I give up, i really do. (long sorry)

[tamba]

I am so upset and you will probably all think it is a really trivial reason but its the build up of it happening every morning for the past month and i just give up now cause whatever i do it doesnt work.

We struggled to buy this house and spent hundreds of pounds decorating it as it was a mess when we bought it.

We repapered all the rooms and had new carpets put down etc, but now i wish i hadnt bothered.

We did the boys room in bob the builder paper, with a border and stickers... the first night they slept in there, they ripped the boarder off, found a crayon in the toy box and scribbled on the walls and ripped some of the paper from the walls.

They also found a crayon and coloured on the new sofas and walls in the living room (where they keep getting the crayons from i dont know!!)

The upstairs hall was a lemom colour - it is now covered in crayon and i cant get it off.

The main problem is the bathroom though, this is what has really got to me. Ds1 would go into the bathroom before waking us up, he turns on the taps, shreds the toilet roll, smears toothpaste and sudo cream everywhere, ds2 plays in the toilet and gets totally wet.. so we got stairgates, one on the bathroom door and one on the bedroom (to stop him sneaking down stairs and trashing the kitchen - eggs in the washing machine etc) but he climbs over them. Every morning they are wet and the bathroom is a state.

This morning he got in the bathroom bin - i had been on my period all week so there were used sanitary towels in there - they were playing with them, it was so discusting, they were even down the toilet, in the boys bedroom, and i still think there are some missing, they shredded the toilet roll and there are lumps of wet tissue everywhere.

Hes 3.5 so not a baby (ds2 is 20 months and is dragged over the stairgates to help trash the bathroom) What more can i do to keep him out the bathroom? I seriously give up - what is the point of trying to give them a nice home, so much money wasted, the house looks worse than it did before we moved in.

Theres a pile of stuff for me to sort out in the bathroom now and i cant be bothered, i just want to cry.

Sorry this is long.

Tell ds that's what he's getting for Christmas

Your local health service might run clinics to help out with behavioural/sleep problems that are free. Ask your gp or health visitor. I was referred to one when ds had sleeping problems and they were very good and sypmathetic.

I am trying to put off asking for help anywhere other than here as i dont like to admit that ive failed

How dumb is that!!!

Just a wee thought. My Ds1 used to waken every morning between 4 and 5. It started because he had woekn one night and we had been out and the babysitter was there, the HV thought he was waking early because he wanted to check we were still there. I still get it now, hubbyd off to the Falklands in Feb and whenever he goes away Ds1 is awake at 4. Have you gone out and he has woken up to a babysitter, or a grandparent and got a wee shock. We bought him a clock and set the alarm to a reasonable time (like 7am) and he was told that he could get out of bed then. We also stopped bedtime drinks as he was always going to the loo very early.

Last week he stayed at his nans for the first time and she took him to the pantimine, little red riding hood.. he got very scared of the wolf!

Maybe that has something to do with it? He was definatly sleeping better before then (although still getting in the bathroom)

You haven't failed at all - can't believe you've dealt so calmly with it all so far. There's no shame in getting help with sleep issues either, the more sleep we get the better parents we are, I think.
I know it's alot of money but the crucial thing about the sleep lady is the amount of support she offers afterwards - I was ringing her twice a week and it was like having a non-judgemental best mate/mum/older sister on call.

£25 to absolutely ensure he can't do this again seems like a bargain to me! Personally, I'd take some of his Christmas presents back to the shop and use the money to buy the alarm. I'm not joking btw.
Or/as well, ask for it as a Christmas present. It would give him teh shock of his life too, which might be quite salutory for him.

Tamba - a few thoughts

I don't think he is doing this to be naughty, but for some other reason. The move of house might be a clue, perhaps he found that unsettling.

You are probably getting harder and harder on him the more he does this kind of stuff (understandably) but this will be leading him to feel less loved and less wanted and possibly depressed himself.

Does the milkshake or any of the other high sugar stuff have sorbital in it (or aspartime) it has a really laxitive effect! It is not impossibly that slight bowel incontinence is waking him up in the early hours and now he can;t make it to the loo he jsut does it where he can. Perhaps the smearing was his attempt to clean it up? He might be soiling because he is afraid and nervous of being on his own in the middle of the night. Has he been told off in the past for waking you up in the night?

He does seem to change his behaviour quite rapidly - not going into the loo when told not to, and so therefore seems keen to try and please you - he just doesn;t always get it quite right!

As you have said, he is getting far too much sugar! If you increase the amount of fibre he is getting (lots of veggies) it may take less time for food to pass though his digestive system and therefore he might poo later!

Now I know you are at the end of your tether over all this, but I think your punishment today is much too harsh for a child of 4! Sorry - but I don't think keeping him in his room all morning, no toys, no milk - even murderers get better treatment than that!

Personally, if it were me, I would strip there rooms down so there was nothing in there other than clothes and bed stuff. I would get rid of all the stairgates (other than at top of stairs maybe), what is the point of them if they can get over them and maybe by making an area out of bouds it is fuelling the fire, if it is access all areas then there is nothing much to rebel against. All the toiletries/creams i'd have in my room, i'd also strip the bathroom down so the only things in there are a handsoap and nothing they can squirt or squish. Then i'd be sitting both kids down and telling them what was what and starting a star chart, positive reinforcement strategy as well as coming down hard on them for destructive behaviour.

Do you encourage the kids to clear up the mess they make?

We just put bolts at the top of all the doors we didn't want DS1 to go through. Only cost a few pence and there was simply no other way. Kitchen was barricaded and the living room (stairs came into dining room which was in the middle iyswim). Bathroom obv an issue because kids need to access it, a problem we're having with DS3 who is obsessed with plugging the sink and running taps.

Soapbox, did you see the photos that tamba posted? I really don't think any of this is accidental. And I don't think comparing his treatment to that of a murderer is realistic. He's in his own warm, comfortable bedroom for a few hours. And he has behaved APPALLINGLY. Sometimes, as tonight's House of Tiny Tearaways shows, children need parents to really strongly enforce boundaries.

Aloha - yes I did. The point I was trying to make is that this extreme behaviour is unlikely to be plain old naughtyness, but appears (to me at least) to be disturbed behaviour!

Perhaps because it is so extreme.

If I am right (and I am prepared to accept I am not, then overly penal responses will just excacerbate the problem. I think Tamba needs to concentrate on creating the warm and secure environment that you alluded to. At the moment, for whatever reason, I don;t think her DS thinks that he has that!

Well, actually yes, I do think he might be unhappy, but I also think that all this stuff he's doing will just make him more unhappy. I think house moves can be traumatic for children, but this also might be a truly terrible habit for him, attention seeking stuff. I think prevention would be great, plus lots of positive reinforcement for acceptable behaviour, but she has to get this stopped pronto, it's simply not fair on anyone as it is.

Having read this whole thread I am afraid to say should my ds do any of this when he's older and it be so near to Christmas then he'd learn that Santa really doesn't visit naughty boys .....

Thank you for all your comments.

This morning he went for a poo on his potty and then put the potty underneath the cot so that his brother couldnt find it - bless him. He was so pleased when he came and told me and dh. He had lots of hugs and 'good boys' etc. There was no mess and I am pleased with his behaviour.

Reading through some of your comments - I think that he may be scared of waking up in the night, He is frightened of a wolf. But I dont think he has any issues with poo. He seems to go to the toilet fine but has had some loose poo's recently, maybe he has had a bug that has made it more of an issue? (a couple of weeks ago he didnt manage to get to the toilet on time and covered our cream carpet in poo, he was upset about that although he wasnt told off for it - relevent?)

Although saying that - it has only been the last couple of days that poo has entered the equation, before it was just trashing the bathroom and landing - which hasnt happened since. (Hes stopped trashing and starting pooing instead!)

As for the punishment being to harsh - In some ways I agree that you shouldnt lave a 3 yr old up in his room all morning but he had to know his behaviour wasnt accetable - He was warm and safe and in a familiar environment. And besides that, I was so mad id have really smacked him if he was around me. Im not proud to say it but its true - although i wasnt that angry for long, I did calm down after the inital shouting.

I dont think he was trying to clean up the poo - it had squiggles drawen in it. He was using it as paint!

Im glad today has been a better morning. He is at nursery atm and we are going to get the boys christmas presents. It would have been hard buying them ysterday as i wasnt in the right mood to be buying him treats but I am today.

Oh, fantastic! Sounds like there is definite progress and he's really enjoying your praise and approval, which is so important.
Are you giving him a sticker or other reward for each clean and tidy morning?

Hope it lasts and you have a happy, clean, tidy Christmas! (within reason )

He got to open his advent calender as he was a good boy (he hasnt had it on naughty days)

Whilst I am out shopping i will be getting a sticker chart and there will be a big smily sticker waiting for him tonight.

Tamba - that's fab, I hope things continue well and you have a great Christmas

WEll done tamba - v pleased to hear that he is trying so hard.

I think the sticker chart for the morning is a good idea.

I also think that if you instigate one consistent system - star chart / toys put in box, for e.g - which he and you know about in advance, then it gives you a structure to help avoid the welling up of murderous tendencies!! i.e it's as much a system for you as it is for him! Then, you can implement the consequence, firmly, and then get on with giving him lots fo positive fedback, input and security for the rest of the day.

I think that general 'your in my bad books' atmospheres of punishment and deprivation ae too much for little ones. Take the toy away (or whatever) and then carry on as normal, But it does sound as if a lot of sugar is going in, and plain milk might well help. I think sugar has a fairly laxative effect - but I don't know if that is scientific!

Anyway, good for you!

Just my opinion, but I think you are far from harsh...I think you are an excellent mum and it sounds as though you are doing everything right!! And it's working!! I agree your DS sounds as though he has been feeling a bit wobbly re the house move, and the wolf etc, but it's actually fairly healthy that he is able to "externalise" his feelings although he has done it in a very extreme way. From his point of view at least he isn't bottling it up and having terrible nightmares, or crying all the time - but I would be heartbroken to wake up to see my home in that state after working so hard. I think you've handled him brilliantly, just brilliantly - I would have gone totally to pieces if mine had created that mess. We moved house this week, our boys are 3 and 1, and it is NO JOKE redecorating a derelict house just before Christmas with two toddlers!!! I have a three year old boy and have been chewing my own feet off about behaviour much less distressing than this. It's not just the fact that you're living with horrible shocking behaviour and don't know what you're going to find next, it's the worry about why they're doing it and what you've done wrong... it's hard!!! I am full of admiration for the way you have handled him. I think coming down hard on unacceptable behaviour makes children more secure, not less!!! and you deserve a break and a great Christmas now!!

Really hope you've turned a corner with him.

Well done you and dh.

your messages saying im a good mom have made me cry

Thank you!

I think you've done so well & really deserve a great Christmas, hope you get everything you wish for including a nice clean house on the morning of the 25th! Maybe Santa will bring you one
I'd have smacked his backside off if he'd been mine I'm afraid, after I'd washed it of course.
Keep it up & you'll have an angel by New Year (hopefully)

Tamba - well done and just wanted to add if you havent already got a sticker chart then they do a good one in the early learning for £6 its magnetic and i have bought one for my dd