supporting him. Not condoning his behaviour but helping him 1- recovering from his meltdowns and 2- finding ways to control his emotions.
I also had another dc with bounding issues who was playing up big way. Again the answer has never been punishment (It made things worse) but more the 'love bombing' sometimes described on MN, ie spending lots of time showing him I loved him.
The main issue for me is that, with a situation like the OP, she would only spend her time punishing her ds days on end with little effect because he is unlikely to just 'snap out of it'. The result would be a relationship that would deteriorate further.

Remirez in your last example, what strikes me is the fact that there was little hope for him to manage to change his behaviour that much just for a game. So he told you that he would behave knowing that it's your weak point, got what he wanted and then carried on with his behaviour. Punishing him for not sticking to his agreement would be wrong imo because I don't think he can stick to it atm.
However, you can think ahead and refuse to enter in that sort of agreement. If you want to give him a game, do it. Don't do it in the vague hope it will change things just to be disappointed after. Don't do it to try and make him happy/happier. Things don't make people happy in the long term.
I would really think carefully about anything he asks you to do and try and see the reason why. He is asking for a game. id he want a game? Or did he want that you show him some positive attention? Did he want to reassure himself that you still love him?
He is screaming and insulting you? Again what is he actually saying? That he really hates you? That he is hurting, what is difficult?
You need to address the questions and worries that lie behead all the screaming, not the screaming itself.

Oh and for all those saying 'he needs boundaries, start by parenting him' and at the same time 'go and see you GP to be referred to CAMHS'.

If this child has indeed some MH issues of some sort (such as high anxiety), then surely the 'just discipling him' isn't going to be answer??
And if the discipline was the only issue, then a parenting course would the right approach.

OP btw, I agree about the fact he will take ages to get your referral to CAMHS unless he is at immediate risk of harm. You might really want to look at family counselling/child psychologist privately in the mean time.

I am going to book an appointment with the doctors today, I still can't get him to school. His reason is he wants to stay home and doesn't want to leave the house, I have got things to do myself today which I can't because he isn't going to want to come with me.

Yes as pathetic as it may sound, I have always given him what he wants within reason, if he asks for something I normally just go out and buy it the same day, if the shops are shut he knows he will get it the next day.

I need to put a shop to this, I don't know if any of you realise how horrible it is when your own child doesn't listen to you.

His behaviour is putting strain on me and my relationship, I am dreading the new baby coming.

Glad you are going to see the GP.
I think that the family needs professional help with a lot of things.

I think mummytime has condensed this thread into what is needed to be done.

Kinsorange It is going to be a struggle getting him to the doctors.

He has said he wants to kill himself - if you can get him to talk about that with the GP it should speed things up. And if you think there is any chance he may try to harm himself, or he does self-harm - take him to A and E. That should speed things up.

Remirez - a lot of people here do know what its like in similar situations (quite a lot of others don't have a clue).

Try to make space, so if he is ready to talk, you can drop stuff and listen. Is there an aunt/uncle or someone else he might be able to talk to?

Good for you for making the GP appointment.

I am not sure that he himself needs to be at the doctors. It would be useful, but if you cant get him there, still go yourself. It is very important that you still go.

I also think that applying punishments wo a second thought, just because you need to establish boundaries is wrong

It should never be without a second thought. It should be done in the right way in a careful and constructive manner.

If you turn up at a CAMHS appointment with a child who has no boundaries and is permitted to behave in the way this child is behaving with no consequences, CAMHS will put the whole thing down to inadequate behaviour management and send you on a parenting course.

If this child has indeed some MH issues of some sort (such as high anxiety), then surely the 'just discipling him' isn't going to be answer??
And if the discipline was the only issue, then a parenting course would the right approach.

Managing children's mental health involves giving them a safe secure base and clear, achievable expectations. You can't separate the two issues in this way. It is far more complex than that.

'Just' disciplining isn't the answer but not disciplining will make everything harder.

Mummytime

I think he was just saying he wants to kill himself, I don't think he meant it. He is close to one of my friends, I asked him he is would like her to come around, but he said she's not allowed here anymore.

OP, you also need to demonstrate to the EWO that you are using appropriate behaviour management to get him into school or they will assume you are condoning his refusal and commence action against you.

It would be a good idea to keep a diary of his behaviour, his school refusals, how you are managing it and how he is responding to that. It will give you evidence for the EWO and CAMHS.

Goldmandra is spot on. I have a child in camhs and while they will help the child through their emotions/feelings they will very much be looking at the parent/s.
A child with anxiety can also be an expert manipulator (cause and effect; he behaves badly mum gives in/he asks for something he gets because mum wants to avoid arguments), and in this case it does sound you need to try and assert boundaries, if you don't feel confident about it, ask for help to get that direction.
At the same time, it's vital that you go to your gp to get a referral as he sounds like he is really struggling now. A child with anxiety/upset will often be angry.
Don't avoid him because you don't know how to deal with the situation. He doesn't know how to deal with his emotions and needs to know that you will not take any crap but you love him and you will always be there to help him.

Again totally spot on Goldmandra re education welfare officer. I'm sure I would have been in court long ago had I not shown this.

When a 10 year old child says they want to kill themselves I would take it very seriously especially as he is displaying other symtoms of stress/anxiety.

It's not up to him who comes into your house, he is 10.

Sorry, just re-read my post and realise it's sounds rather matter of fact, unkind and not very explanatory, sorry, school run rush!

Someone up thread mentioned that if you don't have a reasonable, structured discipline strategy in place then children's mental health services may be dismissive and put it down to parenting choices. Not saying that's right but quite possible.

The only experience I have of this is that my db (now in mid 20s) was labelled as a naughty boy with no control from his parents. By a child psychologist. He was actually ASD and my parents had already worked this out so knew that "standard" discipline techniques were hopeless and needed help with teaching an ASD child with what is and isn't acceptable within the confinement a of his disability.

Eventually they were listened to and showed the professionals with video recordings that they were trying and they were given tools and techniques and life became a bit more manageable.

OP, please don't think I'm trying to suggest your ds has ASD or similar or that even you aren't doing enough. Just that sometimes to be listened to you have to show that you have at least tried and not given in, which by your own admission you have.

I think considering his extreme behaviours (not talking to you for 4 days/not wanting to leave the house/saying he wants to kill himself whether or not he means it is irrelevant). You are doing the right thing by seeing your GP.

OP, would you have money to be able to pay for a child psychologist? As NHS waiting times can unfortunately be very long, and it sounds like things need to get start improving quickly, certainly before the baby comes.