3.5 yr old DD is a bit too intense for other parents. HELP!!

[bellbottom]

Hello,
feeling a bit down and lonely.
Without wanting to ' label' my dd as I don't like doing that, she is the kind of child that other kids love but seems to be causing concern to other parents. It's making me feel singled out and alone, which I find very hard to cope with as I am already a single mum, no dad involved, living abroad without family. So i have only myself to turn to, besides mumsnet and a few close friends.
Dd is very high energy, both mentally and physically. She is also very mature and perceptive for her age, persistent and very assertive, strong minded and tough. She is also a huge amount of fun to be with, has a huge sense of humour. All in all, larger than life.
I don't have any worries that she'll be fine in life. Only that she does seem to be a bit too overwhelming for some parents. She is a leader type of person and sometimes becomes quite mischeivious with her friends, also in their company she tends to egg them on a bit and those kids start to become less obedient to their parents. She is also going through a phase of light teasing, which in my mind is harmless and only a reflection of her looking for more of a challenge. I'm confident it will pass. It's only things like, 'I have this and you do not'. Or ' i can go faster than you' etc. Recently things have become a little tense between myself and the parents of her best friend. Up till now it was great, and now we have had to have discussions. It seems they have taken little things really personally, like dd was trying to blow out the candles of his birthday cake, she told him her grandma was prettier than his, that kind of thing, at his party. I see it as harmless and i interpret it as her trying to say that she too has a grandma that she loves very much and misses as she's in england. And with the other stuff its just that she wants to be a part of what he has and doesnt yet know what it means to let him have his moment of glory all for himself.
I'm getting scared about how she'll fit in in the future. Especially worried if she is perhaps reacting to the fact that she has no family here like other kids do. Is it a sign that she is going to strike out about this in the future even more? Or am I making too much of this?
Are there any other parents out there with intense and bright kids? I read up on spiritied kids, but I don't think she fits that description, as she never cries for long, gets over problems quickly, sleeps right through every night guranteed. I don't think she is a spirited child. But does anyone with a smiliar child have any advice they can offer?
Thanks

oh sorry last sentence is all odd, I meant it to say, And you would be very welcome......

OP, you've taken enough of a kicking (and so has your DD) so I'm not going to add to that.

I actually think you are reading too much into this in the sense that I doubt it's about the fact that she's living abroad away from her family or because she's bright. It's because she's 3. 3 year olds are egocentric little pains in the arses at times and they haven't developed any empathy. As long as you continue to address her behaviour firmly and consistently then she will get there in the end. If she is academically way ahead of her peers then I'd speak to nursery about these social issues she is having and ask them to help you address them.

I think if you want to keep your friendships you need to be seen to be very visibly doing something, I don't mean that you need to be seen to rant and rave at your DD - take her out of the room quickly when she's misbehaving and deal with it in your chosen manner. But do make sure they can see that you've noticed what she's doing and are dealing with it quickly. Then apologise to your friends and their children for whatever it is she's done. I'd take her home too if she continues to misbehave.

OP, I think you sound like a good, concerned mum and I do hope that you are taking home some of the points raised above.

I think the key message is that people in RL might be willing to gloss-over this behaviour from a 3 year old but they sure as heck won't put up with it from a 7,8,9 year old. My DD (9) has some rude friends like this and I absolutely judge their parents for the lack of discipline. You have to stop this behaviour immediately and firmly. Zero-tolerance policy for rudeness, unkindness or anything of that nature.
One of my kids is quite similar to your DD's description. I would do a controlled version of MENTAL if he tried to blow out the candles on someone else's cake or said anything hurtful.

I do empathize with having a challenging kid, though. It's bloody hard work and with children like this I'd say that the discipline is equal parts "making a good person" and "done for appearance's sake".

I agree with that - with my biter it was about being firm (but not a fishwife - that made it worse), and being seen to be firm.

OP, I don't think being that defensive is doing your case any favours. If you genuinely want some lsupport for yourself, and help for your daughter, please be a bit more humble. This is ultimately about her, and as such you should be pleased that no-one is saying she sounds awful or criticising her. But what we have said is that the way you are handling her or handling any 'criticism' of her behaviour isn't doing her any favours. So please, for her sake, can you take some stuff on board. Funnypeculiar's post is great btw!

Oh and perhaps you could give us some examples of how you're currently dealing with her behaviour - i.e. what did you do when she attempted to blow out the candles? How do you deal with the showing off 'my granny's prettier than your granny' type of stuff? Maybe someone could give you some more constructive advice if we knew what you were currently doing.

Bellbottom I think you must be very upset by all of these responses.

In the main I agree with the general advice - setting boundaries and having chats about what's socially acceptable, and so on.

But I do think some of these people are being a bit preach-y and enjoying coming down on you. I don't think your original post or the subsequent ones really make you come across as rude - I think you are just arguing your side.

Most of us are able to be objective about others' problems and give a cold, hard response - but it's much harder to apply the correct behaviours to your own life as you are so busy living it and sometimes situations creep up and before you know it you start to realise 'hey, hang on a minute, my child seems to be annoying people here' and it takes a while to figure it all out whereas an onlooker can tell you straight.

Bellbottom I think you probably know the general advice you're getting is right but I also think you're justified in wanting to tell evryone to eff off...

And another thing (sorry) - I did spend a LOT of time with dd talking about the emotional consequences of her behaviour at that age. So really getting her to think about how the 'offended' person might feel/how she would feel if someone said/did that to her. My tagline was always "In this family, we are KIND to people". I don't have to do that as much anymore (have only just realised that - maybe she is getting better!)

Mouth, you don't think this is rude

"Its ok, I'm sure you have your own frustrations in life like the rest of us, its just that some people look to their own issues and ask for help, like I was doing, whilst others like yourself prefer to slaughter someone else to achieve a feeling of relief. You carry on. I know your type and prefer to stay far away from people like that. Not possible on mumsnet unfortunately, as there is always one that stands out the most and rears their ugly head on your post time and time again. Now go away and practice those social graces that you appear to know so much about!!!!!!"

Letterbox Library. Fab little online book shop

i have a friend who has a child like yours OP.

i have stopped seeing her when her dc is there now.

sorry, probably not what you want to hear.

MerryMarigold - no I don't think it's rude. I think it is a reaction of self defense. I think that she is upset and losing it a bit as she is getting a deluge of 'sensible, practical' advice with a few insults (light teasing even!) thrown in. It must be hard to just take that on the chin. Most people would react indignently and then over the course of a few days accept it.

Do like the thread. As someone else said earlier, has made me think a bit about my DS (just 4) and handling some of his behaviour. He is sensitive and usually very well behaved socially (if anything would shy away from blowing out his own candles) but can be controlling around the house. I think I need to crack down on that a bit, without knocking his confidence.

I am not too bothered about wanting to be seen to be disciplining him, unless it's something really bad. It's more about wanting to make his life (and mine!) easier and happier ultimately...

Mouth - I agree it can take time to process advice

More advice - I think you have to apologise for your child's behaviour - the candles thing is a prime example.

Agree about processing over a few days...

I think the point about being seen to discipline is a valid one. As the parent of a child who was often 'talked down to' (several examples per day of how he was better than my ds1) by another child, it gave me confidence in the mother, that she would pull her child up on his behaviour. He didn't change, but at least I was aware she didn't just accept it. We're still friends. And even though are older ds's aren't really friends anymore, we both have younger ds's who are friends.

Am actually quite shocked at some of the nasty comments from Mumsnetters. They seem to be getting a perverse enjoyment at putting OP down and making all sorts of vitriolic assumptions about her that they can not possiblty know. Of course there are others who have replied because they genuinely want to help. FWIW I have come across other small children who have tried to blow out the candles on other children's birthday cakes. It is not so shocking and they don't necessariy grow up to be bossy bullies (unlike some of the posters here) as long as their parents keep reinforcing the right way to behave. At 3 it does tend to be me, me, me. Empathy is something that people develop at different rates. Alas some never develop it much as we have just witnessed.

Like everyone else has tried to tell you, you need to start setting boundaries as how you are interpreting her behaviour isn't how its seen by other parents and children. Other parents are not necessarily upset by her, but by you not preventing it - not surprising as you clearly don't see it as a problem.

Two options - carry on as you are and have her as the centre of your world but rejected by her peers as she gets older. OR start pulling her up and watch your child flourish.

Bellbottom, I know it is hard to see and hear others reacting negatively to your child but please try to think about some of the comments and how they could be applied to your situation. I have a lovely friend with an absolutely awfully behaved daughter. At 3.5, that little girl was just like yours sounds in your OP. And yes, she is a clever little girl but it wasn't related to that. I think it was related to the fact that her parents were prepared to excuse all kinds of unkind behaviour because she was only young and how could she know any better? Now, in year 1, this child is very isolated socially because a school year of mean comments (of exactly the 'I can do this better' type), bossiness and unwillingness to conform to adult expectations have led to a situation where other children do not enjoy her company and adults don't want to have to deal with her behaviour. My friend is sad and her daughter is unhappy at school. I can't say this kind of thing as plainly to her in real life as others have done to you on this thread because I like my friend and I don't want to upset her (obviously I try to gently explain why others feel as they do). But she kind of doesn't hear and doesn't seem to notice that other children simply don't behave like this on a regular basis.

Perhaps your daughter is more than ready for the academic side of school but it sounds to me as if she is a long way off being ready for the social side, and you can help her with this. Start talking about words and how people can be upset by them to her. Start pointing out how her actions could make others sad. Start saying no really firmly.

At 3.5, my daughter, also bright, was perfectly capable of having it pointed out that she wouldn't like it if someone said that to her/did that to her and taking it on board a little bit. A bright child should be more capable of taking other people's feelings into account, not less capable!

I really hope you can turn this around for your daughter as I'm sure she has plenty of good points to go with the bad, as all children do!

A girl approached my dd (3) and spoke to her. My dd looked up at me and said 'i'm not going to answer that girl because I don't like her'

I was MORTIFIED. Made my dd say sorry and offer her one of her sweets.

I'm not a brilliant parent. I am a normal parent.

You seem very concerned that you tell us all how bright and tough she is whereas we all read that as pushy and a bit nasty. You seem afraid to teach her what is right and to tell her off for hurtful comments. Don't indulge these horrible traits, put them right and she will be a lovely little girl. Imagine if some other child had tried to blow her candles out, I bet you and her would have been outraged and there would have been uproar about it. People won't put up with trying behaviour especially when the mother doesn't pull her daughter up on it immediately and very firmly in publc.

Being seen to be disciplining can sometimes come across as almost showing off. I think the child should usually be taken to one side and told firmly why what they were doing was wrong and if any major tantrums, just removed from the situation. They should apologise if they hurt someone. Sometimes though - not always - with the whole 'being seen to be' thing, I feel like some parents almost compete at displaying just how un-biased they are towards their own child. Like once, at a children's play place, one mum berated her child publically for pushing in and getting on a car before another child. They were only 2, if that. But she didn't stop going on about it and then pulled her child away and then a couple of minutes he was brought back to apologise (again) to the other boy.

It's just about getting the right balance that is suited to the child's age group I suppose. It's really hard.

My son once told my friend he didn't want her to come to our house and I felt terrible and told him off. I knew he was worried her coming would mean he couldn't watch something on tv!! Sometimes kids have ulterior motives for being rude, and although that doesn't make it any less rude, I think it's worth thinking about when you're disciplining them because sometimes the behaviour is code for something else...

In our group of friends we had a parent who didn't discipline their child, made excuses, said it was because he was "bright".

We didn't say anything, she probably thought we agreed with her opinion of her child. We just stopped including them.

OP you have a choice - accept the very good advice on this thread or sit on your high horse and end up ostracised.

What I meant to say up there with that example is that I don't like it when the disciplining is more about the parent protecting their image with the other parents than about checking the child for what they have done, iyswim

I haven't come across any competitive disciplining! But we do live in a bit of a free-and-easy area. I think it's different if you are friends with people, as the OP is, even if it's just 'Mum friends' that they can see you don't just ignore/ accept bad behaviour. I'm a bit of a classic excuse-mongerer myself as I know the behaviour comes FROM something, but I am beginning to realise that you need to teach children what is acceptable/ not acceptable regardless of how they are feeling. It will come to them very quickly in school otherwise (most teachers don't have time to delve into all the reasons for bad behaviour, they just have to deal with the behaviour). The main thing is that the child should know the behaviour is wrong, not them.

I see what you mean, Mouth, and agree in a way. But if a child is repeatedly unkind, it goes a long way towards turning a blind eye on occasion if you can see that the parent is doing their best to mitigate the bad behaviour. If you see a child being repeatedly unkind and the parent sort of shrugs and assumes that all children are like this, it makes you feel that perhaps you don't want your own children to see others getting away with things that you would attempt to correct immediately. Correct maybe a bad word to choose. I mean that hopefully a parent who was on the ball would try to help their child see what was and wasn't acceptable. In this situation the blowing candles out could easily be just overexcitement and immaturity but the mean comments would make me think twice about whether or not I wanted my child to be given the message that treating other people like this was all right by some people.