3.5 yr old DD is a bit too intense for other parents. HELP!!

[bellbottom]

Hello,
feeling a bit down and lonely.
Without wanting to ' label' my dd as I don't like doing that, she is the kind of child that other kids love but seems to be causing concern to other parents. It's making me feel singled out and alone, which I find very hard to cope with as I am already a single mum, no dad involved, living abroad without family. So i have only myself to turn to, besides mumsnet and a few close friends.
Dd is very high energy, both mentally and physically. She is also very mature and perceptive for her age, persistent and very assertive, strong minded and tough. She is also a huge amount of fun to be with, has a huge sense of humour. All in all, larger than life.
I don't have any worries that she'll be fine in life. Only that she does seem to be a bit too overwhelming for some parents. She is a leader type of person and sometimes becomes quite mischeivious with her friends, also in their company she tends to egg them on a bit and those kids start to become less obedient to their parents. She is also going through a phase of light teasing, which in my mind is harmless and only a reflection of her looking for more of a challenge. I'm confident it will pass. It's only things like, 'I have this and you do not'. Or ' i can go faster than you' etc. Recently things have become a little tense between myself and the parents of her best friend. Up till now it was great, and now we have had to have discussions. It seems they have taken little things really personally, like dd was trying to blow out the candles of his birthday cake, she told him her grandma was prettier than his, that kind of thing, at his party. I see it as harmless and i interpret it as her trying to say that she too has a grandma that she loves very much and misses as she's in england. And with the other stuff its just that she wants to be a part of what he has and doesnt yet know what it means to let him have his moment of glory all for himself.
I'm getting scared about how she'll fit in in the future. Especially worried if she is perhaps reacting to the fact that she has no family here like other kids do. Is it a sign that she is going to strike out about this in the future even more? Or am I making too much of this?
Are there any other parents out there with intense and bright kids? I read up on spiritied kids, but I don't think she fits that description, as she never cries for long, gets over problems quickly, sleeps right through every night guranteed. I don't think she is a spirited child. But does anyone with a smiliar child have any advice they can offer?
Thanks

Minxofmancunia I too take issue with the statement highlighted by brdgrl.
There's a difference between rude and gobby behaviour and having a backbone. Most people on this thread say the op needs to keep her dd in check to make her more popular - not least with adults
I'd want my kids to be 'liked' by the world at large abd this child clearly isnt

Well, I stand by it, it was ONE WORD, said in retaliation to something he said. he had a tantrum so he could get attention from his mum which he of course received and was able to do the "woe is me" act. If children can't cope with some banter and occasional name calling without growing some resilience or dealing with it amongst themselves then goodness knows how they'll cope without their parents there to manage their every emotion in the face of adversity in the big bad world.

I've observed groups of children professionally for years and often the one who is always being "wronged" is the one who triggers the wronging fairly cleverly in the first place, and it's usually done to get attention from which ever adults are there at the time.

the OPs child is 3. At dds 3rd party there was lots of silliness including trying to blow her candles out, a fair bit at her 4th but at her 5th, hardly any. Why? Because they were older and had learned as a groups to self-manage. Also parents weren't invited so they had no need to attention seek by falling out with each other at every opportunity and accusing each other of things. They know I won't tolerate tale telling, and if they were unable to get on I'd terminate the party and send them home. aside from one little girl who consistently seems unable to cope without adult attention they all behaved beautifully.

I think it's the kind of thing that would almost pass as cute at 3.5yrs with more laid back kinds of parents but can soon turn in to spoilt brat syndrome when they get to 4/5 yrs. So just bear that in mind I think. Would you still feel the same if she was doing this x10 by the time she's 6? Do you know how horrid 6 year old girls can be to their friends?

I have found from living in different countries that different cultures have a different level of tolerance for children's manners. The UK I find has higher expectations than some other countries in terms of manners and children. (Which friends from other countries have always commented as a positive thing, btw.)
Living away from family is not nice but is not enough of a reason to let little things slip. But it is harder to reinforce good behaviour with less back-up from family.

Wow, this thread should be made compulsory reading for all those hoping to join mumsnet, if only I'd seen it when I first joined! There's a bit of everything in here! I'd never even heard of sock-puppetry. Do people really invest that much effort...??????? It has certainly opened my eyes a bit!

Crikey - If the UK has a higher expectation re manners and children - I don't want to see the kids in other Countries !

it is certainly lower than in some other countries i have lived in...but i don't think a bossy, mean, entitled child is going to get far anywhere, to be honest.

minx, i hope you are not a childminder or child therapist. or really, any one with much solo contact with other people's kids, period. i'd be sad if my kids' teacher, for instance, took the view that kids who are bulied, are usually asking for it. and and

As if I was saying that brdgrl WTF!!! Bullying is awful, no one deserves to be name called repeatedly, left out, hit, excluded, given the silent treatment, sniggered at etc. I'm talking about one off childish random silliness!!! ONE WORD said by a 4 year old when they're over excited that a swift and low key admonishment can usually rectify. If a 3 of 4 year old said "you're silly" i'd say "that's not nice please don't say that" to them and leave it at that. If a 7 or 8 year old said it I'd think it had more meaning and be more worried, even then, groups of kids can hurl insults sometimes without knowing it can be hurtful.

I think I've explained myself at length and you're massively over reacting. I've seen my dd say unkind things and I've pulled her on them. I've seen her be treated appallingly by a friends child, so badly it made my heart break and didn't say anything because it was the childs birthday party. Horrible. I've also witnessed 4 year old girls do the whole "you're not my friend" thing and find ignoring it is usually the best bet as they're invariably friends a few minutes, if not seconds later. Adult involvement usually just prolongs the agony and also gives them ++ attention for bad behaviour.

no one "asks" to be bullied but you can help kids to be more resilient, I've even heard parents of bullied kids say this!!! They don't want their dc to change school (unless it's awful then rightfully so) they want to help them with building their resilience.

And perception of being bullied varies from person to person, if friend is brisk or off hand with me as a one off i put it down to them having a bad day, being stressed etc. My sister on the other hand claims to have been bullied in almost every job she's ever worked in. She simply cannot deal with being criticised, spoken to less than gushily, fawned over by her friends and colleagues. She's accused a few of my friends of not liking her, which is bollocks, they're just not all fawny and gushy. And being so hyper sensitive to perceived interpersonal slights has done her no favours.

often the one who is always being "wronged" is the one who triggers the wronging fairly cleverly in the first place, and it's usually done to get attention from which ever adults are there at the time.
No, i don't think i am over-reacting. Your posts here show, consistently, the attitude that children who bully, tease, dominate, etc, should be understood and excused because they are just being strong kids, whereas the kids who feel hurt by these behaviours are the ones with personality issues. It's pretty horrible,

as a psychologist who has had 6 3 year olds myself and attended waaaay too many 3rd birthday parties i still see this girl as in need of discipline

If anyone needs to grow a 'backbone' I would say it's the op though

Wowza - quite an acrimonious thread. I would say to OP the best bit of advice I ever read was in a book by Dr Christopher Green which defined discipline in terms of your child being a disciple i.e a follower

Your DD may be clever/ feisty/ bright but she needs to know what is an isn't acceptable in normal society. You need to give her an example to follow and judging by some of your later posts you are doing that.

Everyone likes to think they have bright kids - mine are pretty bright on the academic levels set by school in terms of reading age etc but that doesn't necessarily make them good socially - its a different skill set.

The fact that your DD is bright means that she should have no problem understanding what you are saying to her but it doesn't mean she's going to be good at doing it.

I just want to say how astonished I am at the treatment of the OP on this thread. She has posted some genuine concerns in an honest and open plea for help and guidance. I opened this thread in the hope of reading some supportive and kind words or some useful advice and while some have provided this, many have simply taken the opportunity to judge and criticise. Bad day ladies? Need someone to take your frustrations out on? Lucky you've got mumsnet to provide you with a pool of victims to pick from.

Jesus what an unpleasant thread - calling kids brats etc. Horrible.

Your post is a lot more complex than it first appears and it seems that you are dealing with quite a lot of stuff - not least being a single parent overseas and away from family.

How sensitive of some of these posters (especially the ones that claim to be medical professionals ) to not read between the lines and empathise a bit more.

I don't know any sane person who would suggest that it was massively extreme bad behaviour to try and blow another kids' candles out FFS.
It is obviously something you need to deal with and you need to step up with the discipline. But keep some perspective - she is not a brat or any of the other hateful language used on here.
All this inflammatory nonsense about her ending up as ostracised and alone if she carries on like this. Oh FFS.

Never underestimate the power of other mothers' jealousy btw - some seem to really resent the influence your child may have over theirs. My youngest is very popular at school, has a load of friends and gets on well in class. He was recently singled out for a commendation and 24 hours later he was accused by a parent of doing something that he didn't do. Even the Head recognised that the 2 events were linked and dismissed it as bizarre schoolgate bullshit.

Don't take any of the unkindness on here to heart. Work on her behaviour together but don't browbeat her - I am sick to death of seeing poor kids bollocked relentlessly by micro-managing parents.

Esta HUGE Difference between 'browbeaten' and disciplined

brdgrl that particular phrase i haven't phrased very well I'll admit but I think some subtle wind up does go on sometimes and some children are genutinely bullied and some play victim to get attention, and some can't cope with relatively minor slights, because as another poster has said their parents encourage them to tell tales for absolutely EVERYTHING, an unattractive quality in itself.

"No, i don't think i am over-reacting. Your posts here show, consistently, the attitude that children who bully, tease, dominate, etc, should be understood and excused because they are just being strong kids, whereas the kids who feel hurt by these behaviours are the ones with personality issues. It's pretty horrible,"

When did I ever say any of those things are ok??? Honestly you're taking my posts and twisting them into extreme interpretation/language to have a go. Of course they might feel hurt esp if it's consistent, but as one offs and at the age of 3 they should not be used to brandd the child with any of those labels.

Bullying is NOT saying someone is silly ONCE. Teasing by saying "my grandma is prettier than yours" is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. A 3 year old who attempts to blow candles out is NOT an unpleasant child who'll end up with no friends, and I think it's bang bloody out of order for people on here to insinuate this.

I've explained myself several times now, so if you carry on exagerrating, and insinuating and basically telling lies I'll ignore you.

Esta3G

"I am sick to death of seeing poor kids bollocked relentlessly by micro-managing parents"

Could not have said it better myself.

Brdgrl I was teased and bullied all of every day for my hair, my accent, my "weird" parents, the fact I was clever, I had no friends I was mocked and consistently ignored, God knows I would have loved someone to be at my party to try to blow the candles out but I didn't have parties because no one spoke to me, possibly in part due to my extreme shyness and inability to socialise. I was called a f**king freak attacked on the way home from school regularly. This is a potted description of something I don't want to explain too much as it still feels grim.

Being called "silly" by a much younger child would have been the least of my worries, I probably wouldn't even have noticed it.

My early years were shit. the OPs child isn't bullying, she needs some guidance but she's 3!!

Bloody hell.
Fwiw, my DS just had his 4th day! birthday party and every child tried to blow out his candles!
all sounds like very normal behaviour, and very familiar, i have heard and seen lots of ds's friends do the same.
Op-sounds like you are doing all the right things, don't be disheartened by the responses here.

Gentle reminders about behaviour and not turning a blind of or excusing it works just fine. It won't be overnight of course but then most developmental stages aren't.