My son treats me like shit because he doesn't like his sister

[JustFabulous]

No way round this, is there? .

{desperate}

Ok so no playing out if he can't be polite. Doesn't matter really what the sanction is as long as it matters to him (and doesn't massively inconvenience you)

They have cottoned on that you are insecure about them feeling loved and they know that questioning that gets a rise from you. I second what someone above said about just looking confused and dismissing the very idea that you wouldn't love them and then not giving in, and not stopping whatever you are doing.

I think it is good for kids to be a bit bored but after 3 hours in the park they were still like this so don't think it is as simple as that.

The landing is too small for a bookcase and there is more than 3 book cases full of books anyway.

I know more what I need to do and I know I have been a far too emotional mum worrying about what they will think if their childhood when they are older instead of dealing with today.

Also, you may want them to share their toys but mostly, it's not realistic.

I know that a lot of families do have to share but sometimes it helps to buy each child something that they enjoy. They pick it, they play with it and they can't bitch about it later.

My brother preferred the TV games and sometimes he asked me to play with him. I enjoyed my karate obsession

But you've already figured it out I reckon.

Your kids won't hate you for discipline. :)

Mine get their xbox's taken away if they don't comply with my warning - my eldest is ok but the younger 2 constantly swearing on xbox drives me insane....so they get a warning then the plugs get taken away.

World war 3 then kicks off but hey ho!

As i said earlier i admit im a shouter but what i try to do now is speak in a calm voice if i have to speak otherwise i try to ignore.....when i dont rise to 10 yr old being stroppy its almost like he doesnt know what to do next! I walk away and leave him to it, and i can guarantee within minutes he'll be as nice as pie trying to make conversation...but it still doesnt get him what he was sulking about in the first place!
Kids!!!!

I am going to get them in an hour or so. I am looking forward to seeing them though a few more hours would have been nice!

I know I need to do a lot of work on myself which will help them behave better.

If the books are causing problems maybe talk about that together and ask them if they have any ideas about a good way to share.

Could they have a summer "library" where they agree to choose 2/3 books a week from each others' room. Each child could have a little book where they write down who has which book and when its due back.

I think DC get very anxious about sharing precious things, if they know they will get the books back and when, they might be more inclined to share.

Love zzzzz idea's for things to do!

DS1 made his own library last week and was that the others wouldn't go but I will definitely suggest it again.

Yesterday I asked them why they fought so much and DS1 said something and then said "there is no point telling us we have to live together for years, we already know that." He has said he was happier without his siblings (this child was over the moon when dd was born, called for "BABY! BABY!" in the mornings instead of "MUMMY!" from his cot and was a proud big brother when ds2 was born).

I actually think it is my fault they are like this and some people are not together enough to have children. Some people = me.

Justfabulous - I think you're being really, really hard on yourself.

Of course you are together enough to have children. You're here, on a message board, seeking help because you want to improve things for your family. That in itself is enough.

Your own childhood sounds shit, and that's hard to get away from in low moments - I know that.

But keep going. Keep challenging yourself.

have you thought of getting some counselling? Help your self-esteem and sort out the shit patterns in your head?

Oh JustFab don't be daft, we all have days when we think we are rubbish parents. I know I did when DC were younger, especially during the long holidays.

Accept that they will squabble and fall out, but don't dwell on it. ALL dc do that, it's part of childhood.

Regarding the library, that's fantastic that DS made one last week. I would tell the other DC that DS spent time setting it up and what a kind thing it was for him to do. Say this infront of DS so he knows how proud you are of him. Suggest he does it again and that you all visit it.

the stupidest thing about me, but the biggest problem, is that I don't know what is normal for kids to behave like as I wasn't a normal child

I really want to see my children now. I want to cuddle them and enjoy them.

You can break through this, I really believe that. My dearest friend in the world had a terrible, terrible, terrible childhood. He had no childhood, just a string of shocking abuse. He had a breakdown, he's had counselling - tons of it. He now has four children and he's amazing with them.

Don't give up on yourself...

That is exactly it. I have stayed for them because I know what it is to not have a mum who loved you enough to stick around. I feel I have given up because I don't think I can turn things around.

But you really can. You cannot lose that faith. You've said it yourself, you know what it feels like to not have someone stick around.

You've not given up. You're there physically, which is amazing (because I really understand it is fucking hard when you feel like this and probably just want to grab up your keys and leave) and now you have to bring your emotions back into the space...if that makes sense.

I don't know you, I don't even know what it's like to parent three kids of that age, and I'm sure that there is lots of 'strategy' stuff you can do to improve things for you all.

But it sounds to me like you need some personal help to raise your own confidence and to realise that you're not your mother, and you're doing really, really well - even being here, asking for help.

just my mum left when I was three. I know exactly where you are coming from. A mum leaving you is so awfully difficult to get your head round. I kept everything bottled up until my own DD was three. The enormity of it then hit me so hard, I really did suffer, I would looked at my lovely three year old and know I would die for her then think I must have been an awful three yo for my mum to have left.

I also worried so much that I wasn't a good mum, that I might end up leaving mine too as it might be genetic Another thing is because I felt my mum obviously didn't love me, then I found it very hard to believe my own DC loved me. If they said something like "I don't like you" I would be so so upset.

My DH was amazing, he had had a very normal childhood and he really boosted my confidence and kept telling me [and he still does] what a great mum I am. If I hadn't had him I would have gone for counselling. You need to realise your mum leaving was not your fault, that your DC really do love you and that you are doing a great job. But you NEED someone to tell you this as I know you don't believe it.

Just to reassure you that my older brother and I fought and argued 95% of the time growing up! When I say fought, I mean we physically kicked, punched, slapped, pinched, pulled hair, Chinese burns and it was to hurt not to play! Now we are older we get on really well and I ask him for advice and we can both laugh at ourselves.

We were pretty awful to our mum as well, we argued over everything with her and never helped with cleaning or chores and would rather argue for an hour than do a 5 minute job.

How we all survived I don't know. I also don't know what the neighbours must have thought with the constant screaming and shouting!

I think if it was me, I'd get the kids out of the house so I could have a proper chat with DH to write down some house rules.

I think once you can impose the rules (be consistent), the kids may be angry with you, but you might find they join forces to whinge about you and they'll find something in common?!

I think you sound like a good mum and I hope you know that there are loads of people reading this who feel proud of you for all the efforts you are making with your kids. It is a hard job being a mother but you don't have to be perfect all the time!

can 11 yr old not arrange to meet his friends.. going to park with younger sibs every day sounds bit boring tbh.. are there no camps activities they can do?

I don't really have any good advice or anything (I have a 19 month old DD but do also have 9 year old DSD and 11 year old DSS so I know about sibling arguments/accusations of favouritism etc) but I read your posts and I really wanted to reply. I had a shit childhood too and I was - am - so determined that my child wouldn't have that. And so I beat myself up over EVERYTHING. Yesterday I wept because she wouldn't eat the dinner I made for her. Even though she's teething. And it was really hot. And a million other reasons why actually, it's not really my fault. I get convinced - like the PP - that being a crap mum is genetic. But it's not though, is it? It's absolutely not.

What shines through is that you really do care about them being happy and cared for. If you didn't you'd just leave them to it and not give a toss.

11 year old boys (in my experience) are like balls of hormones. 9 year old girls - or the one in my house - are similarly hormone filled. It's an incendiary mix. Add in summer holidays, heat, boredom, etc etc and they're going to argue. And they'll take it out on you because they know that they can - I mean, they know that even if they yell at you you will still love them (but they are smart wee buggers so they will say things like 'why don't you like me?'!)

Not much of use here, just...you sound like a good mum.

Just fabulous, you sound fabulous to me. You are caring, articulate and honest - lovely!
What is standing out for me, amateur psychologist, is that you want your children to have the perfect childhood. Course you do. But maybe you don't truly believe that consequences and discipline have its place. They do.
There was a woman on radio 4 this morning saying she was going to get a job because her young son thought she did nothing. The other panellist said it was a mistake to make decisions on what a angry child says. You're the boss. You know what is important; he doesnt.
Also, in many cases saying I hate you can be a sign that the child feels safe around you.
Hope the return goes well. Keep expectations low but hopes high.

You sound like a perfectly fine mum - you love your children,and you are here trying to work out how to deal with all this! (Thinking you are doing a bad job at parenting at least some of the time is normal,IME,and looking at your children and wondering what you did wrong when your friends' children are angels is as well!)

With the books,my approach would be to get them all out,sort out with them which are family books and which are someone's prized possession,then say family books anyone can read,own books you ask to borrow.I shared a room with my DSis growing up,a room that had my grandmother's wardrobe in (she lived with us and was in and out getting stuff regularly), so privacy in your room is a foreign concept to me - I think you have to share all sorts of stuff in families and sometimes access to your room is one of them.

'He has said he was happier without his siblings'

Sorry- but my answer would be TOUGH. You are not making him work down a salt mine, or making him sleep in the coal bunker- you are giving him NORMAL family life where there is always someone who annoys you and always someone who makes you laugh.
The opposite of a TERRIBLE childhood is not a 'perfect' childhood- it is a normal family life.

that a stranger thinks I am giving my kids a boring day.

My mum didn't leave me as such. She left me on a doorstep when her boyfriend didn't want a child and then flitted in and out of my life if I was getting too settled within a care situation. Because she didn't go through with aborting me she thinks I shoud be greatful and said everything she did, was for me .

I argued with dh on the way to have my emergency section as I said save baby and he was saying he would save me. I would give my life in a second for any of my children (currently ignoring ds1 and 2 arguing) and yet my mnother chose her latest boyfriend over me every single time.

DD is going to a friends tomorrow so DS2 has asked to go to the lego shop. If DS1 wants to go I will take them but am not promising to buy them anything. DS2 often changes his mind about going to the shop with me if I say I am not buying anything .

Thursday - we might be visiting a mumsnetter .

Friday - shoe shopping but then we will go to the park and maybe out for lunch.

DS1 wants me to take him swimming now. I really don't want too and find it hard to say no. I am shattered, hungry and just really need some time to talk to DH.