slapping or no slapping?

[Vindaloo]

I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?

I might tap a colleague on the hand if we are in a meeting & I want to get her attention without speaking - can't see how that tap would be useful in anyway shape or form with getting the attention of a child in a situation requiring discipline.
I can only presume that "tap" is being used here as a more aurally acceptable version of "hit"!!!

I know my mum would never have hit me with the force she would use on an adult, and of course neither would any other decent parent who just happens to smack. I know plenty of well-adjusted children who were smacked as a last resort. I also know one woman who hit her child so hard she left a great big red mark on her leg, and I think we all know that that is NOT typical of parents who smack.

fair enough speedymama. I would never level those charges against anyone unless I was 100% sure that is what they were. I don't see parents who hit their kids that way. I just feel sad.

im torn on this one as I do worry about my anger management sometimes and I know for a fact that when i smack its because ive lost it for a split second. I always regret it although on the other hand its the only thing that works sometimes - both sides of this arguement ring true for me but must admit i am looking at ways of "end of tether" discipline other than smacking? I think this is more about the personality traits of the adult rather than the discipline options as I want to be the one who never smacks yet cannot help it sometimes

The terrible twos. It's a tough time as every parent will know. Don't want to make you feel bad but to be honest with you, I think there's never any situation where it's acceptable to raise your hand against a child. There aren't any easy answers about how to deal with difficult behaviour. Hope you find something that works for you.

Greensleeves, when I say tap I mean tap, like I tap away DH hand when he won't keep his hands of something, only I use a milder form with the boys.

I don't appreciate your implication that you think that it is anything more than that.

I feel that the people who do smack are actually the ones who are getting a little terse and defensive about this subject.
Some pople are atarting to put words in thos of us who disagree with smackigns mouths.
I think smacking a child can be comparable to a man hitting his wife they are both about control and fear.
If you threaten to smack your child it is about contorlling them into doing what you said is wrong and the fear of the pain is hopefully enough to stop the behaviour.
Same goes the other way really.
My children to not hold authority over this house we as parents have our rules and methods of discipline and all of this has been achieved without corporal punishment.
I do not feel the need to bully and frighten my children into submission just because I am the adult here.

Agree with bugsy and don't think she comes across as aggressive at all. I don't smack and don't think it's necessary or desirable. I don't personally resent my parents particularly for slapping me every now and then, though it certainly wasn't pleasant, because it was usually the result of stress showing up their parenting weaknesses. I remember feeling openly scornful of that weakness at the time. As a parent now I understand that it's not that easy and no one's perfect and I am forgiving of parents who loved me and did their best. But that's different from thinking "Woo hoo. How glad I am that I was smacked because boy, I needed it and didn't it help me learn. hurrah hurrah."

And we've had this debate on mumsnet many many times before and you will find that there are plenty of posters on here who were also smacked in "culturally normal" ways for the age they were brought up in (i.e. slapped on the hand/arse every now and then, not beaten within an inch) and are still devastated and humiliated by the memory of that as adults. Unusual perhaps, but it does happen. And does anyone really, honestly, remember feeling educated and enlightened by their parents hitting their bum or hand? The best I could say of it as a life lesson is that it taught me to recognise that adults, even ones I love and who love me, have temper tantrums, are capable of losing it to the point of violence when tired and frustrated or simply being rigidly uncreative, ineffective and heavy handed with discipline occassionally. As an adult, I am now good at judging when an awkward question is askable and when it might make already stressed people fast forward to explosion point. Quite useful in my line of work but not, I think, a lesson my parents intended to teach me via their smacks. If I ever knew what they were trying to teach me with those, I have, I'm afraid, long forgotten.

Sorry, I disagree. There is a world of difference between beating someone up and administering a smack to a naughty child.
I think a 'tap' is pointless. Of course it has to hurt to a degree, what would be the point otherwise? It's just the same with telling off verbally. The amount of parents I have seen telling their children of whilst SMILING!!! Good grief, that's really going to bang the message home good and straight!
As was pointed out earlier why is a smack an issue when verbal bullying is ignored. And yes I wish British police had powers to slap thugs and criminals. Things are far too soft in this country and we are really paying the price.
Human rights act? What alot of complete and utter cr*p.

Wow, what a long and interesting thread, It's taken me ages to read it.

As Kittywits knows I have tried very hard not to smack my son, used all the techniques recommended by the childcare experts to discipline him and deal with his temper and determined character, but it didn't work, and I have recently changed my technique.

Since the summer holidays began he has been smacked 3 times, for showing a complete lack of respect for me and my wishes (including door slamming, hitting me, and throwing things at me). I have used smacking in conjunction with locking him in his room, and our school summer holiday has been much better than I expected.

I was dreading it, but in the space of four weeks and just 3 smacks he has finally come to realise that being told 'NO' is not a cue to rampage round the house slamming doors and yelling at his mother.
This is a child who was totally unimpressed by threats of "If this behaviour carries on you won't get ...." becos he would just ignore it and spite himself. He would do without whatever it was, for the satisfaction of having a good rage. After the rage was over he would say sorry, and expect all to be right with the world (and us).

A short measured slap STOPS him from decsending into that rage, and getting completely out of control.
In addition he actually has respect and regard for me. for example if we are eating and he wants his drink refilling, he doesn't look at me and ask for another drink as he used to, he asks to leave the table to get a drink, and asks if we want anything.
He doesn't do this out of fear. He is happy and smiling while he does it. He has actually started to understand how the parent-child relationship is supposed to work. We are in charge, he is not, which is a much more comfortable situation for a 6 y.o. to manage.

Now Bugsy, maybe dh and I did something wrong when he was younger, and if we had got that right we wouldn't have to be here now.
But we are here now, at the start of the summer we were in a parlous state with him, which we are successfully turning round, by using corporal punishment in a calm and reasoned way.

And I do agree that you should never just 'HIT OUT' at your child in a rage. That is when discipline slips over into abuse.

Sorry went on a very long time

I know that I think that its not acceptable to hit a child but then end up with the odd smack here and there - its not very often at all but I envy the ones on here who have never hit as I would rather be in that camp IYKWIM !

Had friend and her dd here this morning and was really shocked by the extremely loud shouting and eventual resounding smack (that left a very red mark) that my friend did to her dd and have spent the last hour determined that I will never smack again. Maybe actually seeing the action makes it sink in although cannot beleive she smacked her so hard

speedmama, I am interested as to why you feel that you have to justify or explain you acitons to others.

I think thats true, i heard a lady yelling and telling her biy off in a cafe yesterday and sat thinking, i'd never be so cruel and short tempered but i bet i've been at least as bad. Must try harder.

oh and the child that was shouted at constantly and then smacked does the same shouting to others and nearly hit out at her mum a few times which I dont suppose is surprising !

I have a question for everyone who was smacked as a child. What would your parents say if you smacked your child? I only ask because I know my mother would be horrified (not that I'd take any notice, I hasten to add)! My kids must be nicer than I was hee hee

Clumsymum, so glad you're having a better time of it. You know I never considered my parents smacks as out of control abuse from weak willed parents. I considered that I had been naughty and out of order. I never resented them and I knew not to go that far again. it seems as if your son is thinking the same way. He knows when you mean business and respects that.
A friend of mine recently told me a story of an exasperated mother who, in order to stop a major tantrum from her 8 year old daughter,( bit old for tantrums perhaps) threw a glass of water over her!! Something I hadn't considered before!!

Kittywits, you are right. I don't need to justify myself or actions. TBH I can't believe that I allowed myself to get sucked into doing that because I normally don't do that.

think my post comes across as smug. sorry. I am just as falliable a parent as my parents, I should add. Stress causes me to shout rather than hit so far though. Also I'm not arguing that my parents smacking was similar to anyone on this thread's the norm or that mumsnetters children will learn the same things from being smacked as I did. I have found that adults are very varied in what they remember feeling and learning from the way their parents chose to discipline though.

The amount of parents I have seen telling their children of whilst SMILING!!!

But Kitty by saying this it just reinforces what I suggested earlier on that it is not the lack of smacking that is making other children agressive or misbehaving it is the lack of appropriate discipline.
I am not going to comdemn anybosy who parents like this but I am genuinly curious as to how you can justify the fact that you are getting your own way by actually and it has been admitted by actually causing pain to another person. That is what I don't understand. And yes it is all about getting your own way ultimately.
My daughter knows what the natural consequences to her actions are and they have to be relevant to the "crime" there is no point in turning off the tv for a toy related crime it has to go hand in hand. As there is consequence for action she has boundaries without me actually ever having to inflict physical pain on her.

I would be interested those who use corporal punishment how they would feel if your child came homw from school and said a teascer, lollypop lady whatever had hit them?

Adath, If my son said that I would ask what he had done to provoke it.

If his misdemeanor was such that it merited a severe form of punishment, then I would tell him he deserved it, and to learn from that experience.

I might also later see that person, and I might ask them to report problems to me, so I could back them up.

But I seriously believe that schools have a problem in not having adequate options for discipline anyway, which is why some schools have such a high suspension rate. And school suspensions play into the hands of some children, who don't want to be there anyway.

I expect my kids to do what they are told Adath, there is no room for negotiation there. I am their parent and that's all there is to it. if ever they are very disobedient ( which is rare) they will get a smack. it doesn't happen very often,but it serves a purpose in a that reasoning and talking etc.could never do

I totally agree that schools have no real good form of discipline but my parents have memories of corporal punishment in school and I am sure some of you do too and it was not always justifed to the misdemeanour.

See I don't understand why you needd total unquestionable obedience from children. Why? Adulthood is not like that? There have been situations in my life as an adult that I have had reason to question or go against someone or something and although I was certainly expected to do as I was told to a pint I was also able to have some kind of freedom of speech to my parents and the ability to question them. by asking for unquestionable obedience is that not saying your way is never wrong? I know as a parent I have been wrong plenty of times and I would hope that my DD would question me if she ever thought i was.
In the workplace as well if your boss had asked something of you that for on reason or another had not been done or you had not done what he TOLD you to do how would you feel if he smacked you?
And do not say that is adults this is children as being children unable to defend themselves through fear or whatever is worse.

I can't believe there are people who believe the police should have the right to use physical violence on members of the public. Is that really the kind of society you want to live in?

I aws smacked at home and at school, and I do feel it did damage to me psychologically. I am a very anxious person and have huge problems with authority. I remember being terrified of being punished, really terrified, feeling sick and shaky etc. I also remember the humiliation, rage and sadness that went along with being hit and having no power to retaliate or protect myself. We all base our parenting choices to some degree on our own experiences, don't we? As such I could never ever raise a hand to a child. However I am stricter than most of my friends and my children are well-behaved enough to attract compliments from strangers when out. They don't flinch when I make a sudden hand movement, though, which I remember doing.

Er Greensleeves. The British tourists (adult males) were drunk, being vile and disrespectful to the locals and causing trouble. That is why the police were called. The police asked them several times to move on, calm down etc, they wouldn't so the policeman clipped one of them round the ear! No blood was drawn or any marks left. It was tap around the ear (but I know you have a problem with the word tap). Anyway, that diffused the situation and the yobs went home. IMO, the policeman did a good job. Wish they could do the same here.

Er speedymama. That's assault. And rightly so.