Is all smacking unacceptable?

[Bekki]

I have just started reading the thread on smacking and I was quite surprised to see that no one thought smacking was acceptable. Its very rare to see children being smacked in public but every parent that I know uses smacking as a last resort in disciplining. Is it just that people feel ashamed and fear a backlash? I'm not on about smacking through temper, but a thought out controlled smack that is explained to the child. There have been certain situations in public where a smack was the only answer for my ds as we had run out of options and it was quick, effective and calmed him immediatley. Am I the only 'smacker' on mumsnet?

I think we all have our own personal morality when it comes to being parents. Personally I had an abusive and difficult relationship with my own parents which completely affects the way I am with my own children (luckily it makes me very tolerant and loving with them). Mumsnet is interesting as you get to peek into other peoples morality for a while, it doesn't mean we have to agree.

There are people here who smack who I very much like as mumsnetters and just because I disagree strongly with smacking doesnt mean I dislike them personally. I hope that comes across, but I am sure it probably doesnt, that happens sometimes

Aloha, can I just say I thought your posts were brilliant

Absolutely - we don't have to agree...but perhaps we can agree on one thing - to accept diversity in our moral opinions and not to label/ judge those whose morality doesn't match ours....

Don't want to open up sores, but badmum is right -those who smack have been made to feel slightly sub human by some of those posts here...although the vast majority of posts, including the anti smacking ones are very balanced.

I agree with you Enid. I don't argue against the person and I am not actually saying that all parents who smack are vulgar and common. I think it is vulgar to shout and smack children in public though, and I think it is wrong to smack. I am not appointing myself as guardian of all morality, but I am sure we all have certain things that we think are just wrong,wrong,wrong.....Smacking for me is one of those things there are no excuse for.Also, I have said in previous posts (not sure on this thread though), that I am not interested in discussing good versus bad parent. I am discussing the topic of smacking without talking about the whole life of someone. I am sure, for example, that there are many children who grow up in perfectly good happy homes who are smacked regularly. Then there are children who grow up totally ignored and neglected by their parents, but never smacked. That's why I am not talking about "good" and "bad" parents, but I believe smacking is a bad tool to use in parenting. Not sure if I get the difference across. I hope I do!

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Handlemecarefully, surely if you are so sure smacking is good for your children, then you wouldn't worry about me saying it isn't ?

Fairymum,

I'm not 100% sure about anything actually - I'm more open minded than that and don't think I have all the answers....

Perhaps my open mindedness is a product of a good education and enquiring mind (tee he he!)

Twinkie,

they turn into bloody bitchy squabbles because people make quite barbed comments and upset others...who then retailiate in kind

I've read lots of things on Mumsnet that I don't agree with and there are things that people have done that I would never consider doing. I haven't insulted them though and I'm not about to start now.

I'm very careful to make sure that I don't upset anybody with my posts, I find it amazing that all you perfect non smacking parents, can be so thoughtless with your comments. It's obviously only other adults you have a go at, you'd never be nasty to your children.

I think if you want people to stop smacking then constructive advice would be more helpful than running them down. I feel crap enough thanks very much.

There has been loads of great advice on here and lots of you have been really supportive, especially Aloha. Thank you.

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I must admit Twinkie why you wonder that these threads become bitchy after a post which labels pple who smack as "misguided" Of course you are entitled to your view of it as wrong and disgusting and thats fine, but you can't label a whole set of pple as misguided for one action in their lives. I might be many things, but I don't think I am misguided. Thats when pple get upset. I don't think anyone is gunning for the moral high ground, but I do think there are too many generalisations like this which upset pple.

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Badmum

Hear, hear.

I've only been mumsnetting for a few weeks, but like you I do try and choose my words carefully so as not to cause offence to others. If I've let rip a bit here, then it is merely a reaction to what others have said. I don't go for the pre-emptive strike if that makes sense (i.e. I try to be considerate of others, but I will react if I, or aspects of my parenting, are criticised in a personal or blunt way by a post...its then a question of gloves off!)

Twinkie,

Whilst I can see your point about being frustrated about not feeling that you can say what you want - be my guest - say what you want. But if people are offended by a post then surely they have a right to say so.

Twinkie,

There you go again - suggesting that me and perhaps someone else are not 'grown up'.

Say what the heck you want - but as you are apparently a champion of free speech, allow me that courtesy too.

Alternatively why not try putting your same points across about not smacking in a way that is less emotive and potentially insulting to others? We then wouldn't have to waste energy on this side debate

Handlemecarefully, I am also open-minded about most things most of the time. Smacking, though, is one of those issues where I don't believe in sitting on the fence or debating pros and cons.

Badmum1, I think you have had lots of advise (including from myself on your previous thread). I clearly remember telling you in one of my posts not to use the nick "Badmum". Wasn't that you or are there many badmums here? I am not a perfect mum. I don't think you have to be perfect not to smack your children. I have already said that what I said about smackers being vulgar etc were clumsily put. I shouldn't have written it because they were my private thoughts (and I apologise to anyone I offended), but I was trying to explain my thoughts and feelings when witnessing children being shouted at and smacked in public. I don't understant that they are not ashamed to do it on display like that. Again, I am talking about smacking as a tool in parenting and not about the parent being good or bad.

I think of you are far too sensitive about some of the comments on here. Just makes me think about how sensitive little children are too and that's precisely a good reason not to smack. I get a bit emotional about this issue and yes, I do get a bit angry too, because I think about my own children. I can't think of anyting they would or could possibly do which would make me smack their cute little bottoms orcheeky faces. It really breaks my heart and I think this is smacking threads get a bit heated sometimes.

By the way, your name is quite fitting Handlemecarefully (pls don't take it as insult. Is meant light hearted)

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Fairymum

I'm not offended - my name is deliberately appropriate. I am sensitive and don't take criticism well....but then, don't really feel that I should need to IYKWIM!

Twinkie,

time for me to be conciliatory - sorry you feel you have to bow out of this thread. No hard feelings I hope.

Hang on, it's ok for twinkie to think that people who smack are misguided, in the same way that it's ok for me to think people who vote tory are misguided. It's not the same as saying that someone is a bad person or useless parent. There's a whole lot more to raising kids than discipline and behaviour.

I can only reiterate what others have said, it's not necessarily the parents doing the smacking that make me uncomfortable; it is the act of smacking that makes me unhappy. There are many alternatives to smacking but they sometimes require more time and effort than a smack. Perhaps because i do voluntary work with other people's kids who have quite severe behavioural problems I am more used to having to avoid physical punishment. There are several comments that pro-smackers have made that have troubled me- that it's just as valid to smack when kids are annoying as when they are doing something harmful/dangerous.
It disturbs me that Handlemecarefully smacked her 14 month old. She makes no mention of trying other techniques to stop her child slapping (which after all is one of those fantastic phases!), HMC if you did try other techniques I'd be interested to know which ones and how long you gave them to work. Like enid I find the idea of cuddling a child after you've smacked them unsettling.

I'm not a perfect mother, I admit that I have (for now) a very easy child who spoke early making things easier to explain. But, I also have a filthy temper and zero patience. To repeat Aloha's wisdom (again) I don't feel the need to control my child or expect her to acquiesce to my wishes. I think that makes everything easier.

Badmum, please don't think people are attacking you. you have admitted that you are not happy with the way you respond/react to your kids. there are organisations to help as peole have said before.

Finally, I realise that my posts on this topic may sound judgemental and self-satisfied. Unfortunately i don't express myself very well on these boards I am probably a lot more forthright on here than in real life (and certainly more forthright than when working with parents and kids!) but I think it's interesting to have an honest exchange sometimes which generally isn't possible in real life, because we like our friends.

Whoops, that last sentence was clumsy. Trying to say that our real life friendships are multi-dimensional and we (or at least me) are less likely to bear grudges against someone in cyberspace.

Marialuisa, imagine a tory who also smacks their child? How misguided is that?

Sorry, only joking. Time to go and lock my kids in the basement....See you all later

I suppose that the only kind of smacking I see is the nasty, scary stuff that happens in the street so that makes a big impression on me. I do know that most mothers who smack don't do this and love their kids every bit as much as I or anyone else does. However, I also feel opposed to smacking in quite a deep way and I think it is hard to say this without it sounding like an attack on other mothers as people. I think many people who don't like smacking do feel emotional about it - often for very personal reasons (I know I do) - and that can come across as judgemental or insulting to others in a personal way.
I do think not all mothers who smack feel comfortable with it, or want to carry on doing sodo so, and in that situation I think it is good to find other ways of changing your child's unacceptable behaviour. The book I recommended - The Social Toddler - is, I think, a great book for anyone looking at practical ways of living more harmoniously with very young children and I'm so pleased you got something out of it Fairymum. I recommend it to anyone. It's not at all preachy or judgmental, it features real mothers and toddlers (not all of whom are angels) and just offers ideas that can be useful esp for people who would prefer some effective alternatives to smacking.

LOL Fairymum!

Marialuisa,

I tried saying 'No' and accompanying this by the appropriate facial expressions (i.e. disapproval) - did this for about a week. As I said, she thought this was a game and is perhaps too young to read facial expressions and non verbal clues.

Then I tried putting dd down on the floor (i.e. withdrawing the affectionate embrace that we had previously been involved in before she decided to hit and scratch) - she cried and looked put out, but would still repeat her behaviour with no evidence of having learnt from this. Tried this for about another week...

I think for a small child with limited understanding - when I gently tapped her back in the face, the penny suddenly dropped. She can't have experienced pain from this (I didn't whop her one obviously - and never could), but she obviously gained some insight from this. I don't know how or why - its conjecture ; perhaps it feel like a personal space invasion (I'm waffling now. Who knows what goes on in a 14 months' head

Can I turn it around and ask you, in all sincerity, what else you might have suggested?

I think my point was - of course its okay for anyone to disagree with smacking, most do. I'll admit I'm not comfortable with my own behaviour re this and some other issues, but I don't think disagreeing with someone allows you to label them as misguided or worse, vulgar or common. Just because they don't have your philosophy doesn't make them any of those things.

I agree that there is nothing worse than seeing kids shouted at and tugged in public. Anyone would feel sickened. But I bet its not a patch on what sometimes goes on behind closed doors & at least Badmum had the concern to flag up her behaviour and I don't think chucking generalisations help. Thats always when the trouble starts.

To be honest, I think we must all be pretty concerned parents to even be discussing this. I think if we weren't so concerned, we would do it without question. I've really worked at not hitting my 2 and it kills me when I do, but for that split, split second I might loose control. I don't know if that makes me 'bad' - maybe, misguided, no.