OK - all you non smackers - what would you do instead then?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

Why? I don't quite understand what you mean?

Temperament has to be taken into account.

Domt quite understand what you mean aviatrix... JanH's post indicates that she sympathises with Lisalisa. Unless I misread?

The fact that she still throw a strop now at 21 isnt cause and effect, there are girls and lads who still give their parents grief at that age.

Lisalisa you seem level and fair to me, Im sure you dont condone what you did (or you wouldnt be discussing it), It isnt always the way forward but we dont get instructions we just do the best we can, we all mean well and all wish we could bring our children up in an ideal way, to become lovely people. But along the way there will be instances where we need to do things a bit differently, not necessarily the way others would do it.

You will know the best way forward, and youve had lots of good advice, some constructive criticism too hope you make the best choice for you and yours

I have 3 other children, aviatrix, and lisalisa has 4 others - this situation has never arisen with my other children nor, I infer, with lisalisa's - so yes, I think it's innate.

btw lisalisa I thought of this thread today when dd1 had a massive top volume screamy strop at a friend's house and all the way home lasting well over an hour... I managed to stay much more patient than usual because I remembered I was on here preaching to you so I had better practice what I preach or stop being such a sanctimonious cow
it is hard, I don't doubt it for a minute. my dh is out of the house from 7am till 8 or 9 pm every day and working lots of weekends too. it is exhausting and hard to be the perfect mother, or even good enough.

I was also a rotten cow to my ds yesterday - smacking is not the only way we can hurt our children

Good luck to all of us struggling with this today

Hi,
didn't read the whole thread. I'm absolutely opposed to smacking children under any circumstances so you and I are automatically on opposite sides of the fence and I won't get into that further.

In the particular situation you raised , I would have had dd and the guest kids pour fruit juice into the ice cube containers to suck when they're frozen. Since they do it themselves and choose the juice, it's a fun activity and distracts dd. Then I would have set up some game or played something with them all to take dd's mind off the ice lolly till the ice cubes were ready.

Think if you made a mistake, it was too much explanation. Just keep it short and speak nicely but in a very firm decisive voice and that's the end of it.

Sorry haven't read all thread.

I use shouting and screaming. LL, yours sounds a lot better.

The reason I don't smack is that I don't trust myself not to really hurt ds. that's it. I would find actually seeing a child being smacked a bit shocking tbh but would fully support any parent who did what you did.

Not illegal because I bet your very controlled and logical response left no permanent mark.

haven't read all posts so apologies if repeating.

firstly, I do sympathise. I generally don't smack as I do think there are other ways, but I do believe that a parent reserves the right t discipline their child as they see fit, as long as it doesn't cause permanent injury to the child, either physical or emotional (there are other ways of hurting a child than smacking, just because you don't smack doesn't mean you're not potentially harming a child). anyway I digress...

I think it's easy as an outsider to sit and say "oh here's what you're doing wrong..", but in reality none of us were there so can't relly know how it was, but what I would say is that from your op and subsequent posts it does seem like you jumped from one solution to another to another when things didn't work. personally I find that sticking with one solution for that tantrum works better, i.e. would explain, distract, and if that didn't work would put into time-out. once I'd gone to the ignoring phase I wouldn't then go back and try and reason as I'd already been there without success.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, pick your diversion methods so they follow a sequence. if she won't listen to reason, try and distract, if she won't be distracted, then ignore, and ignore until the tantrum has run its course, yes go and ask if she's ready to behave but if she's still wining just walk away again. once you've gone into ignore mode you have to stick to that as she'll quickly learn that if she continues to try while you're ignoring then you'll divert to something else, she has to learn that ignoring means ignoring, no talk, no conversation no reasoning - she had time for that earlier.

SSSandy do you know how long it takes to freeze an ice cube, flippin ages especially when your trying to distract someone while it freezes.

Could always sing one million green bottles hangin on the wall

Have only read the original post here, but my thoughts are firstly - if you are happy with the way you dealt with it why do you wish to gain opinions?

Secondly, if smacking is the approach your dd has always known then i'd say that could be an explanation for the tantrum until you smacked as she doesn't know how to reason any other way.

Thirdly, if i'm right in assuming you want to change the way you deal with her behaviour, it isn't as simple as asking what others do because you and your dd need to do a lot of work to 'retrain' behaviour management.

My dd knows what no means, she knows if she has a tantrum - it doesn't get results whether positive or negative so its not worth doing. So a firm no followed by distraction to something more exciting than a lolly would work for my dd in the same situation, but obviously wouldn't have worked for your dd.

If you do want to stop the smacking you will need to talk to your dd, explain that you aren't going to do that anymore, and perhaps instill some sort of rewarding of good behaviour (e.g. time going by where she doesn't have a tantrum = reward).

Just read your second post where you say you have tried all those different methods. I'd say consistency is the vital component you may be missing.

lisalisa I hope you are feeling ok, it is really hard when you are at home and your partner works long hours, I hope you can take something positive from this thread, I was thinking abiut you today whilst I was trying to do umpteen things and dd was after a lot of attnetion, I found myself getting totally frustrated in the end I sat her on one knee baby on the other an made up asilly ryme but it would have been easy to lose my twemper but I managed to find another strayegy, after counting to ten . As for resopect dd says things sometimes that are well checky but when I look at the tv progs she are her friends watch it is really only her trying to copy these catchphrase perhaps it is teh same for your dd, if you get totally fed up with her think of all the nice/sweet thiongs she has done to remind yourself she can and is fab

We've got a bit of a tantrummy ds2 at the moment - he's got a right old temper on him and can go on for up to an hour if he's on form. But we're not smackers, so we use a combination of:

Naughty stair or room - I have to hold the handle on the other side or he'd come out, but he's in there for 2 minutes (as he's 2) and then has to say sorry.

No shouting, but just very firm, low voice, something like "stop that now!" and then ignore. And keep ignoring, combined with distracting - usually with food/telly .

But it's really hard. I've had 37 years to learn to keep my emotions under control (and I still can't get the hang of it) but ds2 has only had 2, so no wonder he goes off on one...

Lisa - I symapthise with you but have no answers. I used to smack my ds2 - tantrums exactly of the sort you describe. Never smacked ds1 or dd, never needed to. Having parented them all pretty much the same I don't know why one responds in one way and one in another.

I think the many trigger point for my ds2 was over-stimulation - maybe the same for your dd - lots of children around, lots of activity and it all gets too much. If they are over-stimulated, talking, cuddling, distraction techniques just makes things worse. Ignoring or putting in a quiet place to calm down is the best bet - but when you've got other kids too it's hard to handle.

sorry to play devil's advocate LL, but what is your dd's teacher supposed to do if dd has a tantrum at school?

janh, don't know what this is about, but i do know that the argument that other children don't behave in a certain way and therefore behaviour must all be innate is absolutely wrong.

all children regardless of whether they are born to the same parents or not have different parents and environments as you are not the same people with one child as with another. even in the case of twins children are never treated exactly identically as we project all sorts of things onto them based around gender, birth order etc. we are also as parents in different places in our lives when we have different children, subject to different stresses and different dynamics in our relationships with our partners.

the development of the personality is a blend of genetic and environmental factors and given that environment is the only thing we can control it takes precedent.

sorry for long post, but so many people seem to delude themselves into thinking that because their kids are different that must mean that it's all genetics, and it is just not true at all.

janh, don't know what this is about, but i do know that the argument that other children don't behave in a certain way and therefore behaviour must all be innate is absolutely wrong.

all children regardless of whether they are born to the same parents or not have different parents and environments as you are not the same people with one child as with another. even in the case of twins children are never treated exactly identically as we project all sorts of things onto them based around gender, birth order etc. we are also as parents in different places in our lives when we have different children, subject to different stresses and different dynamics in our relationships with our partners.

the development of the personality is a blend of genetic and environmental factors and given that environment is the only thing we can control it takes precedent.

sorry for long post, but so many people seem to delude themselves into thinking that because their kids are different that must mean that it's all genetics, and it is just not true at all.

we start projecting stuff onto our children long before they are born....and we don't even know we are doing it.

my DS rivals these tantrums I have to say; I feel I have been there.

I don't 'fry' you for smacking as this is a very very hard situation to deal with. Once she is like this I can see it's only a 'shock' that stops her. In an ideal world it's avoiding these situations altogether that's the alternative to smacking, to answer your post. But kids are not logical so do not always act reasonably.

I think the ice lolly incident could have been dealt with differently actually to ease her anger - if there aren't enough to go round, no-one has one; NO child is going to be happy not to have one when other kids are. I think if you are straight down the line, clear and fair it does stop the opportunity for these situations to 'bed in'. I also would have ignored her rude manner about her cossie in order to bring down the emotional temperature; she HAD come up, she WAS complying with the bath. I would have helped her with it and saved the situation escalating. She simply wasn't able at that moment to do polite, I think ignoring on the odd occasion is sensible.

However, I realise you had ALOT on that day and I am NOT criticising just saying that there is always scope to avoid these situations 99% of the time - not always.

And as for the smack, I am sure the same effect would have been gained by a loud shout at her, if you had been calm up to that point. I feel as a mum that this is less harmful than a physical punishment, as we're only talking occasionally here. I don't beleive in smacking and have (with sometimes alot of hard effort) not smacked my DS. But having said that I don't think it will long term hurt your DD either, if it's reserved for when you are in extremis and she is being impossible.

I don't really agree SparkleMagic. There are some children and some situations where no amount of diversions or exemplary parenting techniques is going to stop them throwing a tantrum. DD1 appears to need to have a tantrum in some circumstances. My guess is that she gets completely over-stimulated and needs to let off steam. The only thing that may stave off the tantrum is somehow getting her horizontal and asleep before she kicks off!