OK - all you non smackers - what would you do instead then?

[lisalisa]

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you're going to get jumped on (by people who have never had to deal with anything approaching this), but it worked, quickly, so I would be happy about that tbh, and not bother with other's opinions.

If someone gives you a "better" way- invite them to deal with your dd.

Poor you, it sounds like a bad situation.

My DS1 is nearly-5, and sometimes gets a bit worked up, but I find quiet talking or a bit of time out fixes it.

It sounds like a smack stopped this particular blow-up, but I wonder if the habit of smacking keeps you from learning other parenting methods that might let you stop the tantrum earlier, or avoid it altogether.

she is pushing the boundaries and challenging you.

you normally smack her so she will taunt you to do so..you smack and then the circle is squared.

She has learned that this is the system.

I don't smack, lisalisa, BUT I've never had to deal with anything like the above. I've never been tested like you are.
I'd like to hear from parents who are and still manage not to smack. Sounds like my dd is an angel by comparison.
She does have a little rant sometimes but goes on the stairs and stops pretty much then as she can't bear to be excluded from the family group. She's 4.

My nearly 4yo is pretty difficult, he has serious tantrums and constant low-grade whingeing, arguing and defiance.

He's improved vastly since I calmed down and started using a reasonable, measured tone with him, listening to any real points he has to make, being firm but fair and not losing my temper with him. I tell him I can't hear whingeing or screaming, they make my ears go deaf. But he knows if he approaches me reasonably I will listen to him and we can work out a compromise. I've never smacked and I never will.

TBH, I wouldn't have disscussed it with her in the first place! I would have said sorry darling there arn't enough you will have to have an ice cube or I can freeze a banana - and then walked away. No furthe discussion - if they really push it I sometimes fall back on "this conversation is over" followed by more concerted having fun with the others!

A bit of treatment like this IME teaches most children that a tantrum won't work.

It is not a short job though once the behaviour is set IYSWIM.

I understand what you mean, tantrums are hard to deal with - but then tha is the point of tantrums - to see how far can adults be pushed!

Sorry that is not really helpful - I have never had to deal with a long time screamer - and I have no idea if this is luck or my wonderful parenting techniques

Hope you find an answer though - it sounds like you really have your hands full with it!

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if you have smacked her before then what she is doing is pushing you harder and harder until you smack her.
which she did.
and which you did.
Smacking only "worked" because she is acting out learned behaviour.
I am not saying it is easy (clearly it isn't) but what you have taught her is that if she pushes hard enough she will get this kind of attention. So I imagine before too long she will do it again. then you will smack her again, but this time a bit harder because she says oh that didn't hurt.
And what she has learned - what you have TAUGHT her - is that the way to solve something is if the bigger and stronger person uses violence and hurts the smaller person. Not the kind of lesson I would want to teach my children.
In your situation, I would have just put her to bed and let her get control of herself. She is old enough to do that. She needs to learn - imho - that she can control her own feelings without the need to be slapped into calming down.

exactly. totally sympathise, but this is a circular thing. she knows that in the end she will get a smack so she goes for it until she does.

what about right at the beginning of the tantrum, having empathised and having told her how it makes you feel when she does this (also worth talking to her about that when she is not actually doing it) you say that you'll count to five and then do something that will really hurt in a longer term way, such as taking away a prized toy for 24 hours. It won't work first time but if you follow through i'm sure it will within quite a short space of time.

do you praise her a lot when she isn't being difficult, and notice when she is reasonable and well behaved, giving treats without announcing them in advance if she has been good company one afternoon for example? that helps to ime.

also if smacking is so effective, why wait for 2 hours, why not do it straightaway? i imagine that that would stop working very quickly though. part of it is that she has worn herself out and smacking is the cue to stop maybe.

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You've explained this so brilliantly, made me see exactly how this situation arose, I can't blame you for what you did. You've made your point very clearly.
But on the other hand I wonder whether your DD2 knows that smacking is something you do only when absolutely desperate. IE, it shows you are right at the end of your tether, close to losing it. So, in a way, by provoking you to that point, she gets some satisfaction she's won! and that's why she snaps out of the bad behaviour afterwards. That would worry me, I think.

trying to grab more attention as your house/garden was full of kiddies
so wanted to attention seek and make more noise as poss

I would of thrown her in her room and told her to stay there until she can behave

DD2 was like this, lisalisa, and smacking was the only thing that worked with her too - anything else just escalated whatever the situation was, a smack would stop it in its tracks - it seemed to be the equivalent of slapping the face of an adult having hysterics. Being tired or just generally stressed was the main trigger with her. You have my complete sympathy.

(At 21 she can still behave like this when stressed or tired - not lying on floor bucking and banging, luckily (!), it's just verbal now, and I can deal with it by blanking her, which of course isn't an option with a small tantrumming child when there are other children around and other demands on you. DD2's incidents decreased as she got older, I'm sure yours will too.)

it takes a lot of effort but loads and loads of positive reinforcement of behaviours you do approve of does work. it takes longer but it lets the child start to believe that they are good and well behaved and sensitive and gentle etc.

i would highly recommend the book (i know i've done it before but i'm going to keep doing it as it really turned things round for me and ds) 'how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk'. teaches really good communication methods and techniques that work very fast.

tbh lisalisa, rading your post again it sounds like you lost control with her.
just because something "works" doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
I expect if I was upset and someone twice my size (say, a seventeen stone bloke) hit me "quite hard" I would stop crying too. but that wouldn't make it the right thing to do.

Lisalisa, I would find it easier to give some advice or comment on what happened if I thought that you actually wanted to hear my opinion.

I think you have made your mind up on this, however are feeling defensive about your decision to smack and decided to come on here and pick a fight with people who don't share your parenting style. You have had some helpful and considerate posts on here - whether you choose to listen is up to you.

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You know, you are asking for other methods, but it seems that in your heart you really believe you did the right thing.

If you do, then be comfortable with your own parenting and don't bother with what anyone else thinks.

Have you watched Little Angels or House of Tiny Tearaways. If you really do want to use a different method with her I would watch either of these programmes. And if really want to make any of the methods you have mentioned work, you have to be 100% committed and consistent. Keep trying and eventually it will sink in.

I sympathise too lisalisa, I have a middle child who is being v challenging and haven't yet found a satisfactory way of dealing with situations like the one you describe, althougfh I don't smack. Incidentally active convos looks like a top 10 of all time most controversial threads at moment...

I think its very easy to judge others parenting skills. If you are lucky enough not to have a child that is really challenging then good for you. Some children will push much more than others and until you have lived with one then I dont think you really know what its like. Every child is different, everyones coping levels are different and everyones family situations, help level etc are different.

I wouldnt be too quick to be so hard on yourself lisalisa. You sound like you are doing the best you can. I dont agree or disagree with smacking. I tend not to smack (have done on very rare occasions and on those occasions it has worked). I think over smacking certainly does not work.

I dont really have any wise words of what you can do except never give in to her once a tantrum has started but it sounds like you dont anyway.

Just pray she grows out of it quick ... before the teenage hormones kick in

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the thing is lisalisa, just because this "works" now - do you really think it will carry on working as she gets bigger and older? what about when she's eight or nine or ten will you still smack her then? harder? what do you think her reaction will be? what about when she smacks you back?