Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

I'm sorry - I haven't got much time and this is definitely going to be a me me me post today.

Today has been a nightmare. Me and DS have colds, DD I think has the beginning of an ear infection. We're all tired. But DD refused to nap. Despite not being able to manage happily without at the moment. We're out of routine with visitors just having left and DS misses them and the house is a mess and I can't get back on top of it because every time I tidy something over here, another mess explodes somewhere else.

By the time DH got home, I couldn't look him in the eye because I was trying not to cry, I was eyeballing DD (who, incredibly, wasn't screaming at that particular moment) and DS was screaming in his room. Parenting awards this way, please :(

Positives:

1. I have redeemed myself by using some HTTSKWL skills and forced myself to calm down before going in to sit with DS. Gave him a massive hug and when he'd calmed down we both told each other how we were feeling and why. Then worked out how to make it better. Then we all had ice cream. DS is happy and back on side, he understands why the behaviour wasn't on and he corrected himself when he was about to do something else daft before the bath. While I would much rather the meltdowns (his and mine ) hadn't happened at all, this is a big improvement on 6 months ago.

1. Up until today we'd had a pretty good run - typically it's the day I start feeling relaxed about this parenting business that it all goes haywire!

Again, will have to come back later to write the post I've been wanting to write for the last couple of days, having spent precious MN minutes getting that off my chest!

Crikey. AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAARRRRRRrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

That's better.

Deep breath ready for bedtime!

Have been reading posts on this thread for last couple of weeks and so much has resonated and been helpful.

After horrid evening I am jumping in so hope you don't mind if I join you all. I feel like a woman on the edge. Ds1 is 3yrs 9mths and ds2 is 8 months.

We are currently away staying with family. Ds1 was awful at bed. Took him up stairs after he kicked a cushion he was making a den with. Normally I would acknowledge he was angry and try to get to bottom of it or redirect. But in this situation I tried to hush it up and get him upstairs as was embarrassed and could see he was getting giddy, silly e.g "no I am not going to bed" etc. So after getting him upstairs DH started on stories. After stories I took ds2 in asking ds1 to be a helpful big brother and help make sure he stays asleep - this has helped in the past. The fact they are sharing a room with us in an open plan house where sound travels has been challenging as ds2 is waking 5/6 times a night.

After hearing a thud DH went upstairs. Ds1 had gone to the loo but then started climbing on our bed. Then he started jumping around. We took away tv tomorrow but still running around room. Woke Ds2 up. He then ran out. We carried him back to bed. Repeating "it's time for bed." His response is "I'm not going to bed" while laughing. After 20mins of thinking this carrying him back to bed was hilarious he eventually started crying when DH held him in bed saying calmly "you are not being safe right now and need to calm down" etc. He did and then lay in bed. We carried sleeping ds2 and have not heard a peep since.

I can feel the weight of judgement from Db and Dsil. They have already pretty much said we give ds1 too much freedom and need to follow up/punish. I maybe too sensitive but piecing comments together this is the general impression.

But mainly I am gutted that i am so full of anxiety on this trip. Am so worried about what is going on with ds and guilt around what I am doing wrong. I really can't think objectively about what to do, feel full of doubt and just all round feel lost, tired and so worried. Thanks for reading this far.

AnotherMonkey - glad to hear it has been a good run. That is such a great positive.

Yes I'll join! I tend to shout as DD's in her own little bubble most of the time. A lot of the time it's "DD. DD! DD!! " Tapping her, clapping loudly in front of her face, nothing works. ! She's nearly 7, DS is nearly 3, most of the time it's like having 2 toddlers. I'll try extremely hard to stop shouting, not sure how.

Hello to the new joiners!

No time.to post really but after yet another snappy bedtime last night which I should have risen above I am at a real low point and wondering if I'll ever be able to move forwards...

Welcome Dango and Bathsheba.

Bathsheba, that sounds frustrating :( Has this always been an issue or is she pointedly ignoring?

Dango the judgement issue is a big one for me. I hate feeling judged, I think it ties into the perfectionist stuff we touched on a couple of pages back. I'm trying really hard to accept that I will be judged as a parent; aiming to find a level of confidence in my own decisions which means that I can handle that. The problem is, with so little black and white*, and two children who are not known for their willingness to comply when together, I find this side of things really, really tough sometimes (and have spent more than one occasion at my judgy inlaws feeling like I'm going to burst into big sobs at any moment).

*Here's one thing I can't quite get straight in my own head at the moment. I feel strongly about each of the following statements:

a) I want to encourage strong-mindedness in my children. I love that they have the courage to fight for their own needs/wants/opinions and I don't want to stamp this out. It is my biggest parenting wish, which I find both exhilarating and overwhelming in equal measure, to encourage this fight and independence within an environment which promotes physical and emotional compassion (for themselves and others). I want them to be able to choose their own path, to think critically and to make their own decisions about what is safe and what is right for them, not necessarily for their friends or the grown-up in the room.

b) I want them to be able to master basic skills which will allow them to fit into social situations and to understand the impact their behaviour has on others. Age-appropriate is fine! Sometimes though, it feels like it takes so much 'stamping out' to achieve this that it is impossible to achieve this within the context of a).

Bringing up a child who has self-confidence and independence but understands how to balance this with respect for others is one thing. Bringing up a child who is pandered to and believes that their needs/opinions are paramount to everyone around is quite another. When my DCs are so strong-willed and really do need firm parenting at times, is it possible to achieve a)? Do I just concentrate on keeping secure boundaries for now and hope I can relax these gradually, as their maturity grows? Obviously with safety this has to be the case. But what about DD's love of drawing on anything except paper? Or her determination to do and touch absolutely everything herself, regardless of ensuing mess or damage? Or DS's inability to sit still at mealtimes (this applies to both, but DD obvs that much younger)? Or the screaming and scratching in the car? None of these things are acceptable to me, but seriously some days it feels like 'stamping out' is all I do.

Phew, that's long.

Dreaming you will get there. I know you will.

Dreaming, this is another one of those times I wish we knew each other in RL. Sending you cake and positive thoughts. And your posts are great :)

I hate the judging thing too, and something I realised yesterday after my cooking disaster (I exploded a pyrex dish - with food in - inside the oven, not my finest moment) is that I am not very good at forgiving myself when I make a mistake. I thought that I was, but I'm not, and the worst part is when I disappoint somebody. I was laughing at myself a little bit, because I had actually done the same thing in the past, and that had lead to a horrible screaming argument with XP which culminated in him threatening to kill me if I ever left (nice). So I was feeling nice and calm and in control and sure that DH wouldn't be mad but he would laugh about it/be sympathetic since it was an accident. But when he got home he was grumpy about something else and I asked for a hug and he said he didn't think I deserved a hug - which may have been his sense of humour totally missing the fact I was panicking slightly about it. So then I tried to say I was feeling nervous because of XYZ and DS tried to join in the cuddle and caught him right in the balls, so then he was annoyed because of that and I ended up blurting out the thing about XP and then DH (and myself) was mad that I said that in front of DS.

Anyway, after this I was feeling so shaky and wanting to cry and horrible that I had to go for a walk, I even bought cigarettes though I don't smoke very often, and the lighter I'd brought from home didn't work (so I didn't smoke one anyway!) I was trying to rationalise it as I was walking around, it WASN'T a huge deal, nobody got hurt, nothing expensive broke, the mess wasn't impossible, I had already cleaned most of it. It wasn't a big deal and I don't know why I was so upset about it.

Later I realised that most of the time I am walking around with this low level panic and anxiety that there are things I need to do (this is true) and I'm going to mess it all up and I've already left it late. I have so much trouble letting anybody know that I have to let them down that I leave it until the last possible minute even when it would be much easier for them to sort out if I told them earlier. It's stupid!

This doesn't really have a lot to do with parenting, but it feeds into the same thing. Whenever I make a mistake it reinforces my belief that I'm actually rubbish at everything, and instead of accepting the mistake I seem to have this belief that nobody else makes such mistakes and clearly I'm just useless. I have repeatedly thought that DS and DH would be better off without me and the only thing that stops me from leaving (or worse) is that I know although I'm shit and mess up (what feels like) a lot of the time, the fact of me leaving would be much more traumatic for DS. In fact I'm hanging onto that, so nobody tell me any different.

Sorry, this got a bit dark. I wasn't intending it to :(

Hi dango and bathsheba (((waving)))

Getting ignored and enduring the happy crazies are two flash points for me.

We aren't ignored as much now as we were used to. DS is much, much more responsive depending on what else is going on and how tired he is. But oh my goodness I have experienced extreme frustration with the brick wall child

dango that scenario you describe when their energy tips into overdrive frenzy... I still don't know how best to approach it. If you have any tips please share! Anyone!

Judgement... urgh. I know its roots and shadow go wider than just parenting for me. The heart of it for me is tied up with self worth, self belief, and shame in other core areas of my life.

I know it will be an ongoing practice to accept and defuse that awful feeling of being judged. I find parenting such a chaotic, uncontrollable ride that it is a big raw spot ripe for the salt of judgement.

If DS had been easier and I could be the gloaty judgey pants instead it might feel different but those deeper issues would still be there.

another I read your post saying yes yes yes out loud! The 'a' and the 'b' are both important to me too. And just yes. I have no more words. My brain has shorted out, probably from contemplating the horrors of parental judgement

The judging thing is so hard as well because there are so many ways to skin a cat and most people have arrived at their own decision in quite an emotional way so it's hard not to judge others doing it differently sometimes. I find it very difficult to stay with people unless I know that their parenting aligns very closely to mine because I am just worried all the time that they think I'm being too soft or too hard or too reactionary. It's hard enough trying to agree on how to do stuff with DH!

dreaming and bertie and it will get better, you WILL feel better. It just never feels like it when you're right in it (((hugs)))

I notice when I'm right down there the last thing I want to do but the thing I most need to do is self care. Wish there was a less corny phrase for it

Bertie you talking about things feeding into each other popped out at me. I find it hard to know where my feelings come from quite often. Things can be so muddled up together sometimes.

I had a very bleak day a few days ago and saw DS's behaviour as the cause, but with some distance there were other things going on. One was that I just needed some time out and had very little energy left. Still no solution to getting time out on the trot! But I got it later, which really helped.

Also I realised today that I had been to counselling the day before and explored issues around betrayal, vulnerability, disempowerment, etc and that there were aspects of DS's behaviour that triggered/echoed what I'd been talking about with the counsellor. My dark mood and over-reaction to some of the things DS was doing makes lots more sense now when I look at it sandwiched up to that session. Things really do feed into each other and it can be hard to tell where they separate off.

Sorry my last post turned into a big rambling that doesn't help your situation bertie A few months ago I asked DP if he'd consider ending it all (in the worst way) with me and DS because I couldn't stand being here feeling how I was feeling, but also couldn't stand leaving them Not a rational solution but it was the best I could come up with even though I knew it was crap, because all the usual coping strategies hadn't been working and had turned into problems themselves (trying to 'fix' DS, be 'perfect', etc). It was a whirlwind of triggered old traumas, beliefs, and feelings all spilling out faster than I could handle them and very tangled together. If you are in anywhere near as bad a place as I was in, please please talk to someone you trust who won't judge and who will give unconditional support if you can, if you haven't already. You have given us so much wisdom and support here, I wish we knew you in real life so we could help. Sorry to overstep any boundaries - please ignore any and all of this as required of course - it's just that a proper reread of your post set off warning bells and sorry this has all come out very garbled and in a rush, just many hugs and hoping you are okay xx

I'm fine. I'm not suicidal. It's a thought which has vaguely crossed my mind in the past but I have never ever been even close to actually doing anything like that so please don't worry about me. I probably do need to see a GP about mental health, that is true, and scary (and my past experience hasn't been great.) You know when picking up the phone and dealing with things in a constructive way is so much harder than not dealing with anything at all and slogging through the mud. It's backwards.

I did find when your kids push your buttons good at revealing those bits where your "other issues" are affecting what you think are discipline/communication parenting issues.

((Bertie)) I so get that situation with your DH and that shaky feeling afterwards - for me it usually comes from the white noise frustration, which comes from that one simple need not being met (sometimes you just need that hug and reassurance and someone to say, who cares - it's just a dish :) ) and the unnecessary blow-out just when you most needed a bit of TLC.

The irony is that when we judge ourselves so harshly, I think it sometimes encourages others to do the same. This page has reminded me to be a bit kinder to myself. Maybe I should focus a bit more on being a role model for those strong qualities I want to nurture in my DCs.

dishes that was a really brave post.

and for all you strong women on this thread at the moment.

Oh, and funnily enough I was thinking longingly just the other day about an old habit I used to have, pre-children, of sitting in my garden with my feet up, having just the one ciggie as the sun went down. DH's judgy pants give him a wedgie when it comes to cigarettes, but I totally would have met you round the corner with my BBQ matches, Bertie

Ha! DH is trying to quit at the moment and has switched to an e-cig which I am totally refusing to touch because I am not addicted to nicotine and I just like the ritual of smoking. The e-cig does absolutely nothing for me and I'm not interested in the idea of getting hooked on it. But it's nice occasionally to have one cigarette. So I tend to keep a packet around for those occasions. DH doesn't mind at all so I will probably continue in this vein forever!

920 messages. I know it's a bit daft, and that we can continue on another thread, but I actually feel a bit wobbly about this one closing, like it's the end of an era or something

I'm worried about losing you all!

Noo! We'll all be on the new thread :)

Hello everyone! I'm still here. Thanks for thinking of me, Dreaming - I still have 5 weeks to go before DC3 is here. I've been busier than usual this last week or two, hence me going quiet, and it's just taken me an age to try and read and digest all the latest posts.

Welcome to all the newcomers.

Bertie I know exactly how you feel regarding the sometimes just needing a cuddle to make everything right again. I love my DH dearly and he has the power with just a sentence and a cuddle to make me feel like I'm invincible. But then he also has the power to crush me with one neglectful turn of his shoulder or unsympathetic comment and I feel like my world comes tumbling down around me. He's probably not even aware of it but his mood affects my own mood and outlook so massively.

I hope that you've had a better day today.

Anothermonkey your summary of the battle you have between how you want your children to be and making it happen is something I struggle with mentally every day! I feel that with every "stop that", "calm down", "get down", "I think you're being rude" comment I feel that I'm quashing and suppressing their own, natural personality. I worry that they'll become some introverted former shadow of themselves because of my constant badgering. I just don't know where the balance is. Like you, I hope that as they get older, the boundaries become clearer and they need less reminding without it changing them or their personalities too much. It's so hard, isn't it :(

Another reason for not posting on here this last week or two is I haven't been doing so great. :( I've shouted more times than I care to remember at the boys, been sarcastic, unsympathetic, just generally a shit mummy. Twice in the last 4 days I've had DS1 (4yr10m) in tears telling me "I thought you were a nice mummy now, please don't shout". Christ, just typing that makes me sound like I was some mental, abusive parent once before. Maybe that's how I appear in a 4yo's eyes :(

But the thing is, I know the cause. Or at least I think I do. I'm SO tired at the moment. I spend all day longing for my bed and wishing it was bedtime. And then when it is, I can't get comfortable because of my huge bump and lie there for half the night unable to sleep. I bet I got less than 4 hours sleep last night. And then I'm expected to be supermum the following day. DH is doing what he can, but I'm such a control freak that I can't leave certain things to him because if I did, he would just feed crisps, biscuits and fish fingers to my boys 7 days a week.

I've NEVER been great when tired - even pre-children. I remember when DH and I were just dating and lived by ourselves. I would literally boot him out of the house some evenings because I was so tired and grumpy, or he'd see the signs and just tactfully leave before I got too grumpy and snappy with him. I'm so much more of a morning person, but just lately, I'm not even that anymore because I'm not getting the 8 hours I SO need.

There is so much truth in the "self-care" thing, like you said Dishes. But finding the time is impossible. I feel guilty for even getting in the shower and leaving DH to look after the boys, nevermind having a few hours or god forbid, longer to myself.

Anyway, an early night for me, I think. DH is out at the footie getting his "self-care" time, so I guess I should do what I think will help me the most. Sleep.

Night all x

wow- a busy day in here.

bertie and dishes those were very brave posts from you two. I can see how those thoughts can be so tangled into day to day parenting- which is almost the easiest thing to feel opened up about and judged on as so often explosions are in the public arena- it's hard to separate them. And above all its the desire to not mess them up and hopefully nurture strong, independent, confident children who grown into adults like that without any of your baggage (that goes for me anyway, I'm not talking about/pointing gingers at either of you ). I also think when you feel positive and empowered things are so much easier but when it's all such an uphill struggle you just. ..don't get off the ground before something negative happens (about every minute around here with sibling snatching/ kicking/ hitting) and then that's so hard to keep dealing with it all in the way you like and the negative spiral continues.

The thing I am.currently beating myself up about is I have all 3 dc home all the time. A full day with no plans with friends (ie meeting another adult I enjoy spending time with) or my mum or dad coming up (they tend to come once a week each) often sends me over the edge at least once. So, erm, I clearly find it hard to manage all 3 dc all day by myself while remaining a calm and positive parent Not great hey. And winter is coming My dad was here today. He always goes home exhausted afterwards but it pulled me.back from.the brink and we had a good day. Just trying to stay calm at bedtime but tonight I seem to have managed it *disclaimer, I've given up on dd who had a 15 min nap so will probably just bring her back down with me. DT1 being particularly difficult though. But thank goodness. 1 'good' bedtime. I was in tears over how awful bedtime had been last night- not that it had been as bad as it used to be BT that without shouting I do the menacing whisper, snap and generally end the day on a bad note and bad feelings so easily

just off for a quick chat with dd...

mandbaby hello!! . I have so much sympathy with the tiredness, I hope you're fast asleep right now.

After thinking about the judgement thing all day, it again seemed pretty timely when this dropped into my inbox this evening:

aha

Hello mandbaby glad to see you! Another 5 weeks.... I was so desperate to not be pregnant with the dts by the end. It was exhausting. I say let them eat fish fingers cake and chips for about the next 3 months and make it a bit easier. you're welcome i fed mine fish and chips from the end of the road, justified as healthy as no trans fats in the oil and they name the trawler they caught the fish that day on and McDonald's in the space of the last 2 weeks

bertie very glad things aren't that bad for you. My worry overcame my discretion so a bit of over disclosure there