OK - all you non smackers - what would you do instead then?

[lisalisa]

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I whip mine, deprive them of food and lock them in the cupboard under the stairs.

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I didn't mean you shouldn't have them I meant if they cause tantrums because they are aren't available then i would cross them off my list altogether

Hmm, I probably need that book, too, sophable. I am struggling with DS2 (not listening, generally).

I do think a cuddle sometimes helps sort a tantrum.

Smacking is a difficult subject for me, because my parents did it. They always did it in a calm way, it never got out of control, we were never injured. But they continued to do it, even once when I was fifteen. My mother is dead, and I still have not really forgiven her for that one.

if shes at school she is probably knackered

My ds's tantrums were never sorted out with a cuddle. His tantrums were & are roaring full on frenzies. A physical manifestation of all the inner anger & frustration. Once the tantrum has worn itself to completion, then he would be desperate for a cuddle, but not during.
On very rare occasions in public or at someone elses house I would attempt to physically restrain him from either damaging himself or something around him & I could barely hold him, he was so 'possessed' for want of a better word.
So, it really does depend on the child & your definition of a tantrum!!!

dd1 has terrible tantrums and is a very sensitive, emotional, some would say difficult child

but I find there is always a moment during the tantrum where you can get through to them

interesting bugsy, perhaps there is some type of need to rid self of demons iykwim - and if child isn't harming anyone else then just allow them to burn themselves out?

True about every tantrum being different,and every parent/carers coping ability is different too.
My dd and ds are completely opposite in the tantrum stakes. ds needs us to be nice and cuddle him wheras dd generally needs to be left alone.

sorry (babe on lap) meant to say IMO the moment when lisalisas dd shouted at her to take her cossie off was the moment where lisalisa could have got through to her

as she didnt help, the tantrum escalated

I would have read the 'get my cossie off!' demand as 'HELP ME!'

We also do counting to 5 Tortoiseshell - and I have lost count of the number of times we've got to 5 and had to implement the sanction. So a lot does depend on how tractable your children are!

If she is like DS who can work himself into a real state then she may not know how to stop crying once she is so worked up.
I have often found that getting down to his level teling him I need him to stop or there will be xyz consequence and then telling him I am counting to 10 (you need more than 5 when they are like that) and he HAS to STOP crying leads him to try to stop at least. Then sitting and cuddling can help calm him and then you can sort out the bahaviour.
Admittedly sometimes we get to the time out - And the threat (again carried out) of putting pyjamas on and putting to bed but usually if he has made some effort to stop crying we can sort it out before it escalates that far

lisalisa I am stunned

In fact you are right - posters who post designed to hurt are not worth bothering with.

Re-read my first post, it was kind supportive, understanding and an attempt at being helpful.

Actually don't bother - why am I wasting my time, I am actually hurt by that - which is sad seeing as help was what I tried to give.

Haven't read all the threadds so apologies of this has been said before. If you can get three months in prison for smacking another adult, why on earth should smacking be "quite correct" for a child? There are other ways - and other ways DO work. I have two fairly tantrum free kids who know that to hurt someone else, is really, really not a good idea!

Oh yes, and I had specifically logged back in to see if you had had anything really useful you could use - and if there was anything else I could suggest that may help

WTF do we bother

Enid - thanks - that's a really useful insight. My dd can do that in the middle of a wailing fit, hadn't thought of it as a little girl cry for help.

you have to be receptive enough to spot it - also be in a patient enough mood not always possible

also it helps if you are the kind of person who is big enough to back down during an argument

I am not perfect in fact my kids take the piss on a regular basis but there you go

dd2 in mid tantrum will face the wall and scream NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when I attempt to cuddle her.

But if I walk away I see her peeking out of the corner of her eye, so I faff about folding vests or something, ignoring her but she is aware I am still in the room and care (even though sometimes I don't give a hoot!).

I usually find that the next time I approach she is a bit better and will have a cuddle. Then we go and get a biscuit or something, which may be wrong and be seen as a reward but it works for me.

non smacking is about responding to your child's needs even if it means faffing about for a bit - smacking is always an easy short term option lisalisa another suggestion would be to ask her what she wants toy wise adn give her a number points she needs to get this.then give points for good behaviour and if she looks like tantrumming tell her she has until youget to ten to calm down before youtake x ammount of points off her ( can take awhile and is best to start of with something requireing a small number of points)

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LisaLisa a dopy of my opening post - since you have a problem with your scroll bar...

"TBH, I wouldn't have disscussed it with her in the first place! I would have said sorry darling there arn't enough you will have to have an ice cube or I can freeze a banana - and then walked away. No furthe discussion - if they really push it I sometimes fall back on "this conversation is over" followed by more concerted having fun with the others!

A bit of treatment like this IME teaches most children that a tantrum won't work.

It is not a short job though once the behaviour is set IYSWIM.

I understand what you mean, tantrums are hard to deal with - but then tha is the point of tantrums - to see how far can adults be pushed!

Sorry that is not really helpful - I have never had to deal with a long time screamer - and I have no idea if this is luck or my wonderful parenting techniques

Hope you find an answer though - it sounds like you really have your hands full with it! "

see - nice and fluffy

Oh, here's my second post....another pretty fluffy one..

"Do you think that perhaps you are offering her too many choices?

I knwo that sounds kind of weird but sometimes with younger children, if they are given lots of choices - ie 3 choices of what to have, two choices of how to behave, three choices of how the pounishment for behviour will go etc etc then they can just feel they have lost control and it is too much to deal with and the only way they can feel in control again is to control the person responsible for the choices - ie you!

I know these days it is all, let the child have choice, free speech etc. But I really believe that often, they respond better too very limited choices so that they can clearly see what they are dealing with.

Sometimes IMO they need to know that it is just a no and there is no extended discussion, emapathy or anything, it is just plain no"

No I don't et upset that you didn't "come over to my camp" I got upset taht people were trying to help and getting nothing but excuses about why it was no good to change.

LisaLisa

This is going to be short because I need to get on with some work, but I do empathise. I have a 5yo DD who still has the occasional but massive tantrum. Other posters have suggested that you should/could have done something in the early stages to 'head it off'. My experience is that sometimes that just won't work: DD1 is going to have a tantrum and the combined powers of Tania Bryson/Mary Poppins and a scabre-wielding Genghis Khan would not stop her. And like your DD she can keep it up for over an hour. What have I done that works? Short, sharp, smack - doesn't work for us, but if it reliably stopped a tantrum after 10 minutes instead of an hour and 30 minutes, I'd do it. So fry me! Removing DD1/timeout. This doesn't work either as she just comes out again and I just cannot bring myself to lock her in. Ignore, ignore, ignore and then actively ignore some more. That is basically the only thing that works for us. I will sometimes read a story to DD2 as loudly as is necessary to drown out DD1's cries. If there is just the two of us, I've been known to put on DH's ear defenders and sing loudly (very effective!) or lock myself in the kitchen/bathroom. Also very effective. There is a point where I can help her recover herself. It's hard to work out what that point is and I don't want to reward or perpetuate the tantrum. But as screams turn to tears, a strategic hug and a diversionary activity will bring the whole thing to a close.

My gut feel is that DD1 gets to the point where she 'needs' to have a tantrum and once it starts she loses control so absolutely that nothing I do will make the slightest bit of difference and she couldn't stop, even if she wanted to. But as she comes out of that phase, she needs some help to close down the episode and a hug, a diversion or even in your case, a smack, can do that.

I had massive tantrums until I was 10 (I actually remember the last couple!). So only another 5 years to go. Oh and I'm surprisingly calm now!

I agree with Enid -- once it had got to that stage I would have taken her swimming costume off (interpreting the fact that she wanted me to take it off as a step in the right direction, even if she wasn't expressing it the right way) and worried about the lack of respect later. And I agree with SecurMummy that you may be trying to explain too much and offer too many choices. There's a limit to what a six-year-old can take in.

Personally I'd have given her initial empathy and offered an alternative, but once the flinging-on-floor started would have ignored her completely and probably left the room. Depending on whether this was a pattern of behaviour I might have identified some longer-term consequences later on.

If adopting your time-out approach I'd have told DD1 (or DH) that I was sorry about their homework/need to rest but that this was important, so could they please watch the baby for a little while, then put DD2 in her room (etc.) and held the door shut for as long as it took.

What happened was that you did the initial empathy/alternatives, she carried on tantruming, you tried ignoring but didn't keep it up and kept trying to reason with her (she wins), you tried time out but only kept it up for ten minutes (she wins), and finally lost it enough to smack her (she wins again). There doesn't sound to have been any real consistency.

It sounds as though you are frazzled and low on the reserves of emotional energy you need to follow through with the non-smacking approaches. Does your DH work nights or shifts?

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