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Original poster

OK - all you non smackers - what would you do instead then?

301 replies

lisalisa · 13/07/2006 11:20

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SSSandy · 16/07/2006 23:08

Sometimes it's best to just click out of threads before they get to you too much, Greensleaves, but it's easier said than done. I can never resist going back for one more peek . ARGGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!

You sound like a really nice person to me. When it comes to hearing people defend some aspect of parenting that we feel strongly against, it's a no-win solution - whether it be hitting, EBF or parental surveillance; the more you read the other side's texts, the more it infuriates you. Goes for both sides of course.

It isn't worth ruining your evening about though.

ScummyMummy · 17/07/2006 01:05

Greensleeves- do you need a break from mumsnet, maybe? You seem to be constantly getting v upset by threads atm. Sometimes the online world can feel like a difficult place and worth escaping from, ime. Hope you are ok, anyway.

Greensleeves · 17/07/2006 01:47

I can't think of any other threads which have really upset me lately - certainly not any that have reduced me to tears. Am I really "constantly" very upset? It's news to me . I think I need to absent myself from this thread and this topic, as I've said - but can't see why I would need a break from MN generally?

mousiemousie · 17/07/2006 07:09

Greensleeves I personally find other people smacking their children quite upsetting so I know where you are coming from.

My dd is very well behaved and always has been. I think its about having the resources to deal with behaviour in other ways, and yes this can be difficult - and a smack is much easier.

Maybe I have been lucky with my child's behaviour, or maybe positive attention, sensitivity and a non-smack policy really work. Who can say.

shoppingsecret · 17/07/2006 07:50

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edam · 17/07/2006 08:16

Greensleeves, I see you've had problems with this thread, but if you are still lurking, would be interested to know how old your kids are. Just the restaurant thing - when we take ds, sometimes he's angelic but sometimes we need to take him out to run around a bit. Which I tend to think is fair enough - he's not three until tomorrow and I do think during those toddler years it's probably unfair of parents to expect children to sit still for long periods.

Hoping he's coming out of it though, he's been great the last few times. Maybe some toddlers are just less active or more interested in sitting down quietly for long periods - maybe they get into the whole experience and just find it more interesting than others?

edam · 17/07/2006 08:18

It was my 88yo godmother, who is a stickler for good manners, who made me feel it was OK to take him out to run around a bit, btw - I mean, I would have done it anyway, but she thought it was fair enough for a toddler to need a break from sitting quietly. Which interested me because she is, as I said, such a stickler for good manners. We were always on our VERY best behaviour when we visited her as children.

FrannyandZooey · 17/07/2006 08:23

Greeny, people who are not used to your style of blowing up and then cooling off, are just concerned about you and wondering if MN is a relaxing place for you at the moment. People are just being NICE, ok?

aviatrix · 17/07/2006 09:18

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Greensleeves · 17/07/2006 09:29

edam - ds1 will be 4 in September and ds2 will be 2 in August. They are full of beans and of course like to potter about and giggle with each other, when it's allowed. We tend either to take them to places where we can sit in a garden and let them play, or take stuff with us (crayons, or a couple of books to look at, or one of those magnet kits/fuzzy felt etc). Or we play "I Spy", that will keep ds1 sitting still for ages. If we take them somewhere smart/in the evening, though we make it very clear that they are being allowed to participate in "grown-up time" and they are expected to behave properly, not shout, not run about. They respond very well to the idea that they are being allowed into grown-up space because they are such beautifully behaved children. We don't tend to have any problems with them in that context.

ds1 gets over-excited and anxious in very frenetic/noisy situations, he's highly strung and needs to be encouraged to calm down so that he doesn't get himself into trouble. We now have calming strategies for him to use (a little "calming-down" song, counting etc) when he feels himself getting over-agitated. If he does overstep the mark I remove him from the situation for a little while and then talk to him about what happened, then we have a cuddle and he apologises. Ds2 is obviously younger but he catches on pretty quickly and all the same sorts of methods seem to be working with him too.

I can't imagine that smacking either of my children would have any effect other than the total shattering of trust and affection and the destruction of the relationship we've built. Perhaps it's just their temperaments. I don't know.

And I WAS going to stay off this thread, but wanted to answer edam's question

Franny, you make me sound like one of those hot geyser things that belches boiling mud everywhere

blueshoes · 17/07/2006 09:40

aww, Greeny, they sound lovely.

Thanks, aviatrix

bloss · 17/07/2006 10:21

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edam · 17/07/2006 10:30

Thanks Greensleeves. We take crayons and comics (and raisins in case the food takes ages) but I like the tip about telling children they are being allowed into grown-up space.

My mother took us to restaurants from when we were tiny precisely because she wanted us to learn how to behave. And the last two times ds has been so good - both trips to the same (Italian) restaurant where the waiters remembered him and made a fuss of him. We will definitely go back!

flutterbee · 17/07/2006 10:45

My Mum still comments today about how when all her children were young total strangers would comment on how beautifully behaved we all were. She could happily take all 7 of her children to a resaurant or other grown up place and be confident that she would not feel embarressed by our behaviour.

We are all now pretty much adults eldest 35 youngest 14 we all have excellent relationships with our parents and with each other and all of us were smacked. It has had no negative effect on us what so ever.

I do not feel that how you choose to discapline your children has any effect on their manners or behaviour, I think it is much more the choice of when you choose to discapline that shapes childrens behaviour.

As I have said previously on this thread smacking is very rarely the only reason a child feels resentment to their parents, their is usually many other reasons why these feelings are felt but smacking is the easy one to point to.

I would also like to repeat this as I feel it is a very important point --

Sunday 6.55pm

As I have said before people just need to have confidence in their parenting methods. I will smack ds if I feel he needs it and could not give a toss what any other person thinks as it is my decision to make.

Parents who choose not to smack do so because it is their own child and their choice and what they feel is best. Some parents refuse to disapline at all and again that is their choice.

This thread could go on forever and ever, we will all think that we are right and the others are wrong and some people will even feel that they are superior because of their choice but the bottom line is your not, you are just another parent muddling through trying to do what you think is right and in 20 years time their will be women on the internet talking about how shocked they are at how their Mums bought them up.

Original poster
lisalisa · 17/07/2006 11:01

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Blu · 17/07/2006 11:08

Blimey, LL - a big 'phew' on your behalf.

Your DD2 is a right one, isn't she?
My guess is that she is v intelligent, and is playing all sorts of complex games to make sure she gets what she sees as her fair share of attentoin. The whole 'I'm not getting in the bath' thingwas SUCH a challenge for attention and boundary-pushing, wasn't it? I wonder whether just walking off and ignoring her would have worked at that ppoint? i.e the message being 'you co-operate and we do things nicely and you get loads of spoitive attention' - becaseu by all your nice persuading her she would feel fresher, she was getting plenty of your attention whislt NOT co-operating?

She sounds complex and sophisticated in her methods (not to mention determination!!) and you have to operate on the hoof without the benfit of hidsight. it sounds as if you had achieved a lot. despite the Sunday chaos!

the sudden onset of good behaviour once the * really hit the fan and the paed friend arrived is interesting - what do you think that was about?

SlightlyFamiliarPeachyClair · 17/07/2006 11:17

Have you spoken to your school nurse? before ds was DX'd as As (not suggesting your dd is), violent scenarios were quite common in this household (well still are but not so much )and the school nurse recommended a behavioural specialist to do one on one parenting support whilst new 'tricks's were trillaed, the idea was he could be a sounding board / resource for us.

We didn't follow up as we did meet him and he hadn't the foggiest about AS, but maybe it would work for your family? It IS easier to solve these things far better from outside, and that's no offence to you (or me) it just is

Original poster
lisalisa · 17/07/2006 11:33

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FrannyandZooey · 17/07/2006 11:45

I think blueshoes' post should be quote of the week

"It is not a race to achieve good behaviour. It is about nurturing self-motivated resilient adults who internalise our values."

Not exciting or snappy enough though, is it? Just bloody good advice.

zippitippitoes · 17/07/2006 11:54

I think you are right about ignoring..it sounds like you had a horrible trauma of a weekend

and ignoring does i think respect her intelligence and it shows that you expect her to learn from your behaviour towards her that she is one of the family not the centre of the family.

I agree with peachy that an outside view might help..it's finding the right person though

Do you have any concerns about her behaviour in any other way? And is she ok at school?

Blu · 17/07/2006 11:54

I think the ignoring is the clue, too, LL. She is really lapping up the reasoning and persuading, isn't she? and still not getting in the bath!

Indeed, F&Z - report it as quote of the week!

bloss · 17/07/2006 12:24

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SlightlyFamiliarPeachyClair · 17/07/2006 12:37

I agree with the ignore thing, I have told ds2 (I have 3, respect to you!) that I'll be quite happy to take him over the school wearing PJ bottoms if he doesn't change his clothes, I then leave him and invariably he ahs changed so far (navy trousers and navy PJ's so could sneak past teacher....) would take dirty if I had to, as well.

it's not easy its it? When one is kicking up, one in the bath, one up to no good etc etc etc.... I am not exactly anti smack (the one controlled smack thing) but i don't think it's ideal either. You seem to be doing a good job of looking for alternatives and brining up your kids with respect, fiar play to you.

Helenemjay · 17/07/2006 15:07

Lisalisa - im glad your ds is ok! - i agree that ignoring bad behavior/tantrums is very good and works a treat here! LeahE i have read most of the posts! and im aware that alot of you mums manage to control bad behavior with other means - which is great, but what about a childs personality? if you have kids that are capable of a spectacular tantrum but you are not one to get too wound up by this and so you find it easier to respond calmly and talk it through! - but my ds1 is capable of horrific, soul destroying, mind bending 'episodes' that truly leave onlookers jawdropped!! what then?

colette · 18/07/2006 18:39

lisalisa - I am in tears at your experiences on Sunday. Hope things are better- I am not absolutely sure that a rare smack stops a situation escalating although I feel so aweful after it makes me feel unsure.
I hope you get a break soon - 2 is too much for me some of the time.