support thread for women who have chosen to terminate IV

[bezzyk]

Hello ladies old and new.

Here's hoping this thread brings better luck and much happiness.

Lots of love

BK xx

Oh Peanuthead. You're really suffering at the moment aren'y you? I'm so sorry you are.

Honestly, I don't know. AYBU? No. You can feel however you like at times like these. Of course it is really hard for you that she is pregnant.

WsheBU? Well, lots of ways at looking at this.
She didn't think - yes she was being unreasonable.
She did think, and thought she would send the text as didn't want to invade your space, feel like gloating, put you on the spot, give you chance to react and take time to reply - then she wasn't, but understandably it still feelis like crap to you
She did think, and couldn't do the call. Couldn't 'face' you - then she was being unreasonable. We have to step up and be brave for others in their pain.
She did think - and is so pregnant, excitied and happy that she figured the whole world would feel the same. That is possible and I don't know if that is unreasonable or not.

I think whatever was behind her actions, you have ever place to feel crap. What you do about it, if anything, depends on her motives.

I hope this makes sense!?? Am typing whilst dd2 goes beserk.

Peanuthead - I agree with tree that your friend might or might not have been unreasonable, but either way you should let yourself be as angry/sad/upset as you need. This is not the only thing going on in your life so its not surprising your reaction is strong. I think texting might have been easier on you (or at least in her mind), rather than telling you face to face and forcing you to sit there and pretend it doesn't hurt. I think (from personal experience) it might have been harder to hear in person - but maybe that's just me. When you saw her the day before, she might have been terrified about the scan, given all she knows you have been through, so might have wanted to keep it to herself until there was more definite news. But I definitely agree with you that a more sensitive text should have been constructed - some of the details sound unneccessarily insensitive to me.

However unreasonable you decide she was, the question you need to ask yourself is how you ultimately want this resolved. It sounds as though you two have been close, and so if you think you want to continue to be close when the urgency of this passes, then bear that in mind in your reaction to her. Whether or not one or both of you are being unreasonable, I'd think it would be worth explaining to her some time that you found that difficult to take. But if she's a friend you want to keep then maybe take out the anger here with us and speak to her when you're less raw?

You've been through so much, and so recently. Go easy on yourself at least.

oh Peanut, I'm worried about you really. Not because of your AIBU, but because you just sound so sad. How long have you been feeling like this, for the whole 3 months? It's not long since the trauma, but it is a long time to feel sad and angry and alone.

You know we are hear and you can rant and say anything you need to vent. In my case when I am sad I am nearly always angry, I pour out vitriol on dh. I nearly alwasy feel better, but have seen the colour drain from his face a few times.
It has to come out though, the pain has to come out. It is too heavy to just cary about in a big bloody bag. I don't know how your pain will flow, but I know that the thread can hear it when you are ready and if you want to.

So I guess I'm saying that the thread is here to hear all those things, the details and the unpleasantness and the complaints and the woes and the fears and the things that don't sit comfortably.

How you all don't come here everyday and stamp your feet that it isn't fair that every other bugger can have babies I Do Not Know. I know it wouldn't help, and I know it is no one's fault, but still. I think I'd feel like that to be honest. But then envy is my character flaw so maybe that is me all over.

Peanut, FWIW, I think she was being pretty thoughtless. I was pregnant the first time around (the easy time) when people around me had had miscarriages and late miscarriages and I was careful not to go into baby details with them, specially scans. I think it's insensitive not to. Having said that, your friend has clearly been through the mill too if she's had IVF and getting to the 12 week mark and having a good scan probably feels fantastic to her, and maybe unbelievable, and she can't help herself from rejoicing. As you would at that stage yourself.

In terms of what you do about it - it depends on your relationship. I think it's okay to say you're really happy for her but finding it hard to hear about the details because of where you are now. She will understand, and you will get back to where you were, somehow.

For some reason, losing babies seems to make us all jealous of pregnant women. It's almost impossible not to be.

About the due date though - if it's any consolation at all, I've been through two due dates now, one per termination, and the anticipation is way worse than the reality...

That has been bourne outby a few now hasn't it can't? The run up to due date is nearly always worse than the day.

So in some respects peanut you are in some ways in the worst bit of it now. Stormy seas.

Hello can't! x

Peanut i agree with can't that your friend was thoughtless, i went through something similar thing with someone very close to me and more than anything i just felt so disappointed that she hadn't taken the time to think things through - that she obviously wasn't as good a friend as i had thought.

Once the initial sadness and disappointed had lifted though i did start to see things from her point of view too - that she was just so excited and wanted her moment in the sun, i couldn't deny her that even if the way she went about it was wrong.

It's been swept under the carpet now but i think there will always be a little something lost. I often wonder if i should raise it, because perhaps from her point of view she feels a bit hard done by too. I guess it's just too hard to understand the other persons perspective without having walked in their shoes.

I think you are totally justified to feel how you are feeling though, it sucks to be let down. Things like this are a real test of friendships and i hope you can work it out. Take care xxx

Hi everyone x

Sending much love to Justa and your family. Hope you're all bearing up okay.

Peanut - I also think your friend was slightly thoughtless but agree with Little Poot when she says maybe she thought texting would be the easier option on you. What she should have done, of course, is send you a text that was specific to you and which bore in mind your circumstances, rather than copying you into the text to all.

I'm one of those people that hates confrontation but think I would probably mention it to her - not in an angry way, but probably in a, "I'm glad that your scan went well but I can't deny that I sometimes find it difficult after everything I've been through" way... If she were a true friend (which I'm sure she is), she will understand.

Talking of due dates, the first baby I lost should be due on Tuesday. It's literally all I can think about and am dreading the day itself - which is hard as Tuesday is also DH's birthday. It's going to be a strange one all round, I think.

xx

Hi all - been away in sunny Dundee.

Lots going on here.

Peanut - it's not quite the same, but I remember when I was pregnant with DS I dreaded telling one of my close friends who I'd just learned was on IVF. I felt so bad that for me it had worked and I had become pregnant; but equally I didn't want her to hear the news from someone else. So I made the call; and sadly I have felt that our friendship hasn't been as close since, although it could be because we live in different cities. However I do think your friend should have been more sensitive and spoken to you personally about the scan (I realise you already knew she was pregnant). Your reaction is not unreasonable, it is YOUR reaction and to deny it or suppress how you feel would not be good; it is understandable with all that happened with your own lost baby. I think LittlePoot and Tree had good suggestions about airing your anger and grief and rage, whether on here or elsewhere, to release it; and also when you are able, to take a deep breath and speak to your friend about how her text affected you - if you think this sounds appropriate. I would rather have known how my friend felt, than this feeling that something has drifted with our friendship that was perhaps down to what was, or wasn't said at that time.

Viv - will be thinking of you on Tuesday; I hope the day is a gentle one.

Justa - I know you've started another thread but I didn't feel it quite appropriate to write this on there. What you felt after your father died, I felt that when I learned Iola had gone. Not straight away, of course I cried then, but later on when I came home: it was a real sense of lightness - and yes, almost joy - that she didn't have to face future suffering. Then of course I felt guilty because it meant she didn't have any future to face in this world... my sister knew what I meant because her father-in-law died of cancer the year before. There is relief, as you no longer have to watch someone you love suffer; guilt about being relieved; sorrow or anger that it happened to them in the first place; and grief that they have moved on and will not be part of your future. So - complex emotions, all blurring together. I am glad that you are together with your family at this time so that you can share your memories, the different facets and ways that you remember your Dad, and get support from each other. Thinking of you all... xx

Hello Numpty, hope your Dundee break was good. Lot sof shared experiences. Thank you for putting them here, it's nice to know we are not alone.

How goes it Peanuthead?

No news, have hung out here a bit today and am trying to sell a few bit to raise funds.
DD2 birthday tea next week so am feeling a but intimidated by amoun tof cleaning I will have to do before other mums can be allowed in the house.

Thinking of you all, and love to Justa. x

Hi Everyone

I'm really touched by your replies - I somehow thought I was going to get flamed and told to pull myself together. Think that says alot about my current mental state...

It?s good to hear what you all think. I reread the text and realised what has made me so livid ? she goes on about how as she had frozen embryo transfer the egg was from 4 years ago therefore they did the nuchal result taking that into account ? ie her age 4 years ago. Really - did I need to know all that ? I know ours wasn?t age-related but bloody hell we went through the mill thinking it was and did I need to be reminded of the whole process. Feel like my nose has been well and truly rubbed in it. The text did sound like gloating.

And I thought about what I would have done in the same situation ? well I might have texted but I would at least have sent an individual one without the extra detail and saying something about how it might be upsetting to me.

Yes I'm very very angry generally and seem to be losing friends over this at an alarming rate and so wonder if I'm being far too sensitive. Katie, it?s exactly as you?ve said - something has been lost and even if you want to still be friends it?s just not the same and that?s really upsetting. One old and very good friend didn?t contact me til New Year even though she knew what had happened and I am very hurt and can?t imagine getting over that. She wasn?t there at an awful time ? even a text would have been enough.

And currently myself and DH?s social life is down to nil ? literally everyone I know is pg, or trying, so I?m too scared to see them incase they have become pg and I?m supposed to be joyous. Among the 20 or so local mums I know there are 2 who aren?t pg and are safe? but they are trying and so no doubt I will feel unsafe around them soon too. I do see people obviously ? haven?t yet completely gone insane and DD needs to get out too as she?s not in nursery but it?s a constant struggle and I?m so tired of asking about people?s pregnancies/births/cooing over newborns etc and tired of getting home and crying over another reminder. It?s literally every day.

Anyway back to my AIBU ? how do I want it resolved? I really don?t give a shit anymore?. (I did say I?m bitter) and I don?t have the energy to do anything about it. Plus she kind of removed herself from me when she started her fertility treatment ? ie even before she got pregnant, which has made me feel like a curse or pariah or something.

Tree ? yes I do feel sad and angry and alone ? and thank you for making me realize it. Bloody angry. I was told I couldn?t conceive and that was bad enough but hey, I was slowly coming to terms with egg donation, then I got pg then that was thrown in my face and I?m back to being unable to conceive again and it seems so unjust ? so many people seem to conceive at the drop of a hat - why couldn?t one of them have had my heart baby instead? And I think that constantly and then think what a bad person I must be to think such a terrible thing. And yes we are starting IVF which is great but even if I?m blessed enough to get pg it?s not with my eggs and my baby that died was.

Viv, I hope tues is bearable ? there?s always some anniversary around an anniversary it seems. Maybe having Dh?s birthday is a way to celebrate somehow.

Justa ? The father of one of my local friends died just before we had our termination - by a couple of weeks. He was in a coma for about 6 weeks before that and they didn?t know whether he would survive or not. So like me she was waiting and not knowing and unable to let go til it happened. We found so many similarities in our situations and got a lot of comfort from each other. Just really by comparing grief and I suppose we helped each other by knowing there was someone else in the room just about holding things together by a thread even if we weren?t talking about it or showing it. I don?t really know what I?m trying to say ? just that grief is grief whoever it?s for. Oh and also she too was so relieved once he?d died. She said she fantasized about going to the hospital and killing him just so it would be all over. So the relief you are feeling is so normal.

Anyway thank-you all for listening and for replying ? I really needed that rant and don?t feel so alone.

And now I have no exams for the next 3 months or so might even get to get on here more..

Gosh, just read my own post, I really am terribly angry, heres hoping that posting all that might shift a wee bit of it at least. You wouldn't know it to meet me, I'm really very polite and pleasant in RL...

Xpost Tree - we kept all the mums in the garden at DDs 2nd party, meant we didn't have to clean too much but then it was in sept not jan. All the mums I know in RL seem to have cleaners

at cleaners indeed.

Vent vent vent. It has to come out, it always does in the end. Then eventually it burns out and the brain can start processing and even moving on. Or at least looking for a road to move down one day.

Not easy Peanut, you are doing ok. Hang in there.

Just settling dd's but didn't want your post to be unanswered. Will be back x

Peanut, I remember your story well. You have had a lot to deal with: that wonderful unexpected hope, and then the terrible decision about this hoped-for baby, trying to make sense of what to do for the best. That is such a terrible dilemma, and I think you really need to be able to talk to someone - perhaps you already have, but just so that you can vocalise it and express/release the emotions that you have. Perhaps even writing things down on here will help. But this WILL take time; and in the meantime I'm sorry you have so many reminders of what was lost in real life. You are not a bad person to think the thoughts you do; you're just wishing that things had worked out the best for you, that's all. We get told the odds and statistics, but no-one would choose to be the recipient of those odds. And so often there's not the outlet to express anger in real life...

Better go, cat is being killed by next door neighbours evil white mog .

Just logged in after a busy weekend of RL relatives and work.

I'm very sorry for your loss, Justa. Much, much love to you. I am glad your father's passing was peaceful.

BG xxx

Hi everyone,

Will be a busy week for me as my sister's coming up from Melbourne tomorrow (haven't seen her since I was pg with baby last year, so we have lots of catching up to do)

Just wanted to let Viv know I wil be thinking of you tomorrow. Hope you find what we all say is true for you - that the lead up to the day is often so much worse than the day itself xx

Also, Peanut, no-one could blame you for feeling as you do. I second what the others have said though - let it out - whatever form that may take. It's the only way. I barely acknowledge generic texts at the best of times. I know people get busy but... I can only imagine how upsetting it was for you. Hope letting it out here has helped in some way

How is everyone else. I may not have time to respond much over next week or so, but I'll certainly make time to read (always do) and think of you all

Will pop into companion thread now and say hello. Take care xxx

Justa, so sorry for your loss. It sounds like he made a good choice to stop his treatment and go in peace and with dignity. It is so very heartbreaking watching someone go through the ravages of the desease. My OH lost his father 3 years ago to Cancer and the last few months were pretty hard, although in the end his passing was gentle and peaceful and it was a relief along with the sadness.

Peanuthead, I totally understand your anger. I really do think it was insensitve to include you in that generic text. Knowing your circumstances she really should at least have sent you something individually that was a bit more gentle. Although, actually I think she could have been less detailed anyway. After all, some people keep their traumas very much a closed book. You can never really know what anyone has been through so some of the details she mentioned may have even upset others that she sent it to.

Viv, thinking of you tomorrow. When my last due date came around I posted on here and a few people said the same thing about the anticipation of the due date being worse than the day itself and I also found that to be the case. I hope the day goes by without too much upset and that you find some peace afterwards.

Bee, you are quiet. Are you ok?

Peanuthead, you're not be 'far too' sensitive, you are just sensitive, and its totally understandable! You've been through so much and it's just NOT FAIR!!!!
And as for the anger, it's fine to be angry and I really understand that feeling. Half way through this pregnancy I suddenly felt really angry, and didn't recognise it or even realise I was. And I turned this negative feeling towards the closest person - my growing baby. Only after some counselling did I realise I was just bloody cross with life, and with having lost 2 babies, and there was no-one to blame, only 'fate'. So at least you are recognising your anger - let it out here, or do whatever you need to do. Stamp your feet, write a letter to 'life' and get it all out, smash some plates, do some exercise, have some counselling, or even just acknowledge how angry you are.
Everyone has written good advice about your friends tactlessness, and I don't think I have much to add to it apart from don't lose a good friend if you can find a way of moving past this, because good friends are important and she maybe doesn't realise what a mistake she made.

Viv, big hugs for tomorrow. xxxxxx

justa, more hugs to you. xxxx

Tree, you always write such good advice to us all. xxxx

Bee..much love. xxxx

Hello everyone else. xxxxxx

Hi Mrs BG. how's it going?

Peanuthead - hope you are feeling better for venting here. I agree with the others, your friend was totally out of order. If you'd only seen her the day before couldn't she have told you to your face? Have you spoken since?

justa -thanks for the link, no hurries to come back here. Hope you are coping. xxx

Viv - thinking of you tomorrow. Hope your dh's birthday can distract you both.

dh has man flu so had a busy weekend with the kids. Went to a soft play place with restaurant. Had to take ds2 to the loo and leave him there for a min, came back and found him gone but his pants and trousers sitting by the toilet. Found him prancing around the restaurant in his bare bum!

Love to all. xxxx

Hello all
Yes am quiet - think have retreated into shell after few weeks of ranting and raving here.
Dearest Lins - I am sending you lots of baby inducing hormones your way; curry and large gin and tonic did it for me once.
Shangrila and Mishta too - cannot believe really that our first batch of thread babies are all coming to join Justa's one soon, soon, soon.
Peanuthead -I just do think it is all so very, very hard honey. I do. It is. You have EVERY right to be angry, furious and indignant. I do not know why you, or any of us. I wish I did. It is something to do with the natural way of life, you can not fight it for ever I guess. But rant away, get it out and say it here whenever. We understand, truly. I agree with Lins, true friends are hard to find. Whenever I have got myself into a funk about my friends since all this happened ( and I have), I try and remind myself that they did not intend to hurt me. They may have inadvertently done so, may have said the wrong thing, may have acted thoughtlessly but they care. How on earth can they know how we feel? I know your friend has had fertility issues too, but she has not chosen to end a pregnancy. And that is such a traumatic, scarring and scary thing.
Whether to 'go there' with her? I do not know. Some friendships are not robust enough, some women do not have the emotional intelligence to deal with it, some will be defensive and cross back.
It is such a vicious cycle isn't it? The more angry and bitter one becomes, the more isolated one feels, the more isolated one feels, the more angry one becomes.
If you want to talk here about your fertility and your egg donation, well I think we have broad shoulders. I think we can here it and interpret it and hold you whilst you cry. You sound like a good person, a caring person. It is okay to be cross.
Viv - let's hope that you can shift on after tomorrow; I fell apart in the days building up to and felt some relief after.

Am waving to Justa but do not wish to intrude on a private spot.
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just passing by to say

Viv, hoping tomorrow passes as quickly and as painlessly as possible. xx

Fab story Eulalia.

Hi peanuthead. x

Bee - any appointment news?

Much love tomorrow VivC. CHeck in for hand holds if you need them. x

Am off at 6.30 in morning ladies but wanted to send a big cuddle to Viv. And to you too Peanuthead - you need one and deserve one.
bee xxxxxxx

Just ducking out, but wanted to quickly update re: breathing monitor. Saw paediatrician today; she was lovely, from the UK, and told me she would not let me go home with baby without monitor. Said she would be at the birth and that she would like to keep baby monitored in nursery whilst in hospital. Finally feel like someone is taking it seriously Feel much better

Good to see you Bee and MrsBG, Lins: labor vibes coming your way (may take awhile from here). Love to everyone else xx

Hi all.

Viv, thinking of you today.

Mishta, great news on the understanding consultant and the monitor. It's so soon now for you! Are you having fun with your sister?

Peanut, you do sound angry. I can see why. Have you had counselling at all? I ask that as someone who hasn't, so I have no idea if you would find it helpful. I understand about distancing yourself from people though - I have done likewise. This whole experience changes you profoundly. And I've found most friends are quite fluid, you can sort of get closer and then shift away and then get closer again when circumstances change.

Bee, hope you're doing okay on your travels...

Eulalia, I liked the story about your DS2! Very funny. Is the invalid recovered?

Justa, if you're reading, thinking of you.