3.5 yr old DD is a bit too intense for other parents. HELP!!

[bellbottom]

Hello,
feeling a bit down and lonely.
Without wanting to ' label' my dd as I don't like doing that, she is the kind of child that other kids love but seems to be causing concern to other parents. It's making me feel singled out and alone, which I find very hard to cope with as I am already a single mum, no dad involved, living abroad without family. So i have only myself to turn to, besides mumsnet and a few close friends.
Dd is very high energy, both mentally and physically. She is also very mature and perceptive for her age, persistent and very assertive, strong minded and tough. She is also a huge amount of fun to be with, has a huge sense of humour. All in all, larger than life.
I don't have any worries that she'll be fine in life. Only that she does seem to be a bit too overwhelming for some parents. She is a leader type of person and sometimes becomes quite mischeivious with her friends, also in their company she tends to egg them on a bit and those kids start to become less obedient to their parents. She is also going through a phase of light teasing, which in my mind is harmless and only a reflection of her looking for more of a challenge. I'm confident it will pass. It's only things like, 'I have this and you do not'. Or ' i can go faster than you' etc. Recently things have become a little tense between myself and the parents of her best friend. Up till now it was great, and now we have had to have discussions. It seems they have taken little things really personally, like dd was trying to blow out the candles of his birthday cake, she told him her grandma was prettier than his, that kind of thing, at his party. I see it as harmless and i interpret it as her trying to say that she too has a grandma that she loves very much and misses as she's in england. And with the other stuff its just that she wants to be a part of what he has and doesnt yet know what it means to let him have his moment of glory all for himself.
I'm getting scared about how she'll fit in in the future. Especially worried if she is perhaps reacting to the fact that she has no family here like other kids do. Is it a sign that she is going to strike out about this in the future even more? Or am I making too much of this?
Are there any other parents out there with intense and bright kids? I read up on spiritied kids, but I don't think she fits that description, as she never cries for long, gets over problems quickly, sleeps right through every night guranteed. I don't think she is a spirited child. But does anyone with a smiliar child have any advice they can offer?
Thanks

thanks everyone. Great feedback and advice.
However, I just don't understand why some people are still insisting that I don't want to hear advice or that I don't see this as something worth dealing with. Have you read my posts, including my last one? I am saying quite the opposite, so please be so kind as to try and understand me and resist the urge to jump to the wrong conclusions.
Thanks again.

Look, your dd is your dd and of course you love her and think she is wonderful and I am sure she is but what other parents see (and read from your posts) is a mother basically with the attitude of
"My dd is very bright and inquisitive and I am a single mum and light teasing is ok and everyone is overreacting"

Right.

"light teasing" is not "ok".

Once she starts school she will be punished for being mean to others. "light teasing" can often leas ot more serious bullying IME, especially wehen it is not dealt with. She will become ostracised as other children will not want to play with her. I assume this is one of the things you are concerned about?

I think perhaps a book/game about manners/being kind to others that you could read/play together might help?

Also, I do not think that a child being "bright" or "inquisitive" or "intense" is any excuse for some of the behaviour you describe. Of course those parents were angry your child blew out their sons birthday cake candles!!!!! Can you really not see how that would upset them?

She will start school soon. Time to instill some respect for others and manners I think.

Incidentally, many of those things describe how I was at that age. I had friends at primary school-the learning phase where people will give second chances and adults are more abundant and present. Until I worked out for myself how annoying I was I was a very lonely teen. I am cross with my parents for not putting me straight. I am working hard with my dd to help her manage her personality successfully. Might not always work, but I owe it to her to try.

family Thank you for sharing that.

I also really feel it is up to parents to help dc who struggle to understand societal norms/manners/tact call it what you will....all dc go through difficult periods in their development - of course they do! - but ignoring it/denying it/amking excuses for it will not help the situation.

Because all I have gone off is what YOU posted - like so many others have, lots of other people here have said same/similar to what I have said.

I was only saying from what you describe and then telling you what I have seen, I have certainly not described myself as an expert.

But if you look a few posts up, you will see Familydilemma telling you how she herself turned out and how she was a lonely teen - THAT is what i was saying, my DH has many girls at his school like that, with parents that constantly excuse their behaviour and blame others, be that other children, parents or teachers, but they have never helped them. They think everything their child does is harmless too - but it is actuallly very harmful , to the child doing all the "harmless things".

I am not ranting at you at all,I am sat here very calmly, and if you knew me, I am not like that at all in any way - but long before I posted many many posters had said things along the lines of "no wonder your daughter is rude" etc - purely from how you reacted, that was all!

Fair enough, you have decided from my posts that i have nothing better to do but drive you down, am an evil cow who has a shit life therfore has to make you feel as bad as possible - but remember, if you can decide that from my posts (none of it is not true by the way) you have to accept it works both ways and from a lot of your posts, people will decide how you come across, wether that is true or not.

Very wise post by Lemon at 00)01.

If other children feel daunted by your child, then neither they nor their parents will take any consolation in how bright she is or how fortunate you are to have such an interesting child. They are just not coming from that angle.

Ds had a very clever friend in Reception. He was also so forward and proud of himself that ds lost all his confidence and started wanting to school refuse "because I'm not clever like X". Under those circumstances I would not have wanted the mother to be thinking about her pride and delight in her ds' achievements: I wanted her to recognise that he had a problem and needed her help. Which (with the help of the teacher) she did, he gradually got better and in the end they became great real friends.

You want the best for your dd. That means separating out her loveliness from those parts of her behaviour that she still needs help with and signalling to other people that you recognise the difference.

To be fair, she doesn't sound that dreadful: I am sure most children have done similar or worse at that age. What people will be looking for at this age is the suggestion that the behaviour will eventually get sorted- and for that one looks to cues in the parent's reactions. Someone who makes excuses or sees an inevitable link between annoying behaviour and something that is a source of pride (cleverness, initiative, independence) does not convey very strong signals that they are working on the problem.

I think very much at this age is about damage limitation.

i'm with maxibrown here.

i think the reason the op is getting a hard time is because a lot of us recognise traits in her from dealings with other parents.

she's fitting a stereotype.

rather than get all het up, it's an opportunity to examine one's self and see whether there is a grain of truth.

oops sorry - maxybrown.

I also spoke to her about her actions that day at the party and she has asked me if she should aplologise next time she sees them. I said I think its a good idea.

I just wanted to say that this sounds really positive. Your daughter obviously took on board that her actions were unacceptable and wants to make amends. That's really good.

Your dd sounds very much like my ds, apart from the fact that I have not ever made excuses for him and corrected him relentlessly.

You really must knock this on the head now. It is not charming and cute, it is unpleasant and will cause her huge problems in the future.

You need very firm boundaries and to show her you will not tolerate this. She will be ruling the roost at home before you know it.

My ds, very much like this was tolerated and encouraged in his mini tyrant behaviour by friends, family and strangers, but definitely not me because he was cute, very bright and very very articulate. It left him with a sense of entitlement that I have spent most of his life trying to overcome. It is horrible behaviour and by the time time your dd is older she will be seen as arrogant and rude.

Stop her now, before she gets totally on top of you and you have no control at all.

"too intense" ! She's a brat. You need to deal with her behaviour. There's nothing bright or clever about being obnoxious and socially inept. Things will get worse if you don't nip it in the bud.

Again, thanks for the feedback.
I'm not at all the type of mother to paint my child as perfect and excuse her behaviour. I do put her right. She did not blow out the candles, because I put her right, in front of the other parents. I don't see how I fit this stereotype, other than to have listed her other strengths, which I did simply to give her a fair representation, as I love her and I do think she's great and I don't want to be the mum that is putting her down behind her back, it makes me feel awful to be on here and do that without listing her other qualities. Some of you have chosen to interpret that as bragging, but perhaps that says something about the way you choose to judge others. There is nothing wrong with what I've said about dd! Perhaps those of you buy into the mindset that you have to keep quiet and not say anything good about yourself or your children as that is arrogant. I don't buy into that, sorry. I feel credit should be given where it's due, for yourself as well as other people in your life and around you. I don't like bitterness. It also takes one to know one and mumsnet does not offer all the dimensions to achieve that, as you are being judged simply on one piece of writing, instead of a full conversation, like you would in real life.
I feel I've been honest ad fair about DD. Like I said I value some of the advice on here and I will be taking it on board - from those posters that have given it in a constructive and critical way, not from those that have seen a chance to tear into someone.
For the record, I have only labelled it as light teasing for the purpose of this website, so that people know what I am talking about. But in fact, overall I feel that labels like that do no help kids, they can play up to them. Also I agree with another poster who said that at this age they are not teasing, they are simply saying what is on their mind and not knowing that it may hurt someone elses feelings. They do not have malicious intent. I do however agree very much so that if this is left untreated and to run its own course then it will become a habit and could lead to actual real teasing later on, when they are so used to it as a way of getting a reactio from others and no longer care of the impact it has. That is what I am trying to do. To sew some seeds of conscious thought in my child, hence the role play and kindess practice at home. I came on here looking for other tips to add to my repetoire from mums/dads that may have a similar child and so know what works and what doesn't. That is all.
As I have said, I am seperating out her loveliness from the other things that are not so lovely for others and I am well aware that other parents are not interested in her abilities etc, but only want her to be a positive influence on their child, to be well mannered and to to be caring and kind. That is why I am doing something about it. Of course I know she is my child and I am the one who is proud of her! All of this has spiralled out of control - I tried to make my original post as short and concise as possible, but it has opened up so many other things which I felt I wouldn't have to explain.
I took DD to nursery today and gave her lots of suggestions on the way about how she can help the teacher there today, how to offer her help and things she can do to help with the younger ones. We also saw a bike that had blown over in the wind this morning. At first DD said ' haha, that person will not be able to get back on, haha!' and then I explained that it won't be nice for that person and they will be upset to find their bike like that. I asked her how she would feel and she said she too would feel upset. Then, of her own accord she said ' shall we pick it up when we go outside so that that person will be happy'. It made me feel very good to know that what I'm doing is working for DD. I think her first statement is also an example of her tendency to see the ridiculous in things, she does have a huge sense of humour and thats why her friends have so much fun with her. But clearly she needs to learn when to use it and when to not. I don't want her to lose her friendships. I will continue to do it every day. I know there are no short cuts to parenting and I have always put my maximum effort in. It's the ultimate love in that way, I feel.
I also agree with other posters that this is common and have had so many people in my life that know DD say that it is no big deal and happens a lot at this age. Nothing major. No reason to blow it out of all proportion, just needs gentle and consistent addressing.
Hope things are a little clearer.
I would like to round off this thread now, at least for my part. I'm sure others will add to it - it does seem to be a popular thread and that does go to show, I feel, how many people there are that can relate to this issue, which also shows how common it is and its good we are all here to talk about it.
I wish you all a lovely day ;-)

One of my main roles as a parent is to make sure my child goes out into the world and is 'liked' and 'likeable' this may mean - at times - they don't like me. I feel you are failing your dd on this front op.

Parents now translates into teachers next year ....

I don't think you are failing your dd; she is probably just a normal 3yo.

But I do think you are sending mixed messages in the way you talk about this (possibly minor) problem.

Yes, we should all see the positives and give ourselves credit as parents- but it doesn't necessarily have to be done at the same time as discussing a problem. If you do that, any apology will sound very fake, it will become a Yes, but...apology, and nobody likes those.

Seriously, if your dd is pushed over at school next year, would you really think highly of the offender's parent if they went into school and pointed out that he is so clever and charming, bless him, and they do think it very important to give themselves credit as parents, too? No you wouldn't.

If it was another parent doing it you would recognise that, though there might be a lot of truth in what they were saying, the fact that they were saying it at this precise moment made it sound as if they weren't really taking the other issue seriously.

One thing at a time will make you come across as a sincere parent, and a reputation for being parented by a sensible and sincere parent will be a great social bonus for your dd in the next few years.

And you do come across as very intense yourself. Would it be possible to relax a little, to explain things to your dd when she needs it, punish her when that is required, but not rely on everybody seeing exactly how wonderful you both are all the time? Perhaps less "ultimate love" and more "good enough parenting"?

You do seem to worry very much about little differences like not having any family here. Thousands of kids are in this situation, they don't all grow up ostracised or unhappy. But your flexibility and ability to cope cheerfully will be her best model.

You may have gone now OP but what you've described about your interaction this morning sounds very positive. If you carry on like that you will be doing a grand job.

The consistent thing that almost everyone has said on this thread is that we as parents should focus on behaviour, both positive and negative and not on innate personality traits. Which is exactly the same thing all the parenting manuals I have read say. So I think you've had good advice, even if some of it was rather too blunt.

Because in in attributing behaviour to personallity we are in danger of thinking it cannot be changed. It can become a self-fulfilling prophecy for both parent and child. It can set up social anxieties for the child which need not be there.

All easier said than done though. I struggle with it as well.

i feel like posting on this thread was a total waste of my time. anyone else?

Sounds like you're dealing with her behaviour really well OP. You sound like you know exactly what you're doing and don't actually need any constructive advice! I wonder if you just needed to talk somewhere about your DD and what she's really like because, of course, you can't really do that in real life. My DS was a bit of a difficult child and not great socially. I hated the fact that nobody really knew him, that they only saw the negative side of him as the positive bits only really came out when he was 100% at ease at home with me. He's coming up to 5 now and has really blossomed since starting school, I'm sure the same will be true of your DD.

cory Fri 04-Nov-11 10:27:24

Seriously, if your dd is pushed over at school next year, would you really think highly of the offender's parent if they went into school and pointed out that he is so clever and charming, bless him, and they do think it very important to give themselves credit as parents, too? No you wouldn't.

Excellent post cory

I have this huge antipathy towards what I call the 'don't do that darling' mothers. The ones who say 'Don't do that darling' in a sickly sweet voice to their kid who is being mean to my kid. I guess we all have different parenting styles, and I gravitate towards the fishwife/Alex-Ferguson-halftime-hairdryer mothers who are closer to my own style.

I think that some of the mothers think that I don't like their kids, but it's not that - although I must admit I do find the kids often quite.... ahem... intense! The reason I don't invite their kids over/include them on party lists etc is because my palms are itching to slap the mothers every time they simper 'oh don't hit becsDS with that, darling! That's not very nice, is it?' (Not saying I want to slap you, bellbottom, I don't know you! Am talking only about the mothers I am in daily contact with....who I do occasional long to slap.) It's just a clash of parenting style with my own more strident system. I think it's also hard for my DS to see someone doing something that he'd face severe consequences for, and to see his friend just be told 'don't do that darling'. eg if my DS tried to blow out some other kids candles at their birthday party at age 3.5, then I would have asked him to make an instant proper apology to the child (not just a mumbled 'sorry') and to come right away from the cake and accept being served last. If not, he wouldn't have been allowed to eat cake at all. And if he'd had a tantrum about no cake then he'd have been taken straight home and no TV for the next 24 hours. Yes, apparently I'm quite strict.

The OP just brought it to mind - not because you are the same - like I say, I don't know you, but the "DDTD" mothers do tend to talk about their kids like that to me 'Oh, you're so lucky with becsDS, he's so well-behaved. The thing with myDS is, he's just so spirited/intelligent/mature for his age/immature for his age/has such a sense of humour/so much energy... But he's such a lovely child.' And of course I nod and smile... Like as if my son wasn't intelligent, summer born, full of energy, mature and immature by turns, and clearly has not got a sense of humour because he's not mean... Oh dear, venting about it on MN not very mature. But it does so very push my buttons, can you tell?

Goodness me!!! I wont lie and say i've read all this thread, because it's so bloody long tbh, but some bits that I have read were a little harsh I have to say. Where as I do agree with most points, I feel that some have unfortunately fallen into the masked, mob mentality trap.

Like I say, I agree that bellbottom's comments were a little contradictrive and confusing, there really is no need to be nasty. By all means disagree, but let's keep it civil ladies. We don't need to attack and say that basically someone is completely failing their child and I really don't believe that that's the case. Whereas I do think bellbottom, it did sound from your OP that you were making excuses for your dd's rather rude/brattish behaviour and we can only go on what information you have given us, I don't think a lot of what has been written has been necessary. Having said that, i've also read some very helpful comments.

Jeeeeez. Just finished reading this thread and it does make me sigh deeply. I feel the whole point of mumsnet has been lost over time when I see this. A mother writes in showing her insecurities and worries and writing an honest profile of her dd, asking for tips but instead gets literally ganged up on, by....mothers? its bad enough what happens in the playgrounds of a lot of our schools, not to mention the gang warfare that is growing on the streets, but times like this you have to stop and wonder - where is it being taught?

Bellbottom - I don't see any harm in mentioning your dd's character traits and don't at all understand the point of others when they try to outcast you for taking that route. You were, as you say, trying to give an overall profile of her. I notice from some posters that they have suggested reading certain parenting books. Well, in ALL parenting books they break children down to different personalities and talk about varying characteristics, so how else is someone supposed to get their point across on here without listing those things?!! It certainly doesn't have to mean that OP goes around saying that to other parents, that her child is bright and mature etc, as an excuse. I mean, give her some credit! Can't you see from her approach and what she's done so far that she appears to be a sensitive and responsible parent and not at all bragging or making excuses for her dd. Really, the way most of you carry on its as if your kids have halo's around their heads. If this is the only thing worrying OP about her dd at the age of 3.5 then I think she's done very well! Especially on her own! I wonder what issues your kids have? Perhaps you'd dare not mention. And besides that, it does become very apparent that so many of you really do have deep seated complexes about another parent even daring to mention anything that makes them proud about their kid. Such an obvious case of hang-ups. Wouldn't you all like to express the things you're proud of in your kids? Whats your problem???? I mean, Becstarsky -reading about your theory on DDTD just makes me cringe. DDTD - I mean, what the heck is that all about??????!!!!!You sound like someone who just cannot bear to hear anyone speak positively on the behalf of their child. So, is it much better to add verbal brutality and critisim to the subject of our kids? Does that perhaps sit more comfortably with you? I guess you never miss an episode of Eastenders either...

As Bellbottom said, her kid only tried to blow out the candles, but she didn't. And she spoke her mind about the fact she thought her grandma was so beautiful. How sweeeet! Why can't people realise this is a small child voicing their feeling and desire and nothing more. It's not like her dd is beating people up or taunting them until they cry. She sounds like a passionate little madam and only needs some subtle guidance about feelings to send her on her way in life. I do wish you'd all just grow up and stop twisting behaviour and posts into something more sinister. It really is a reflection of your own unresolved issues.

Bellbottom - keep going this way and dd will be fine. It will just take a few months maybe and soon she will be able to think twice before she speaks. My dd has always been a little bit of a diva and needed me to tap into her sensitive side a little and coach her on emotions etc, but I just love her the way she is and she's doing fine at 6 yrs now, well liked and always something original to add to the group. It's great when kids that have a strong mind - they are the future, free thinking, bold and fun to be with. Salt of the earth, that perhaps does spark some green eyed monsters along the way unfortunately. Your dd will I'm sure continue to make you proud and you can always say - i did it all myself. Well done!

Now, for those with issues, take it elsewhere and put a sock in it, Pleeeeease!

oh yes and to add to those of you who refer to a child as a brat.......shame on you really. Your opinions are worth nothing in any decent society.

sounds like this morning was a good one.