My son treats me like shit because he doesn't like his sister

[JustFabulous]

No way round this, is there? .

{desperate}

When they start being rude, etc with me I ask that is wrong, what is the problem, what do they want from me, in the hope it will stop a full blown issue but I get nothing back or he screams at me something negative about his sister.

I have tried the ignoring but they escalate against each other or just get really really rude to me. I usually snap too .

DH came home, I went to talk to him. They had tea, all happy together, all friendly.

Everytime ds speaks to us it is rude and he laughs at us.

You can do this. You are a great mum even if it is the most frustrating job on earth! My children are still babies so I've no experience at dealing with older kids but if he wants your dd to go to the PIL does he actually mean he wants some more attention from you? Is there a way you could do an activity with him without the younger ones? I'm not sure about how the school system works for older children, but is he about to start a new school and worried about it?

I would second whoever said you and your DH need to have a chat with him and try and turn this around now. Can you make a list of what you deem to be his privileges (ask him to do the same?) and set down some clear rules of what is admissible and what not with a consequence. E.g confiscate phone/no tv... If he doesn't comply. when you send him to his room, give him a bottle of water to pre-empt his coming out for a drink.

Could you all sit down as a family and each child give an activity that they would like to do. Then explain that you will do x activity, but then they must not complain when doing someone elses choice.

For the shopping could you let them plan a meal each (obviously with supervision) and then each one is responsible for making sure that you have the right things in the trolley etc and even helping prepare it.

Write a list of chores, including the ones you do and explain to them that this is what has to be done to keep the household running and give them some responsibility (at least during the holidays) and that these things have to be done before they get to do what they want to do.

But, as I say,I have no experience dealing with children the age of yours so those suggestions could just be laughable. I have it all to come...

DS1 just came and said sorry for how he was yesterday and he is going to try harder today. I have heard it all before but I am going to be positive and treat it as it was said.

I know he wants more one to one time with me/daddy but it is really hard to do that when there is one of me, three of them and I have no family. He has just asked if they can all go to Grandma and Grandad's for the day so I have texted them.

Malikat - your ideas are all very good and definitely ones I am going to try and do, thank you.

Glad to hear you sound more positive today :)

I think half the battle is already won. He realises that his behaviour is out of order and acknowledges that something has to change. That is a huge positive and means that you have something to work on together. It would be much harder if he denied there was anything wrong in the way in which he treats you. Good luck!

No bollocking here, love.
Lots of sympathy though, sounds like a familiar nightmare, just like mine were when little.
At least he's thinking, and knows he's wrong. It will get better. Would it be possible to sit down, just with him, and between you come up with some different ways of him dealing with being cross with his sister? Like, go to his room and shout, punch pillows. Have you got a garden he could play in?
Hope you have a better day/days.

Can you DS stay on his own with his grandparents for a few nights? I grew up in a family of 3 children and we all used to have our own 'holiday' with our grandparents, it gave us each a lovely treat and a break from each other. Would your parents be able to help out with this?

I assume you have researched all the local activities available? Some local authorities/churches offer very reasonably holiday schemes etc.

It's great that he has come and apologised today. It proves you are doing a great job and he does recognise bad behaviour.

I suspect it is a whirl of hormones making him loose control when he is rude.

When it happens again I would express calm disappointment and not react further until it passes. Then talk to him about how he was feeling at the time.

The 'in the moment' reaction to it is feeding his attention seeking anger/rudeness IMO. I would ramp up the attention during the times he is compliant.

You are doing well keep positive.

"When they start being rude, etc with me I ask that is wrong, what is the problem, what do they want from me, in the hope it will stop a full blown issue but I get nothing back or he screams at me something negative about his sister."

This leapt out at me - I really wouldn't do this(well,I might,TBH,but I don't think it's the right approach!). It doesn't matter what's wrong - they shouldn't be being rude.People who want other people to address their problems need to be calm(ish) and prepared to talk politely about it.(Now ask how well I manage this when DS (12) is kicking off...)

If he has come to you off his own bat and apologised that is good,there is obviously a decent young man in there.

Just out of interest,why didn't you take him with you to the vet,if you had cover for his siblings? That would be one to one time - not very exciting but maybe worth it? Though I understand with some pet problems you wouldn't want your DCs there...

It's great he apologised.
I think you'd be surprised- a lot of perfectly functioning families are like this: if anyone saw yours at tea all laughing they would have thought everything was hunky dory all the time, but no ones life is.
Don't put yourself down. He is your first eleven year old boy (I imagine) he is an individual, of course you don't know how to react all the time.
The summer holidays are bloody long. Hope the time with grandparents help. Is he going to new school? Is he worried about that?
I agree with posters who suggest more one to one time even if it's something dull. Eg. Come and sort the washing out with me, I'll give you some sweets/tv time if you do a good job. Then put the radio on and talk about songs of your youth or something.
My stroppy 11 yr old is at his dads so it's easy for me to say but keep going. You care and he does know that.

I agree with the others about the one to one time with your ds. It doesn't have to be a specific trip out, organised one I mean but maybe an hour with you when your ones are in bed, a trip to the supermarket or an errand or something.

Pre teen boys are a volatile mix of hormones and blossoming independenc e and I sometimes think that it must be a horrible time for them. When he's kicking off don't engage and leave him to calm down before you go and speak to him as I have found with my ds any interaction just fuels the flames.

My ds is twelve and we have been through this, still are, he hates his five year old sister and drives me barmy. I do find though he appreciates the little one to ones and I find he tells me stuff that he can't do when his three younger sisters are around .

l agree with those who say it could be early onset of raging teenage hormones. Also coupled with some unresolved or maybe just ressurected sibling rivalry , which l know from experience can fester terribly for years and be very destructive.
l swear my DD - also my eldest interestingly, l think they are more susceptible to this - used to even count the peas on her younger brothers plate to check for even the slightest evidence that l favoured him by giving him one more pea.
But half joking apart it was an awful time. l just think she resented his arrival as she was the sole centre of the universe and then along he comes pinching some of her attention and god forbid even being prioritised at times as a helpless baby. We just didnt notice it happening until it was pretty deep rooted. To this day she still does what l call 'keeping score' (now grown up with DCs of their own !) with things like how often l visit them both respectively etc etc. That's how deep rooted it can become and l think she will always have a little bit of that in her character.
So l think the advice about maybe taking him to do things, just you and him is a really good idea and make him feel more valued (not suggesting he isnt btw) as the eldest. Not suggesting days out with mum might ruin his street cred unless of course he is up for that then fine. But more things like taking him to the vets with you as someone upthread suggested or shopping with you on his own if that's ever possible, followed by two of you going for a drink maybe.

Very best of luck to you anyway and btw you absolutely are a good mother or you wouldnt care so much - simples.

Mine sometime irritate each other, probably due to the big age gap and being different genders. I sat them down and told them that family was important, that the two of them had to work it out as they were brother and sister, and would be there for each other when they needed it most, that I understood that ds could be irritating and dd could be condescending, but think what life would be like without each other to annoy.

I made them write down three things they liked about each other, and got them got them to stand up and read them out.

They also had to make something for the other one, and wrap it. Dd made ds a toy car out of balsa wood, ds drew her a picture.

I also took a "top three biggest peeves" and asked them to negotiate with each other, with me as a referee. So he won't touch her sewing anymore, and she will ask me before demanding the wii is turned off mid game, so he loses everything, etc. We now have a family meeting on Monday mornings so I can take requests, as long as we balance it out with good stuff and it doesnt turn into a witch hunt!

We also ran over the big no nos in the house. No derogatory language directed towards each other, no hitting or destructive behaviour, and to remember we are a family, we love each other, and life can be so much happier if we make an effort to be kind and nice to each other. I agreed to give each of them one day alone time a month with me or dh and give them one on one time throughout the day.

I agree you absolutely ARE a good mother, it sounds like you care a lot. Kids test boundaries, they need guidance, it doesnt make anyone less of a mother that this is the case.

I bought him a punch ball quite a few years ago - maybe 5 - when he was using me as a punch bag but he didn't use it much and then broke it.

We have a massive garden to play in with balls, a trampoline and a climbing frame.

My PIL (I don't have parents) do take one child at a time for a night or two of sleep overs and it would be DS1's turn next time they are able to do it. They have all gone there for the day today and are all very happy.

My baby sitter didn't turn up so I took all the kids to the vet with me. They were okay according to the receptionist. I don't want to take them into the room with me.

I need help in learning to ignore and not responding but it is hard when I do that, the kdis shout at me that I don't care that X has done this, or that I don't love them, etc etc.

I can't believe how normal my kids are. As I had a fucked up childhood in care I thought I was doing everything wrong and that was why I had no control of my children!

DS1 keeps asking to be left at home while I go and do X but I am not sure if that is okay to do. In my head I hear mumsnetters saying "what if you die/crash/collapse while out"!

Your family sounds perfectly normal,JustFabulous!

poor thing just fab

I think you have got sucked into being a part of the drama rather than an independent overseer who doesnt get emotionally involved. the bored policeman example above is very good.

If you get involved by, trying to see what they want from you, entering discussions about rudeness etc you ARE perpetuating it all, really, they want a rise from you and they are getting it, which in turn is reinforcing their behaviour.

You must find a way to draw line under it all, whatever that is - a day out with your own friends, an early night followed by steely resolve, whatever you need.

Write a plan for yourself with the new rules (not many of them) and consequences - you must always stick to the same consequences so the kids know whats coming and know its all fair.

Dont get drawn into discussing if you are being fair or not - this is what they want, they are playing with you.

Find a way to hold your temper. All breaches of the rules get insistent bored policeman.

Your rules must have extra serious consequences built in for children not sticking to the consequences you have drawn up - this will, stop you from yelling "now your grounded for a whole year" etc and they will know you mean business.

Every single time the kids do something that is the OPPOSITE of rule breaking you must praise them (but dont go overboard with the 11 yr old)

If you need help with rules and consequences tell us more about what exactly the problems are and what your kids like to do

"what do they want from me" I think this is an overwhelming question to ask an 11 yr old who is confused about things and can't define things for an adult. I agree with the bored policeman approach and not getting involved in their dramas. it is great he apologised, give him a fresh start each time - I know it is not easy but you have to be the bigger person.

You sound very sad but try to smile and laugh with them. I hope things pick up, best of luck.

Do you treat him a bit worse than her?

Do you have a bit more time for any one of the kids?

It has definitely helped to talk about things and I am having a break as the kids have gone to their grandparents for the day. Still constantly thinking of them though. Have made them strawberry icecream (easy peasy, 3 ingredients and none of the unfathomable ingredients that you can get in shop bought ice cream, so hopefully no hyper reactions).

The children argue about their siblings coming in and out of their rooms without asking and often taking things, usually books.

One might get upset if the other doesn't want to play with them or one will ask one and the one asked wants to play it their way, so no one gets to play.

They have been known to physically hurt each other.

DH says the only thing that was working is to send them to their rooms until the next meal time. I feel that is too long and yesterday DS1 was happy to go as he got away from DD. They also come down after so long and say can I come out now?

I haven't used the step for a bit as they just sit on it and laugh/shout/throw things or another child will go and talk to them even though I say to stay away from them.

All the children are treated the same though DS2 might get a little lee-way if I feel it is warranted as he is only 7.

We are always together so no one gets more one to to one than others though we have tried taking one out and leaving the other 2 at home with the other parent. That often brings "that's not fair" comments though even though we say you went on that day or you will go next.

I too am in a similar situation.
3 boys aged 15, 13 and 10 and I've been single for 9 years. I run a pre-school, so have knowledge of children etc etc.
Up until last summer I suppose I ran a tight household....routine, manners, etc then I made the mistake of getting all 3 an xbox each for their birthdays!!!!!! Big mistake!!!

Most days I could sit and cry (and sometimes I actually do)...the attitude of my youngest winds me right up....he is rude, selfish, entitled, aggressive...not all the time but when he doesn't get his own way!!!
All 3 wind each other up....2 have to share a room and I've tried all variations but nine seem to work!!!
I have no patience and I admit I'm very shouty...which i know is why he shouts back at me!!!
There is obviously a long back story to all this where his dad is concerned but I'm at my wits end most days

I'm going to invest in that book that someone mentioned Raising Boys!!

I would agree that is too long. Perhaps better to have a shorter time of 20 mins or so. After which they should apologise (supernanny style).

They usually say the words but it really doesn't sound like they mean it. Does that matter? If they don't mean it, what am I achieving by getting them to say it?

Just so you know, there is about 2 years between my older brother and I as well.

We fought ALL THE TIME

I wasn't allowed in his room, he would wind me up, I would yell, I would tantrum because he was better than me.

The only thing was my dad took my brother aside and said he was NEVER allowed to hurt me (first). If I hit him, he could hit me back but he was never allowed to hit me first. My brother did it a couple times, my dad smacked the crap out of him (never hit girls etc) and that stopped completely

So while we fought, it never got physical.