3.5 yr old DD is a bit too intense for other parents. HELP!!

[bellbottom]

Hello,
feeling a bit down and lonely.
Without wanting to ' label' my dd as I don't like doing that, she is the kind of child that other kids love but seems to be causing concern to other parents. It's making me feel singled out and alone, which I find very hard to cope with as I am already a single mum, no dad involved, living abroad without family. So i have only myself to turn to, besides mumsnet and a few close friends.
Dd is very high energy, both mentally and physically. She is also very mature and perceptive for her age, persistent and very assertive, strong minded and tough. She is also a huge amount of fun to be with, has a huge sense of humour. All in all, larger than life.
I don't have any worries that she'll be fine in life. Only that she does seem to be a bit too overwhelming for some parents. She is a leader type of person and sometimes becomes quite mischeivious with her friends, also in their company she tends to egg them on a bit and those kids start to become less obedient to their parents. She is also going through a phase of light teasing, which in my mind is harmless and only a reflection of her looking for more of a challenge. I'm confident it will pass. It's only things like, 'I have this and you do not'. Or ' i can go faster than you' etc. Recently things have become a little tense between myself and the parents of her best friend. Up till now it was great, and now we have had to have discussions. It seems they have taken little things really personally, like dd was trying to blow out the candles of his birthday cake, she told him her grandma was prettier than his, that kind of thing, at his party. I see it as harmless and i interpret it as her trying to say that she too has a grandma that she loves very much and misses as she's in england. And with the other stuff its just that she wants to be a part of what he has and doesnt yet know what it means to let him have his moment of glory all for himself.
I'm getting scared about how she'll fit in in the future. Especially worried if she is perhaps reacting to the fact that she has no family here like other kids do. Is it a sign that she is going to strike out about this in the future even more? Or am I making too much of this?
Are there any other parents out there with intense and bright kids? I read up on spiritied kids, but I don't think she fits that description, as she never cries for long, gets over problems quickly, sleeps right through every night guranteed. I don't think she is a spirited child. But does anyone with a smiliar child have any advice they can offer?
Thanks

sorry, the above was referring to the OP's situation.

I would also add, that what irritates is repeated satements which tend to minimise of excuse bad behaviour. Even if you, as a parent are thinking there's an emotional or psychological reason for naughtiness, you should apologise unreservedly for hurt caused.

That is what people reacted to first of all in this thread. A number of us were very understanding and related our own experiences.

"repeated statements which tend to minimise or excuse......"

Paranoia averted! always apologise-sometimes a bit too much.

Jamie, I agree with your post.

I do think though that for a post that isn't in AIBU, asks for HELP!, and starts off with the OP saying she is a bit down, the advice generally could have been more kindly handed out. Not directing this at you but in general maybe a few more questions to check if posters assumptions about the OP not stepping in at the candle blowing etc were correct etc would have been a kinder way to get the whole picture.

I do think some parents are naturally good at parenting and all credit to them. Some of us are less than perfect and sometimes need help and guidance. Excessive criticism (again, this is not directed at you) doesn't help anyone though, especially when it sounds a bit smug and (later) troll-huntery.

Oh yes - I used to do that too. Sometimes it backfires on you because it gives the other party the impression that what happened was far more serious than it actually was ......

It's a minefield

X-post Scroobius - I think some buttons got pressed and I agree about the AIBU thing, but I think there are very few rude posts

Oh yes-I've learnt that one! And draws attention nicely to the thing you're trying to forget! But what would I do with nowt to fret about?

I don't know how this three and a half year old can have already exhibited all these amazing character traits.

I can't be bothered to check that thoroughly, but's she's brainy, advanced, articulate, confident, funny, a leader, and so on. I keep picturing this three yr old astride a horse in a kind of Henry V type of way, leading all the other children because she is just like so, totally amazing...

The DD is probably alright, though I can't imagine that many folk would want to invite her for a play date when she says such nasty things.
And yes, if she is so brainy, she will know that the things she says are nasty.
OP - How would you feel if your DD had a friend who said to her 'My Mummy is much prettier than your Mummy.'? Not great I would imagine.

You've put backs up because you have been one of the rudest posters we've had in these parts for quite some time.
You've also maybe put backs up because - and I don't know if anyone else would agree - it's just not cricket to talk about your DD the way you have.

"it's just not cricket to talk about your DD the way you have."

very unBritish eh?

again, I wonder whether the reaction would have been the same if the child was a boy.

lingle - I'm not sure. I know you're alluding at this unhelpful stereotype about assertive, lively girls being labelled "bossy", but I'v got two boys and I am very alert to the effects of "light teasing" amongst boys

FGS people - the child is 3!!!

She's not bullying or trying to make the other children sad, she is just saying what she thinks - and probably showing off a bit. Three year olds don't really get the impact their actions/statement have on other people yet.

And the birthday candles thing is completely typical too - as a veteran of very many birthday parties, I can assure you the first thing most small children do when they spot a cake with candles on, is to try to blow the candles out.

OP - I think that all you really need to be doing at this stage is making sure that you have firm, consistent boundaries for your daughter and that other parents see you enforcing them. Explain to your daughter (she does sound bright) that saying certain things will make people sad, or that people are happier when she behaves nicely. It'll all work out.

lingle - hello! Not sure the boy/ girl thing makes any difference. I was wasn't accepting when my ds1's friend kept saying things to put him down (OP's 'light teasing'). When it was day after day it was wearing. He is a competitive (and possibly insecure) little boy, which is where the 'I'm better than you/ got more/ you're rubbish' comments stemmed from. But I still didn't like it, and did appreciate the mother intervening.

*"it's just not cricket to talk about your DD the way you have."

very unBritish eh?*

I'm not British either. Don't know of many cultures where the OP would have gone over very well, though.

It's surely not cultural for people to find a brash rude child distasteful?

Sorry, I was unclear. I find it a bit jarring to read all the boastful things written about a 3 year old.

When talking about her DD's (many)attributes she make her sound like a cross between Hillary Clinton, Victoria Wood and Mother Theresa.

oh, no, Nigella - I think your post was clear - and spot on. Totally agree.

I think notnotter and i were being surprised by lingle's post, which seemed to suggest that folks were being too tough on the OP because after all, she's from a different culture, in which OP's child's behavior/OP's response would be the norm. Or for that matter that people are responding as they have because of innate sexism about how children shoud behave.

When actually, I don't think sexism or cultural relativity have much to do with the way people took the OP.

Hello bellbottom. I've only read a bit of the thread but couldn't leave without posting as your dd could have been mine. Secretely we were a bit proud of our bright and engaging dd at that age. She was and still is a leader and way ahead in terms of being streetwise and capable.

However...............

I want to tell you to be very and extremely careful.

I too excused my dd's behaviour somewhat towards her peers as she used to be when young very popular.

My dd lost her best friend who I think - unravelling it all as she has now left teh country and had a lovely tactful mum who never said a word to me - just got fed up wtih dd being so bossy and trampling all over her feelings.

I remember when it sort of hit home a few years back when dd was 5 - I picked her up from best friend 's house and walked into bf's bedroom to find dd in bf's fancy dress costume looking lovely and happy and bf sobbing that she'd asked dd to take the dress off numerous times but dd wasn't listening. What struck me was how scarily divorced dd was from the distress that she was causing her bf and how she could remain so unaffected and composed in teh face of it?

Cue one strong talk wtih dd and now she's 8 we still struggle quite intensively with this concept of other people matter and so do their feelings.

I think this selfishness does go wtih early childhood as dd is now starting to come out of it. In some ways she is gorgeous - very very quick to resolve other people's disoputes /to pick up the lost nursery child in hte playground or help the teacher clean up /help the weaker child quitely so no one else notices in maths.

But she still struggles in the playground and deosn't get many playdate invites as she can mstill unleash a torrent of nasty behaviour when things don't go your way.

In a way I blame myself for indulging her a bit when she was young assuming she'd grow out of it and that it was part and parcel of bieng bright and streetwise. It isn't and needs to be worked on.

lisalisa how honest and insightful

glad your daughter is growing in maturity and empathy you must feel proud not least with yourself for helping her

just wondering if it was a 3 yr old party or 4 yr old party?
If it were 3 then I would expect all the kiddies were trying to blow out the candles ! Does your dd have much experience of birthday parties?
If it were 4 yr old party I would expect that the other kids were able to try restrain themselves from blowing the candles out!
We had a 4 yr old birthday party and 2 yr old party in our house in the last month so I m just thinking of what I observed there too.
I think some of the replies here a re a little harsh, but maybe they do contain a little truth.
My ds is pretty good socially and great at talking etc loves being the leader, But I ve found he really does need coaching on social niceties such as not taking over his pals games - grabbing, not being the one to always shout out the answer etc etc and making sure not the jump the q at games, and we ve had to teach him to help include others that are shier or quieter or smaller- having a sibling I ve noticed has really improved this (though of course so has some developmental maturity) It s not about dumbing him down or breaking his spirit but teaching him social responsibility and consideration for others.

Your dd sounds like she has some lovely qualities - she s playful and chatty and fun.
out of interest ..do you or dh 'play tease' her - like the 'my granny is prettier that yours' (bet her gran is chuffed) situation? She might not be able translate that kind of adult humour to a child situation and other kids might not be able take it!

Also if she s chatty and social she can come across as being 'older' than 3.5 - other parents could expect more from her than she s able to give, it is your job to teach her, and be her advocate in a positive way.
TBH I think the candle blowing issue sounds a bit petty and I m a bit surprised to hear all the slating regarding a 3 1/2 yr old wanting to blow out candles, but I m wondering if it s all situational - as in the straw that s breaking the camels back? Maybe she s been overshadowing her little pal a bit and maybe the parents are really feeling it and need a bit of support - like you teaching your dd to wait or encourage the pal to go first?

Sometimes children behave like this because they are NOT confident - or they are seeking attention.
Things are getting tense between yourself and the parent of your DDs best friend probably because of YOUR reaction ( or non reaction!!) and not your child's behaviour.

Your DD is trying to find her way - Your job is to guide her and teach her what is and what is not acceptable.
I am sure your DD IS bright but she sounds like she needs a firm hand with firm boundaries !

Just a funny or was if you were there! story about friends DD who sounds similar to OP's DD. She of course is like this because she's strong-willed etc.

Always did the 'I am better than you at......', 'you can't do.....' etc etc.

One day my DS turned around and said ' I don't care because I'm nicer than you, and I don't need to say horrible things about others to get friends'. Friends DD literally rolled on the floor in tears, screaming tantrum (she's 6!). Was very interesting to see she couldn't take it.

OP I think you've been treated shockingly on this thread, your dd sounds v like mine, feisty, strong willed, assertive, v v v energetic, and sometimes antagonistic to other kids. I've been through the bloody mill with trying to manage her behaviour, her social interactions, her manners everything. She can be AN ANGEL, but also the total opposite.

I've ignored, been strict, shouted, run the whole gamut of Webster Stratton parenting strategies the lot. Saying that i don't think the things you describe would mark her as a brat tbh. And I work in child mental health.

The blowing candles out, lost count of the number of kids who tried to do this at dds 4th party, not a big deal. A bit of firm but gentle admonishment and re light the candles, end of. Re the Grandma thing, I hear little girls come out with this knid of stuff all the time, then they strop for a minute then MOVE ON. However if they've constantly got a hoverer there they never even learn to self manage and turn into horrible bleating tale tellers. The Grandma statement was not bullying ffs, kids go through phases of this, again if it's overheard, a quite aside explaining why it's not nice should suffice. "you're not my friend" has been the constant refrain of dd and her friends for the past year or so, and now they're older hey presto they're growing out of it.

And my dd is intense, she never stops talking, she's emotional, she is very sensitive. That's her temperament and hopefully with the right guidance she can flourish but I don't intend on dampening her down, or breaking her spirit like some parents do with their kids. Her bf has an older brother by 3 years he had a complete meltdown when she called him "silly" (as his little sister was doing also), he was 7 at the time. IMO if he had a bit of backbone to him he wouldn;t fall to pieces at being called silly by a 4 year old girl. He would have called her silly back and there would have been a minor spat and they would have got over it. But he couldn't handle it, because of the way he'd been parented.

Children need to be able to self-regulate and cope with adversity. The odd bit of teasing is neither here nor there. And i speak as someone who was bullied by the same girl from age 7 to 16. I know what shitty behaviour in kids is.

IMO if he had a bit of backbone to him he wouldn;t fall to pieces at being called silly by a 4 year old girl. He would have called her silly back and there would have been a minor spat and they would have got over it. But he couldn't handle it, because of the way he'd been parented.

are you for real? you describe your DD as "very sensitive", and then go on to tear into a 7 year old little boy for exhibiting some actual sensitivity.
i'd so, so, so much rather be the parent of a nice child, even if it means my kid might be upset by the bullying behaviour of others, than be the parent of the kid who gangs up to make others cry.

i know what shitty behaviour in kids is too. i think you have just described it.

when dd gets upset because one of her friends has said "you're not my friend" I tell her to ignore it and that they'll soon be back friends again soon. I don't over milk it. She does have one friend who has bullied her, properly, shouting her down, deliberately leaving her out, being +++ controlling.

I don't think saying "you're silly" once to a brother of a friend who's sister was also calling him silly was bullying . They were just 4 at the time. She prob wouldn't have done it if she'd been alone so maybe his sister was the "bully", oh no of course she wasn't she was his sister riling him, like siblings do.

I find kids who whine, and tell tale, and dissolve into tears are usually pandered to, excessively. And the whining and "he said she said" behaviour is often reinforced because they get so much attention from the parents.

Clearly they got told off for doing it, but quickly and that if they did it again there'd be more consequences, the thing is children wind each other up, they all do, some v v v subtley. But the ones who say things out loud are classed as "not nice" because they're more obvious.

Hmm poster on another thread worried about an aspect of dds behaviour recently and was told the other Mum was "overreacting" and "out of order". Funny how things change.