slapping or no slapping?

[Vindaloo]

I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?

oh wwb .
yes I think should probably parp myself too. I have a great deal of patience, but it is hard to see why I should continue to practice patience in the face of such rudeness.

Rude Sunnyside, no not lazy parenting, my parenting not your parenting There harpsi no doubt that post is perfectly ok with you.

Kitty - I have read (most) of your posts and don't think you've bee rude or aggressive. I think some folks are just trying to wind you up because they disagree with you. That's the great thing about MN though is that people have different ideas and views and it gives us a forum in which to discuss them. I don't expect people to agree with me, just respect my opinion as I respect theirs.

Harpsi can you not see the hypocrisy in your statements? I speak as I am spoken to.

Thankyou so much liquidclocks, beginning to think I was in a very very strange place.

Only heard of mumsnet this week so first logged on on Tuesday. The paper advertised this site as a great way for parents to chat trade ideas, mutually support each other and debate intelligently on issues. Well worth a look. I was really interested in this thread at first, even submitted my own thought in a reasonably quiet way. So why did this thread descend into bickering between several posters which is nothing to do with any of the main topics of this thread. The majority of the 400+ messages are not advice, scenarios, debate etc but are bitchy comments aimed at individuals or defensive rants following a bitchy comment.
Whilst I read these at first - it was akin to passing a car crash and having to look - they now just sadden me.
Is it worth me sticking with mumsnet? Do most controversial threads descend to this?
Or should I return to lonely RL with nobody to discuss those matters I wanted to. At least in my RL a differing viewpoint means having a right good chat before agreeing to disagree - not bitching, sniping or being personal.

I don't think you have been rude or aggressive either Kittywits.

And harpsi, don't be dense, of course I wouldn't have bitten my child. I would have told him 'NO, you must NOT bite, along with a smack, as Kittywits did.

I never said I would have bitten him back.

Why do people switch off their reasoning brains as they read?

I've never put my 4 year old on reins. I find the threat of having to wear his borther's harness is another to remind him that he has to stay on the pavement.

yes, I agree malteser this thread has got a bit personal. Its always a bit of a shame when someone asks for advice and then gets criticised for some detail of their private life that they have given away, or the thread gets diverted.

There are a small number of issues that always get people going though, smacking, stay-at-home mums vs ft working mums, routines vs natural baby care...people do feel very strongly about them.

please do stay, because I am sure that you have a lot of interesting things to say, and fights like this are relatively rare. You soon get to recognise the sensitive topics, and can studiously avoid them. I almost posted my real views on violence a few minutes ago, but then I thought, no, I have too much else to do tonight!

Hope to see you on a less controversial thread

Malteser on MN there are hundreds of different threads about hundreds of different things. Many,many of these are very supportive, if that is what is needed. But there are some there are going to make people hot under the collar. In the end it becomes a debate about HOW things are being debated. It's part of life. Personally I get annoyed at the bullying tactics used by some posters, but hey people are people. It takes all sorts to make up a group. Arguments happen.
I really wouldn't take any notice. Have a look round at the other posts and find something that makes you understand why MN is such a good thing. In time you will get to know which subjects will always cause a stir and can chose to avoid them if you so wish.

Malteser - I highly recommend the Fanny thread, its on today's topics

Kittywits, where have I been rude?
where have I stated falsehoods?
where, tell me, have I called anyone names?
what is hypocritical about asking to be treated with the same politeness that I have shown you?
I am sorry clumsymum I read your post incorrectly. I thought when you said that "you would have done the same" I thought you meant the same as your child. I don't think there is any reason to resort to name calling and abuse over a simple misunderstanding of language. however, the point still remains. if you are trying to teach your child that causing pain to someone else is wrong, then what lesson are you teaching by then inflicting pain on him?

I am interested to note that no-one here has even attempted to address that (pretty central) point.

Malteser - please stay! MN is really great most of the time, it's actually pretty rare for a thread to descend into a virtual fist fight! It's usually a place of support and humour - just look at all the other threads going today as an example.

I'm off now, can't be doing wih this anymore. back to my antenatal comfort zone I go!

I tried to read the whole thread, but ran out of energy half way through.

My view FWIW;
I am pretty strict. My girls have firm boundaries, and know by the tone of my voice that I mean business. They are emotionally articulate beyond their years, and we always talk about our feelings.

Sometimes I shout. More than I'd like. I've never smacked as such, but have been a bit rough, in temper, eg plonking dd down hard on a chair saying 'sit down and put your shoes on'- after asking her repeatedly. I did push my dd down onto her pillow once in the night and shout' go to sleep!' We were having major night time tantrums and I was sleep deprived...I felt awful for ages.

If I ever smack it will be in temper, and not part of my discipline 'strategy'. For that reason, it is wrong. If I do it I will not be able to justify my actions.

I'm glad that my girls don't always do as they're asked first time. I did with my dad, but only because I was so afraid of him. I never want my girls to be frightened of me.

I have thought about this debate so much today.
None of us are perfect. The day I see a perfect parent I will know that earth has been invaded by martians. Every now & then my children help themselves to breakfast on a Saturday morning. This means they eat things like crisps, biscuits, frubes or whatever else they can lay their hands on. I don't think this occasional lapse in dietary control has done them any harm, I'm not 100% sure of that, but I don't think it has. However, I would not advocate any of that scenario as good parenting. This is what I find so difficult to accept about some of the arguments being used on here.
To be absolutely honest, I don't think a very occasional smack will damage a child. I'm not sure about this, but I doubt it. (And just for clarity, by occasional I mean less than 3 times a year.) However, I do not see how it can be advocated as a good, parenting technique.
If you can have disciplined, well behaved children without smacking - then why on earth would you want to use physical violence? No one on here has given me a good argument.
Someone was saying they hit their child for drawing with crayons on the wall. I'm sorry but to me the solution to that is so obvious. One mark on the wall & the crayons go. A brief explanation is given "no drawing on the walls, only on paper" & the crayons only re-appear when the child can be supervised so they won't draw on the wall.
There are lots of parents who smack their children daily & frequently. Somehow I don't think the OP was worrying about occasional smacking (and please forgive me if I have misinterpreted you Vindaloo).
I am all up for discussion and debate. I have changed or modified my opinions on all sorts of parenting issues after debates on Mumsnet. However, I have seen no evidence whatsoever anywhere to show me that smacking is good discipline.

bugsy, i'm right with you.

i also liked harpsi's point about the irony of trying to teach our children about not hurting others..by hitting them!

however, i have caught myself a couple of times shouting' don't shout!'

What a useless thread this has turned out to be.

OP - 'I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?'

Sorry but most of this post is everyone winding each other up and having a slagging off session. Vindaloo was asking for some advice and help FGS. I doubt much of this has been any help to her at all.

As far as the term ABUSE is concerned, i refer you all to my previous post - Thursday 24th Aug 9:25pm.

Hi Bugsy
" If you can have disciplined, well behaved children without smacking - then why on earth would you want to use physical violence? "

Oh how I agree with you, and yours appear to be that sort.
My ds, however, had started to get out of hand. He was beginning to think he was in charge. The other techniques were not working with him. We took swift clear action to put that right. So in order to get to a point where we have a disciplined, well behaved child, we got tough. It seems to have moved him back onto the right track.
And it works FOR US.

Must go now as he wants his bedtime kiss for lights-out.

ofgs!!
can i refer every one to (i think!!)voltaire,a vey clever bugger indeed
"i disagree with what you are saying ,but i will defend to the death,your right to say it"
if we smack or not its our right as parents to do exactly that....parent
its all done now (the subject) lets hope that some of the posts will have helped vindaloo,and others,to affirm or change our parenting choices but make no mistake ladies an gents it must be a parents choice as,as yet, this is not a fascist state

Given a choice no one I know WANTS to smack. If you have a child that doesn't need that, and I have those too, then that's really great. I also have those who would never respond to the methods used on the others.It just goes straight over their heads. I have one in particular who has always been difficult and boy I cannot count the number of times that well meaning people close to us have decided to take him on and solve the problems. I just stand back and wait. Their resolve doesn't last long. My mother was one such person and at the end of a week's holiday with us actually resorted to throwing bags of sweets and cripsps at him when he started.
It is easy to think we have the answer. In reality we have learned to parent our own children within our own very particular family circumstances. Our experiences cannot easily be transfered to others. All my children come out of the same stable but are all very different children needing very different techniques.
Sometimes a smack is one of them.

I wanted to say something before I leave this thread, something for people to think about which is probably pretty obvious.
most of the antismacking people I meet in life and on this thread are anti because of unpleasant/damaging episodes in their own childhoods. so far, so obvious.
I know that is true for a number of people on this thread.
I think that it is important to bear that in mind if and when you see an "antismacking" opinion and you think it is a criticism of your own parenting I think you are getting the wrong of the stick altogether. it is (ime, generally) a reaction to the person's experience of being parented. and (therefore, imo) extremely valid and pertinent.
in other words, an antismacking argument is pretty compelling if it is made by someone who was smacked. because you may well be happy with your own decision to smack, but (self evidently) smacking is damaging to some children and in some families.
and it is painful for someone who was damaged in this way to be told that smacking is just another parenting decision.
that is not to say that those people who are prosmacking should not say what they feel about it, but perhaps it would be compassionate to bear in mind the feelings/experiences of those who take the opposing view, or at least help you to understand why the antismackers get so emotional and passionate.

Very well said Cowmad

HC - exact words elude me, but thank you.

I'm not a smacker. I did smack once with ds1, and I felt so bad about it I have never done it again. Its just not me. I can't even hold a wrist firmly whilst saying NO without feeling bad. I am obviously a huge wimp. They seem to be turning out okay though. I mainly use mental torture and threaten loss of chocolate and parties etc. When it gets really tough I'm big on being sent to bed (for about a nano second) and of making them leave the scene of crime and not giving any attention etc. I don't know, it works for me. I have been hugely upset by seeing mothers screaming at their children how useless they are etc. I find that really upsetting.

yep, well said cowmad. I think that should end it nicely.