Terrible Twos!!! Feel like calling in Supper Nanny????!!

[Reece]

Ds (2.8) has been difficult since DS2 came along 16 months ago but in the last month his tantrums,tears and stubborness have esculated big time.

Typical morning before 9am - Jumps out cot (refuses to sleep in bed)refuses to use potty, refuses to take off pull-up and PJ's. When downstairs asks for weetabix, serve him with warm milk as asked and then refuses to eat it saying that he wants Special K instead. I say no because he had asked for Weetabix. He then proceeds to throw entire bowl of Weetabix on the floor and rant about Special K. I don't give in and try hard to ignore his tantrum. Still won't use potty, demands TV, I refuse until he uses potty and helps to get dressed and washed etc. He continues to rant and rave for 20 + mins. At this stage we are running late for playschool and DS2 is not washed and dressed etc etc.

I expect there are many of you out there that think this is just intermediate stuff but I just need some guidance on how to deal with it.. I feel myself raging inside but know that will make things worse. He is pushing and pushing me and I know I will burst at some stage.

Last night he refused to stay in his room, kept jumping out of the cot for about 2 hours screaming. He was running all over the house upstairs going through my room etc. I tried the quietly placing him back in bed again and again method (don't know what it's called) but he kept waking DS2. DH and I ended up giving up and going downstairs to leave him to it. i feel like locking him in his room.

How long does the terrible 2's last for? Do they have terrible 3's as well??? Parenting is extremely tiring and frustrating at the moment. I am not enjoying him and can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Help!!

That all sounds promising sleepysooz.
Hope your night is going ok. Good luck with the stairgate on the room. I STILL haven't plucked up courage to move DS1 into his bed. Well actually, to be fair to myself I have, but DH said he is not up to it yet since his operation earlier this week. TBH I just want to get going on it and deal with the shite as it hits the fan!

Would be interested in how you get on with the gate. I was thinking of trying the bed without it and if it got bad then putting a gate on as well. I think it wil be bad as he hates any kind of change.

Thats great about the nursery nurse settling your DS in at playschool. What is it about boys? My DS is also really clingy at times and can be really shy.

His Montessori had a Halloween party on Friday and he was the only child to not put his costume on I have been told its normal for some kids to be like this. Such a shame but he still had fun which is the important thing.

His behaviour over the last 2 days has been up and down. He seems to play up most when we return from taking him somewhere fun (park, soft play centre,etc). Maybe its tiredness.

I am still struggling with him refusing to brush teeth and get washed etc. Think I had better start a reward chart for that as it is driving me crazy.

DS2 is great The only difficulty I am having with him at the moment is getting him ito the car seat. He goes stiff and screams every time. Very tiring.

Thanks FOTM, we have a CD already for the twins to go to sleep, but it doesn't stop them getting up in the night, HV said it was ok to put stairgate up at door, but I think DS would go balistic at that, we just don't seem strong enough to go that extra mile and let them scream it out till they know they have to stay in their beds and sleep all night.

DH says he does'nt mind getting up in the night to them, we only take them back to their room then get straight back to bed ourselves, but it happens so often! they don't actually wake fully when they walk into our room cause they usually fall straight back to sleep once taken back into room.

HV said she thinks my sleep deprivation is the cause of depression, so she isn't going to be very pleased with me if I don't do as she says, [tremble]

Oh look at the time, I had better get to bed and relish an early night!

Oops, forgot to get school uniform ready, and cheque sorted for dinners etc, better get onto it!

Incidently, my DS won't get dressed up for halloween either, we bought him a lovely pirate suit from asda, so nothing too frightening, but no he just won't wear it! DD has a witches outfit that she hasn't had off her back in a week! she looks so sweet on her broomstick!

Hi sleepysooz.
Good to know there ae a few more kiddies out there refusing to wear their Halloween costumes. I wonder how our lo's will react on Tuesday night to all the treat or treaters?!

I can see where you are coming from regarding leaving your lo's to cry themselves to sleep during the night. It is really hard and sometimes impossible really. I do think that you may have to try and take the HV's advice though and see how it goes, especially if she thinks it is contributing to your down days. I know sleep deprivation contributes to my down days in a big way.

It would be great though if they did become more able to get themselves back off to sleep by themselves. Think how much better YOU will feel.

DS2 woke up again last night at around midnight. I went in, gave him his soother and left. He continued to stand up and cry. Never woke DS1. After about 5 mins I returned and picked him up, gave him a cuddle and then put him back down again saying "lay down now, bak to sleep". I was prepared to have to do this for at least an hour but to my amazement he settled back to sleep. Maybe he is getting the message after all.

We all got a good nights sleep last night o things are going well here. Hope it improves for you all to.

FHOTM - checked out the Bunny Clock. Looks pretty good doesn't it. Am going to keep it up my sleeve for now should I need to get one once DS is in his own bed.

Interested to now how you get on with it though. Please keep us posted.

HELP ME
my eldest ds (3 1/2) literally tries to kill his younger brother (18 months)when he is in a bad mood. the little one is generally quite good tempered and always wants to play with him but my oldest ds can have really bad moodswings. I try to distract them, separate them etc, but there are times (ie when cooking dinner) that I can't be hands on w them. I can feel that my eldest is really sad yet his behavior is so bad I can't help getting awfully cross w him, which other than making him completely hysterical (screaming to high heavens and going harder for his brother) also makes him more sad. It's a terrible heartbreakening dilemma because I don't want him to hit his brother but I don't know how to put it to him in a way so that he understands. I have slapped him (once(awful!) but normally I tell him to go to his room till he has calmed down. this will sometimes make him wet himself in frustration!worst time is dinner time. I wish there was some sort of reading or advice re this. Its really horrific. Yesterday the little one nearly lost his two front teeth.
whats the bunny clock?

oh found the bunnyclock page, cheers, its a brilliant idea, looking forward to reading how you ds reacts to it. good luck

Hi Mirchops.
How long have you been sending your DS to his room once he has attacked his brother? Just a thought but maybe a change of tactic is needed to get him to understand that you will not tolerate aggression of any sort.

I have DS1 (nearly 3) and DS2 (20 mths). DS1 has many many times attacked DS2 normally around the same time as yours (tea time) when you are busy. They know this and I think their aggression is just another way of them trying to get your attention. If you shout back etc. they are getting the attention that they want (even though its negative, they don't care).

Have you tried the naughty step or what I use is a Bold Cushion. DS has to sit on the cushion in the hallway for 2-3 minutes until I return and get an apology from him. It has been working thank goodness. Takes time but worth it.

hth

I know how hard it is not to shout etc. when its happening. It's the worse. Especially when the younger ones are getting hurt poor things

Good idea, I think I need to explain to him that his room functions as a sort of bold cushion or naughty step, right now I just plain shunt him into his room and bang the door (yeah i know its wrong, but I get so cross!) you're right I can feel that the more attention he gets, the better he (DS1)behaves towards his brother. But like you say it also works the other way, he will go for negative attention too. he has terrible tantrums. shouts and cries to high heavens I'm afraid the whole street must think I'm abusing him! I think one of the problems could also be that DH has a terrible habbit of shouting at him and I can see how terrifying it is for DS1 when this happens. we have discussed this and although DH admits its wrong he still loses his head from time to time, do you have this problem anyone? I mean I lose my head too, but with him perhaps because he is a big man its just so much more intimidating for the lil uns'. and I think shouting at DS1 is what makes him thinks its ok to shout at his brother - only he goes that one step further and pushes him and bites him. oh. I don't know, we have good days but some days I just want to lock myself into a room and cry. baaah...

FOTM - I agree re: shouting, but its sooooo hard isn't it.

Good tip re bunny clock, twins wouldn't take a scrap of notice though, they are so impatient, when they want to get up they get up, no matter what we do to get a lie-in, I have just started a reward chart, (HV said they were old enough to understand the concept now they are 3yo) they havent reacted in a positive way yet, but I keep trying. Nursery Nurse coming on Thursday to talk about settling twins into playschool, she is going to do it for me (cause they just won't go) how fantastic is that, and I'm back to the doctors on Friday to change AD's.

Still not much sleep, twins started having night terrors, literally screaming with so much fear, its so upsetting, will mention it to nurse on thursday, poor things, so much has changed in their lives in 8 months, potty trained, in own beds, starting playschool, no more pushchair, no daytime sleep, etc. etc...........

Hello, am new to MN after finding your conversation while looking for advice on handling toddlers. Hope you don't mind me butting into conversation. I have dd aged 2.3 and am hoping refusal to do what I say gets no worse than it is now. Although, admitedly, she hasn't reached the tantrum heights that some of you have described below! Anyway, it's cheered me up reading some of your discussions. Main thing is that I gave up work (am working part time from home) eight months ago when she was a cute and contained 18mnth old, in order to fulfill my parenting dreams. Am now starting to loose motivation! Don't know if it's because of staying in the house, or if being a mum is getting more draining!! Have to agree with (I think) Reece who said it's not having time to self, which is the problem.

Must not get adicted to MN as I should be working

hi, FOTM thanks for advice on shouting youre right, shouting just makes things worse and you feel terrible afterwards. as for going back to work / settling kids in daycare, I had the choice of putting my ds2 into nursery when he was just 1yo or wait till he was 2 (only place i could get for him, as I wanted him to be in same nursery as his brother) and so i chose to settle him in at 1, feeling really horrible and selfish about it. But he is taking so well to it, he loves his new little friends and traipses off happily every morning when i drop him off. (as oppose to ds2 who throws a fit every morn... )
It's really nice to have some time off and I miss them so much when they're away (but I think its good to have a chance to miss them!) So I say go for it- I found that spending all day at home meant I literally did nothing but cleaning, and I'm supposed to be working from home, but there's always some washing or vacuuming that needs doing, ie- I never get anything done argh! good luck with your interview and although you don't feel ready now you may find that once you have settled into your new routine you may have been more ready than you thought!

Well, tried twins at playshcool last week, DS lasted 1 whole hour, Yippeeeee! on my way to freedom! He did scream alot, but the playleader said he had 'potential' hee hee, as in they could defuse his crying for the odd 30 seconds here and there! Wow!

Sorry my sarcasm doesn't suit but, hey ho, they are going next week. I sat in a local hall having coffee, waiting for the dreaded phone call, I knew it wasn't worth walking the 20 minute trek home.

Not very happy tonite, some 'BERK' (polite version) has just crashed down the side of our parked car taking the wing mirror completely off, and didn't even stop, 'PRIZE >>>>>>>'

Probably looking at the pretty fireworks, big wuss!

Oh No sleepysooz thats a nuisance re the car.

Haven't posted in a while. Been really busy. Sister was over with her 2 daughters (14 and 10yrs). They were briliant with DS's.

DS1 was 3 on Thursday so we have had lots of celebrations/little parties etc. He now has lots of lovely new books, puzzles, games, toys etc. to keep us all occupied. It was mid-term break last week so he was home with me all week. It's amazing though how quickly the days went. His behaviour has been pretty good on the whole. Probably only been on the bold cushion three times all week!

Both boys also sleeping much better so DH and I have been getting full nights of sleep for about a week now .
The only complaint I have is that since DSis was arrived he started having wee accidents . Maybe it was just tiredness and excitement or something. We took him to a lovely country house for lunch on Friday and he sat in the buggy in the hall way and did a massive long wee. It went all the way through the buggy and kept dripping all over the floor. He realyy didn't seem too bothered about it either..

Anyway , he was back on the straight and narrow today so fingers crossed things will settle down again.

How are you getting on Mirchops?

Good luck on Weds FHOTM.

Sleepysooz - Getting any more sleep? When can you change your nickname?

Thanks Reece, yes nickname getting on my nerves aswell, perhaps when the twins are 18yo

But sleeping is not toooooo bad, I think because I am 45 with 3yo twins is the problem, the doctor did say before I had more IVF treatment that this would be the case as his wife had a child when she was 40 and she was constantly tired!

I am also a person that needs 9-10 hours sleep a night! thats not an option, I'm lucky if I get 6 hours!

Hey ho, sleep arh! lovely! a dream maybe!

The twins seemed to have turned a corner from the terrible two's (am I tempting fate)

Sorry your still having accidents, (sorry I mean mini-reece) must be sooo frustrating for you.

We had a lovely 3rd birthday aswell, good job I had a toy sort out before the day!

There's nothing wrong with your nickname sleepysooz. Just wondered if you were getting any rest

I am exactly the same as you! I need quite a lot of sleep and if I don't get it then I struggle for the whole day.

Yes Ds's accidents are frustrating. It's been 6 months now since we started potty training. It was obviously too early for him when we started but too late to realise that now. Anyhow, as far as I am concerned he is trained, knows what to do etc. and I am much more relaxed about it. The only times he seems to have a slip up - Tiredness, when overexcited, or just to annoy me.

He was on the bold cushion today for throwing toys in a rage. He was tired but would not sleep.

When I disciplined him he ran into his bedroom, jumped up onto his big bed and did a wee {angry}.

Overall though, his behaviour has been improving

Well I have had a bad day with DS1 today

I don't know what has triggered off his bad behaviour but he kept repeatedly pushing and hitting his brother, threw toys again, refused to eat any of his tea and to top it all wee'd all over a new giant jigsaw puzzle that he had stuffed inside his new birthday indoor pop-up tent!

He has been on the bold cushion many times!!!! When DH came home from work DS hit him and DH placed him immediately on the bold cushion. He came off the cushion 3 times. It was an exhausting day and I was close to tears by the end of it.

Fingers crossed tomorrow will be a better day.

How are you all doing?

hi there sorry haven't checked in for a while. I've just realised that my ds1 (3.5) is going thru a period where testostorone kicks in heavily and I knew this would happen eventually from when he was a baby but now that we're in the midst of it i never thought that this could be one of the reasons for the tantrums. (i like it when there's a 'natural'explanation along with all the guess work iykwim) Anyway been trying to give him lots of possitive attention and suggested that DH took ds1 out to the cinema over the weekend while i spent time w ds2 and it really has helped. he also slept w his dad last night because of night terrors and this morning he was a right little angel to all of us, I think one of the keys to this is daddy time. Other than that I myself have been really frustrated and 'moonsick' basically i just feel that i have no career, no life, no social life etc now that i have my hands full w kids. Then i cooked dinner and burned it and that got me bawling like a baby.(I felt I wans't a good enough housewife, mum, etc blahdiblah) Oh i hate getting into these rants about whatever happened to my rather accomplished life b4 babies? I certanly would never blame them, but it is hard sometimes isn't it? anyway hope youre all well!