I give up, i really do. (long sorry)

[tamba]

I am so upset and you will probably all think it is a really trivial reason but its the build up of it happening every morning for the past month and i just give up now cause whatever i do it doesnt work.

We struggled to buy this house and spent hundreds of pounds decorating it as it was a mess when we bought it.

We repapered all the rooms and had new carpets put down etc, but now i wish i hadnt bothered.

We did the boys room in bob the builder paper, with a border and stickers... the first night they slept in there, they ripped the boarder off, found a crayon in the toy box and scribbled on the walls and ripped some of the paper from the walls.

They also found a crayon and coloured on the new sofas and walls in the living room (where they keep getting the crayons from i dont know!!)

The upstairs hall was a lemom colour - it is now covered in crayon and i cant get it off.

The main problem is the bathroom though, this is what has really got to me. Ds1 would go into the bathroom before waking us up, he turns on the taps, shreds the toilet roll, smears toothpaste and sudo cream everywhere, ds2 plays in the toilet and gets totally wet.. so we got stairgates, one on the bathroom door and one on the bedroom (to stop him sneaking down stairs and trashing the kitchen - eggs in the washing machine etc) but he climbs over them. Every morning they are wet and the bathroom is a state.

This morning he got in the bathroom bin - i had been on my period all week so there were used sanitary towels in there - they were playing with them, it was so discusting, they were even down the toilet, in the boys bedroom, and i still think there are some missing, they shredded the toilet roll and there are lumps of wet tissue everywhere.

Hes 3.5 so not a baby (ds2 is 20 months and is dragged over the stairgates to help trash the bathroom) What more can i do to keep him out the bathroom? I seriously give up - what is the point of trying to give them a nice home, so much money wasted, the house looks worse than it did before we moved in.

Theres a pile of stuff for me to sort out in the bathroom now and i cant be bothered, i just want to cry.

Sorry this is long.

Absolutely. He needs to be reined in. It might be fun to do it, but this wanton destruction must stir him up in ways that are not entirely healthy for him. I don't think you are harsh in the slightest.

you can'tpossibly use father xmas as a punishment becuase your seriously not going to follow through and not give your kids owt on xmas day.

i would sit in the room - whatever room with a book and sty with them til they cleaned it up. giving occasional direction.

i would also help miself out in that iwouldnt leave squidgy stuff in the bathroom - it would go in a bathroom bag and stay in my bedroom

if i was at end of my tether - and also for safety reasons, i would put lock on kitchen door. - or any other door before the kitchen.

crayons on the wall never bothered me - theres more to life in my house than having it looking nice for other people.

however, i never bought, crayons or plasticine or play doh to be smeared or rubbed into anything.

still they managed to get hold of some drawing impliment. and draw on bedroom walls.

i chastised them for mispelling their name rather than the deed itself.

this also works when they later wrote swear words on the wall. i said " if your going to do it - at least spell it properly - its b.u.g.g.e.rnow do it again only right!" kinda takes the fun out of it

Thank you for all your advice.

Just got back from the natvity and have told ds1 that after he has eaten he is coming upstairs with a carier bag and will be cleaning the hall. He will stay there until he is finished - no way am i doing it all when he made the mess! He seemed quite pleased about it though although that will all change when he gets bored and realises its not a game.

As soon as the toothpaste and shampoo mess is cleared from the clear boxes he will be packing his toys into it and they are going into my bedroom to be kept out of the way until i decide to give them back.

What is the pasta Jar?

Thanks for the tip about getting crayon off walls! I will do the living room and upstairs hall but there bedroom can stay like it.

No christmas tree is going up until i think hes got the message.

If he behaves this week (with out trashing the place, i know he wont have perfect behaviour) then he can go to his christmas party at nursery next week. If not i will keep him home. Hes really looking forward to it so i think the threat of not going will be enough to make him want to behave.

I know im going to have tantrums for the next few days but i feel like a house elf with all the mess i have to keep cleaning up and i wont do it anymore.

Thanks all xx

If you get upset and cry your elder ds might actually enjoy the drama and especially the making up afterwards.

But he is old enough to understand consequence. Deny him whatever he enjoys most and explain why you are doing it. Then the following day I would set your alarm early to pre-empt his sortie to the bathroom. If you catch him heading that way, send him back to bed with notice of another impending punishment. And follow through. Don't shout or cry, it's negative attention. When he's stopped doing it for a few days why don't you surprise him with a special trip to soft play or something and explain that it's because he's been so good?

Just some ideas. Good luck x mine is only 2 so I have all this to look forward to!

I'd make him clear it up by himself as much as you can. If you join in he might see it as good fun with mum, and want to do it again!

You've had some really good advice on how to deal with this tamba, I just want to add/reiterate a couple of things.

From what you say I think the behaviour is a combination of boredom and attention-seeking (children will often seek negative attention - telling off - if they aren't getting positive attention, ie being played with). This behaviour generally takes place in the early morning when he is not getting any attention from you. If you change the situation so that he is not awake, unsupervised, at this time of day you will head off this problem before it starts.

Zippi suggested putting an alarm on their door - I think this is a fab idea! If you can rig it up in such a way that it sounds in your bedroom (therefore waking you up) but can't be heard by them, it gives you the opportunity to get up with them and supervise their playing. Yes, it may mean you are up at 5am each day for a while (I suggest you and dh take it in turns!), but it will show them that there are alternatives to what they are currently doing.

Me and ds1 just had a convo that went something like this..

me " you are going upstairs to clean up the mess now"

him "awe dont want to mommy, you do it"

me "well who made the mess?"

him "michael did it..."

me "and?"

him "....me...."

me "so who should clear it up?"

him

We are going to get started on it now - wish me luck! I dont care how long it takes - we have all day! (and weekend!)

Pasta Jar: One small empty glass jar. One packet of not too small pasta.

Every morning you get up to find kids playing nicely and bathroom untouched, or even kids asleep and bathroom untouched, they get to put one piece of pasta each in the jar. When the jar is full they get to do something cool (decided beforehand - cinema/soft play/ baking with you - rather than a present). Normally it is never used as punishment - ie never take pasta out, just don't add if not good, but in this case, as they need something v visual to grab their attention, I would actually take out pasta if they are not well behaved - and also because the trashing is a little, um, extreme.

I also agree with whoever said to beware of the zing that someone said they must be getting with this wanton vandalism (for want of better word). You need to stop it now.

Good luck Tamba - and I'm pleased that DH is supporting you 100% - there has to be a united front.
I agree with Custy - don't use Father Xmas - it's too distant, and you won't carry it through...use an immediate and day-to-day system. And don't shout - just calmly but very firmly implement the system.
If you can watch Supernanny on cable I think you would get a lot out of it.

I haven't read the whole thread, but...

we have a lock on the outside at the top of our bathroom door. If ds (4) or dd (2) trash anything in the house (like throwing clothes etc), then we make them help clear them up, possibly after shutting them in their bedroom for 3-4 minutes. Sounds like you really need a clamp down though - it does sound like out of control behaviour. Can you remove everything from their height (not just crayons, toys as well) and gradually reintroduce them as they become more responsible?

Another supernanny fan here. Her methods are brilliant, and they work. It all sounds very stressful and upsetting for you tamba, I hope you are able to sort it out. My advice is no matter what, stick together with your dh and back each other up, and also, though its supremely hard I know, try not to shout at them! Everything you do will be so much more effective if you are calm and firm.

I would still go with them not being able to get out of the bedroom without you being awake

but obviously they mustn't be aware of how to bypass that

tbh if i was you I would be getting up myself early and just prevent them even thinking about it
at this time of year it's dark so make sure they can't switch any ,lights on early

and iof it's any consolation it's probably not as bad as a daughter coming in and throwing up while telling you they love you and trying to get into bed for a cuddle..er yes dd1 that will make me, you and dp..I don't think so

The landing and bathroom are now clean and tidy - we still have the bedroom which we will do tomorrow.

He started off enjoying himself but quickly realised that tidying up bits of tissue wasnt much fun - he sulked, moaned, called for dad (who told him to get on with the tidying) and then said in a little voice 'im sorry i made a mess mommy'

He asked to go to the toilet earlier but i told him he was banned from the bathroom and would have to use his potty. He wasnt happy about that and we agreed that he could use the bathroom and mommy would be checking for mess afterwards.

We couldnt get the crayon off the wall (theres loads of it and its really dark) so will have to re-paint it after christmas, although the boys will have ruined wall paper for years now cause we're not replacing it until i know it wont get ruined.

Thanks for all your advice, unfortunatly we only have freeview so cant get the channels that supernanny is on but I will be trying the pasta Jar.

Fingers crossed for a tidier morning tomorrow!

I can't really add much to what everyone else has said but I feel so bad for you. The photos are unbelievable, I would actually have put DD up for adoption for that & I'm no idle threater! My new word is unacceptable as DD has just turned 4 & I feel old enough to understand properly what I mean when I say it rather than going through the toys in the box rigmarole. I've done star charts & naughty step etc & for the most part she's a very good girl, I always try to remain calm but I would have flipped my lid over that mess. Hope you get a better reception tomorrow morning & I'd seriously think about no tree even if it means you missing out which normally I try not to do, punishments should only affect the child if possible. His party sounds like a good idea if he's really looking forward to it. This is DD's consequence at the moment & it's really effective.
Good luck!

Message withdrawn

How is it looking this morning Tamba?

This morning the bathroom was spotless....

but...

there was a big pile of poo in the hall!!!

He said when asked about it "I was a good boy mommy, i didnt go in the bathroom"

and he had shut himself and Michael into the bedroom so he couldnt play in the poo.

He didnt have his potty upstairs as we had got used to him going in the bathroom and also if he uses the potty ds2 tends to start playing with the contents ewwwww

He does wear a nappy for bed but wont poo in it (I can understand that)

So i guess thats a step forward???

Oh well done .... I think I'd rather clean up a pile of poo than the previous mess!

Really feel for what your going through, I went through exactly the same with our dd1. Just remember your not alone in this and although it doesn't seem like it things will get better.

Have you thought that maybe the reason he is doing it is for attention, this was my dd1's reason even though she got 'bad' attention. What eventually worked for me was to take away that attention.

The only punishment I found worked was ignoring combined with time outs. At the same time when dd1 was behaving how I wanted her to I went over the top with praise, hugs, kisses ect.

This is going to be really, really hard but you must avoid the power struggles and be calm when dealing with your ds. It may help to deal with him after you've taken a little time first to calm down when you find the mess. Tell him that you don't like the bahaviour, that because he's made a mess he has to take a time out (3 mins) and afterwards must help tidy up the mess. If he kicks up a fuss ignore him completely, don't speak to him, shun physical contact, avoid eye contact - I used to have to turn my back on dd1 and pull away when she grabbed at me. Most important thing is to be consistant, if your not then it wont work.

The other thing is to make a major fuss when he's a good boy. Go over the top with praise, hugs, smiles and tell him your really pleased - tell him why your pleased as he wont know what he's done right if you just say 'good boy'.

Baby wipes work wonders on removing crayon from wallpaper and other things. If you need to redecorate just use lining paper and white/cream paint for the time being - remember it's cheap and only tempory.

I'll post again later on as this is already pretty long and I have to go make dd2 some lunch.

Could you not put a potty out in the hall for ds1 for tomorrow morning, so you don't haveto wake up to a pile of poo in the hallway floor???

I am impressed by all your strategies.

I am afraid I would have smacked any of mine had I been presented with the mess in the photos.

Will crawl away now........

Tamba at least poo isn't a deliberate act of vandalism & he made an effort to keep it in one place etc. I used to find DD washing her own pants in the sink if she'd made a mess accidentally, although there's another thread re her deliberate pooing.
Maybe you've turned a corner & if you're consistent you'll keep heading in the right direction, I just watched Supernanny earlier & the mother in it was her own worst enemy I'd have ranted at her before the little terror of a son she had if I'd been SN.
Long may it continue

Tamba, just catching up with your thread and think you're doing GREAT. Hats off to you. xx

wooohoooo clean bathroom again this morning

There were a few toys in the hall but that is fine as they were playing a game and not being disruptive

He has his little people castle to play with now, and because he only has on main toy out he is sat playing with it nicely, and making the people do things - its lovely to see!

Thanks for all your advice, i think we are getting somewhere!