support thread for women who have chosen to terminate II

[brightonbaby]

Erm, trying to create a new thread for us, ladies. Not sure if I've succeeded...

Hi all,

What a grey Monday morning. Some sadness here. Oh poor BB - will be thinking of you today. I am not surprised you had a meltdown. You work so hard for your family and keeping it together for work as well. Even when you are sad though you still have a sense of humour! I also feel you need to try again, it would seem like so much heartache for nothing otherwise. Let us know how it goes today.

brighton baby - lucky you, have a great holiday and hope it does indeed help to lift the spirits.

Cantdo - what a big day for you on Wednesday. Not much I can say but you will be in my thoughts.

Great to hear some of you get time alone with your other halves, that is quite a sore point with us, dh is always complaining he doesn't get enough of me. Even if we get all the kids to bed at a reasonable time, I am usually feeling pretty exhausted by then.

Went to a nearly new sale on Saturday for kids clothes, and you know what I even managed to buy a couple of baby outfits for a relative with barely a qualm. Possibly the retail therapy on dd helped, got her matching wellies, hat and cute raincoat.

Will check in later.

Just popping on to say am still thinking of you all, a great deal in fact.

BB I think meltdown afternoons can only be expected, so please be gentle on yourself, it is still such early days really, and the unfairness of having gone through this twice hits even harder. I really hope your apt with the geneticist today goes as well as can be expected, and if they can't offer answers at least you may be able to talk with someone who has seen other couples through similar turmoils and may offer a different perspective, and I hope a decent glimmer of hope.

Cantdo sending you lots of virtual hugs, and as much strength as can be mustered.

Still in a bit of a daze after our good news, feel so truely blessed, like coming up for a good lungful of air after a long time under the water... Am more emotional now than I was during the long 12 weeks waiting for the CVS results, makes me realise how much I was burying everything that was going on.

Love to you all

Thank you ladies for hearing the neediness in my voice yesterday - in spite of hiding behind humour.
Yesterday was better - all helped by wine and feeling needed to be on best behaviour a bit for my LM ( yes, lovely man) to atone for my craziness on Saturday.
Today I feel sick and dreading the bloody stupid appointment. Also am scared by how angry I was on Saturday. I never get angry - am relenting patient usually. It really scared me and did not have any behaviour patterns to deal with it. I felt as if I had been injected with an anger that made me unrecognisable to myself.
Am used to anxiety, self doubt, fear. I do not like it but am used to it and this all felt so new and overwhelming.
I know the geneticist will have no answers as have spoken to her already. I hate her statistics as they are based on a stab in the dark. At my ripe old age it seems to me that it is inevitable the next baby will be affected to. Maybe it is self destructive to choose to do something that will cause such devastation and heartache and trauma?
And maybe I just want to be pregnant - as being pregnant and scared is better than not being pregnant and feeling the loss.
So there you go.
Can not decide anything and feel sick.
We will discuss PGD- is LM's preferred option in spite of terrible odds (25percent chance it will work) - and high cost. He feels at least then one has some control over the situation.
I feel I want it all to be over and my life to be my life again- and maybe this is what Shangrila was talking about on the earlier thread. Have to know when to stop.
Off to do admin and manic house work.

Cantdo - i am glad you are preparing yourself for Wednesday in as much as one can. It sounds as if you are thoughtfully planning the day to take account of everyone's needs. I remember both Lins and Marj had afternoons out with their families after the service. That sounds right.
I hope the bosoms are less troublesome lovey.
Phew. Tough times.
Hello everyone else
BB xx

Hello All, sorry been scarce I've had visitors, so been busy. Went out on Saturday night (Shock horror!) with said friends, cocktails next to the river, followed by fab meal. This babysitting service is amazing! They sent a lovely girl, mid twenties, trained nurse and full time nanny for 2 little kiddies. Perfect. It's all so different from how life was a few months back, when it had been 2 years since DD had been out alone.

Sorry you had a bit of a meltdown BB, I know what you mean when you say you scare yourself. I've not done it for a while, but have done exact same thing. Always feel v embarrassed afterwards. Is it because you've been bottling things and trying too hard to be brave?

Tried bringing up the 'trying again' topic with DH yesterday...it's like banging your head on a brick wall. He keeps saying that DD is so lovely and he's really enjoying her now and that we wouldn't be able to go out if we had another baby and that he'd miss me etc etc etc. I'm not sure what to do, he gets SO wound up if I try and reason with him.

Happy hols brightonbabe,

Hello to everybody else xxx

very wise advice GU, thanks very much, I really appreciate it.

Hope you're doing ok, how many weeks now? Scan dates?

BK x

busier so sorry about your "meltdown"....be kind to yourself, ok?

Hi...
I have a beutiful healthy ten week old who I wanted very much and waited for for a year.
However two years ago I had a termination as I did not feel ready for a baby and had acute anxiety reaction. This really affected my husband's and I relationship and afterwards I went into black depression.
I am so happy to have my baby but feel unbelievably guilty about the termination and wonder will it aklways be in the background.
Help?

Hi GU
Well I have been in therapy for about seven years now - so yes am fairly topped up and it seems to be a very very deep deep unreachable thing to uncover. Have been thinking of quitting in fact as sometimes too tired to face it and do not necessarily want or need to face my demons at that time.
My LM pressed buttons on my emotional laptop that set off a whole series of feelings that just came bursting out in a very uncontrolled way. I have had this before. I know it. He knows it. It is scary but ultimately goes back into the hard drive and am not confronted with it on daily basis.
It tires me.
Geneticist over.
Nothing new to report but it has focused us both on the decision ahead of us. Ie a decision not just falling into pregnancy.

Feel deflated and tired and sad.
Bezzy love - I think it takes time.
You wanting a baby is right and normal and all the reasons you wanted a sibling for your DD are still there and to be heard.
You are young young young still ( although you may not feel it) and the sooner you get on with it, the better in many ways.
He is probably trying to protect you. Am sure he is a good man.
Tell him you are both strong enough to cope with what life throws at you?
Maybe he is scared.
I know i am.
And my LM.
1 in 10 is fairly crap as far as I can see.

Hi all

Ginga, welcome to the thread. I am sorry you are dealing with demons too. I am not sure what to say about termination and its effects long term because I haven't hit the long term yet! Becaroo might be able to help you there. But do you think having your DD now has brought back all the guilt and sadness more acutely?

Busier, glad the geneticist didn't spring any shocks on you, sorry it is so difficult for you. Do you mean you haven't yet made the decision whether or not to try again? I can imagine how hard it must be. I feel it too, already, but for me I have to try, I know that already, I can't not. Although I can hardly imagine the happy ending - or rather beginning - I originally did.

Hi Jumping and Eulalia (waves).

Well, I am utterly exhausted again. DD's insomnia plus all the grief and sadness is like a big heavy cloud of exhaustion tonight.

Bezzy, GU has good advice I think. You do have time. Why don't you leave it for a little while - if you can bear to, and I understand why you might not be able to bear to! - and try talking again? I would bet the reasons he is giving now are because he is scared after what happened - I mean, they aren't new reasons as you already had DD when you tried last time - but doesn't want to admit it/can't admit it.
Your night out sounds divine though!

Hi to all the missing people...

Hi all,
sorry for not being around...it's not that I haven't been here, but I am just too tired and worn out to write proper caring messages. Sickness not tooooo bad yet, but just feel like I have been drained of every ounce of energy. And so after a busy day, my brain refuses to think. I don't hate being pregnant, but I do hate what it does to me! And after all I have been through, I feel so bad about moaning.
I hate not replying to new posters, and I miss being part of this thread, but I have to go to bed....

Can'tdo, keep looking after yourself. I will be thinking of you so much on Wednesday morning, and hope you get the day you need to say goodbye to your lovely angel.

Bee, my darling, just don't know what to say about your poor meltdown day. (You'd think 7 years of therapy would have sorted it! ) But if you are angry, let it out, it's ok to be angry. You say you're not usually angry, but I think you have every right to rail and scream. Go smash something, it's very therapeutic. Big hugs hun.

Lots of love to everyone.
Lins xxx

Quickie to Parvati,
after my first termination, i went to really dark places, but thought that things would gradually get better. But actually it was 6 months before I really hit rock bottom.
You say you are terribly depressed, but that's not surprising, you are grieving for your lost baby. I just wanted you to know I know what you are going through, and to say hello and send hugs.
Have you had any counselling? or been to any support groups? Like the annoying old BT adverts used to say 'it's good to talk' . But they are right.
Keep posting here, and take it day by day. Love Lins xx

Hello everyone,

So much is going on with everyone I wish you all well: it helps keep things in perspective hearing your news and stops me becoming insular.

I struggled on Saturday, too, bb: my DH took the oldest 2 out for half a day to give me a break and ended up at the shops. I was greeted on their return by an overexcited 3 year old demanding that I read her new book.... Mummy's New Baby. Of all the insensitive purchases!!!!!! Men!!!! It was hours before he could see why that might have reduced me to tears... (and was cross that I was not just grateful he'd kept them out of my hair for so long)

Enough of that... you say you've been in therapy for years, have you tried regression hypnotherapy? I've heard that can give dramatic results, although I've not tried it myself.

bezzy I agree with the others that you need to know when you will be making a joint decision on this. Have you thought that DH may be worried for you and find it easier not to try again than to see you with such grief and pain?

Not sure if you'll be too busy to get online GU I hope you got the house straight and food in the fridge before your folks arrived and I hope that you enjoy their visit.

Eulalia (I'm not sure where that name comes from but I can't help thinking about PJ Wodehouse and Jeeves.....) congratulations on the shopping. I have a few friends who could be physically sick at the sight of a baby, or babywear, for a couple of years after their MCs....and I am starting to understand where they were coming from

Finally, can't do I'll be thinking of you on Wednesday. I got great comfort from planning our service and, remarkably, managed to coherently read the prayer I'd prepared. I totally lost it hearing my 8 year old read the one she made up, though...

I've had a REALLY bad day today. I have been so cross and upset I have been a horror to be around: I ended up spending hours writing a letter to the hospital... I went in for an appointment to check my hormone level had dropped sufficiently and was specifically told to be there for 9.30 when the phlebotomist was around. I was left in the waiting room with expectant mum's for 1.5 hrs in total - after pressing they did my urine tests but could not give me the results because the specially trained midwives were all busy, but might be free if I waited another 45 mins!!!!!! Since my mum was in the carpark with he littlies that was not really an option so I am due to go back Fri. I asked if I could have my blood tested whilst the phlebotomist was in and they said I was not down for a blood test so no. After seething and crying for a couple of hours I have written to say that, unless they can give me a really good reason why I need to go back I won't be going again and I'll deal with my GP.

Is it me being unreasonable or would anyone else be feeling upset at being ignored and left in a room of PG ladies? The worst thing is when they ask I feel compelled to lie or be vague - I can't face upsetting them with the truth when they are all so full of joy - and that's the bit I find particularly stressful.

I have to say my midwife unit is usually really good so today was a horrid surprise.

Anyway, back to the wine (good call, Cantdo), codeine and an early night, I think.

Take care

Dearest Daftbat
If you are a daft bat then it would appear most of us here are dafter.
I totally understand your feelings about being treated with such a lack of respect and dignity and compassion today. I remember when we had the diagnosis we were given a private room to talk and sob in.
When I went to the fetal medicine unit today to see the geneticist, there were plenty of pregnant women there, but fortunately I was not kept hanging around.
It is unacceptable that you were.
And golly, I am sure your hubby loves you desperately but you have to ask
what in the name of god was he thinking?
Hello?
Did he have a momentary loss of sanity?
Is it a freudian hiccup wherein he too feels the loss terribly and did the wrong thing almost to show how badly he feels too?
(I told you I had alot of therapy!!)
What a nincampoop really.
Daftie - when did you lose Joseph? I cannot remember? How old are you and can you or will you try again?
~I could not face regressive hypnotherapy - scares the living daylights out of me. Do not trust it. Do not want to go back thank you. But I appreciate the mention of it. (Golly am I coming across as a total fruitcake?) Lins also mentioned tonight that my emotional state a bit wobbly. I guess it is. But I do get back to base camp and really am managing myself - I just let it all out here. Am thinking maybe should rein self in again.
Cantdo - am so hoping Wednesday is as manageable for you and yours.
night night

bb, thank you for confirming it is not just a hormonal me that is overreacting (too late to withdraw the letter now, anyhow!).

DH wanted a big family too, but I don't thjink he thinks they count as babies till at least 16 wks and I was only 9 when they found I was ectopic.

J was born end Nov - 6 months to the day that they discovered I was ectopic. Sometime life really sucks . Because I was corneal ectopic (baby just falling out of tube) they have damaged my womb, too. So whilst they were delighted to tell me they had saved one tube, the fact that it will take 2 years before I am safe to carry again means - to me - that it's all over. I'm 40 and think 43 is too late to be having no.4 If I was still trying for 1 or 2 I may feel differently. But I think it was you who said you know it will be the same again and I feel the same way. My body (or God) is trying to tell me something..

I don't think you should rein self in. If you cant be open here, there is no avenue left to you, is there? I'd love hypnotherapy - but only if it were done miles from home with someone I'm never EVER going to see again.. you're talking to the woman who refused pethadene because she was scared what she might say!!

Goodnight and godbless you all

xx

PS Is Linspins a common name or have you ever worked in Stretford??? x

daftbat! I think men just don't think how it plays at all, they just don't know what it feels like. Sorry to hear of your awful day, yes very very unthinking to sit with all the other pregnant woman. Hope the letter shakes them up.

Hope you are feeling better now BB now you've got this day over with. What is the one in 10 figure?

Well daftbat and GU I wasn't actually baby shopping, I was getting stuff for my kids at a NCT sale (anyone go to them, they are great?) anyway they always have rails of baby stuff left unsold so I usually pick out a couple of things for my relative. But yes I think I am OK about no more babies, I went through the whole thing with ds2, knowing this is my last child even before he was born, so part of me is psychologically prepared for that. The last pregnancy almost doesn't seem real sometimes.

Will tell you about my name later, I have to go now as dh is calling me (he doesn't know about me on this thread, shhhh ) back later, probably be tomorrow now.

sorry not had chance to speak to everyone. sleep well xxx

Daftbat, sorry to hear about your truly sh!tty day. You really do have to wonder what these guys are thinking sometimes....or possibly just a case of 'I didn't think you'd find it upsetting'

regarding your treatment at the doctors....

Thanks everyone for the advice re DH, I'm not entirely sure why I'm in such a hurry for the next one, I guess that I'm just wanting this chapter of my life to be over.

Sorry you're not in a good place BB, I don't have any advice really, which makes me feel rotten, as you always have something wise to say to all of us.

Good morning to everybody, I hope it's a lovely day for all

BK x

OOOh am now excited about GU's story!

Busier, don't rein yourself in here. This is where you can let go and feel at home, then you get the strength to look after your family. You certainly don't come across as a fruitbat, but as a very articulate and caring person.

Lins, tiredness is a good sign... cocoon yourself...

Bezzy, I know what you mean about this chapter of your life. I feel like that. And above all I don't want my memories of DD as a toddler to be overcome with sadness so I'm trying to be happy and create happy memories.

Daftbat, I really feel for you sitting amidst all the pregnant people. I was lucky, because we kept being put in private counselling rooms (that's what they were called!) with flowers on the table and cups of tea. (I typed the last sentence and thought - well no, I wasn't lucky - lucky would be still being pregnant and being able to sit with everyone else - but you know what I mean). I understand too about you feeling it's time to stop trying after the two experiences. I have had two, and I half-feel that, but more so I feel I need to keep trying. I'm 33 - somewhere further back I said I was 34, in a stupid attempt to hide my identity - Busier said she did the same so maybe we are all fruitbats! - anyway I hope I have time... more than anything I hope that.

Hi Eulalia! and everyone else. When is Tree back?

ginga Firstly, many congrats on the birth of your new baby I am very sorry for your loss 2 years ago...perhaps my story might help you? Its rather long, but I'll try to condense it for you!...I have 2 beautiful and very much wanted dc - I have also had 2 mc and 2 terminations.

I have a chronic health condition - ME - and my dh and I really went through a lot of heartache deciding whether to try to concieve....my health is somethimes quite bad to the point of my being effectively bedridden at times. However, we decided that we would try and see what happened....
my 1st mc was in oct 2001. It was an early one and I hadnt realised I was pregnant so didnt really feel anything other than dissapointed. I became pregnant again in Jan 2002 and but by March was very ill. I was bleeding and we decided that rather than wait to see if I would mc again we would terminate as I was so ill. Sadly it was incomplete and I lost the rest of baby some weeks later. Not somehtig I would want anyone to go through I was devastated. Simply devastated. We told family members I had mc as my PIL are very religious and would not have been supportive.

After an awful few months, I became pregant again and (after a threatened mc) had my ds1 who is now 6. He was a very sick baby and we did not try again for some time - I developed late onset PND which didnt help matters.

I became pregnant again in Feb 2006 but became very ill very quickly - literally crawling around on my hands and knees. I decided to put my ds1 first and terminate.....not an easy decision and sadly it was incomplete again and I got very ill - anaemia and whooping cough this time.

I became pregnant again in Nov 2007 but sadly mc at 6 weeks. For some reason this loss really hit me hard.....not sure why as it was an early mc and aside from some pain it was all over in a week. Felt very, very low and thought that maybe someone was trying to tell me it wasnt meant to be.....

At this point I decided enough was enough...I could not put myself, my dh or ds1 through any more trauma. However, I got pregnant again (on new years eve 2007!!) and had my gorgeous ds2 in september last year.

All I can say to you is that I still think of my lost children....and that I loved them. However, over the months and years the pain has gone, the guilt has not quite gone (perhaps it never will) but lessened, and I am much more philosophical about my experinces. If not for the mc and terminations - which felt like the end of my world at the time - I would not have my 2 darling dc now....does that make sense?

I really hope that your loss 2 years ago does not affect your joy at your new baby....and if it does at times we are here for you xx

cantdo might not be able to be on MN tomorrow - I just want you know you and Stella will be in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow my love xxx

Thanks Becaroo. And that was a lovely message to Ginga - so moving and so compassionate.

Have you recovered from Saturday?

Lovely message Becaroo.

How are all of my non working ladies today?

BK x

Parvati
I am 38 and had a missed miscarriage at 15 weeks.

It was due to Trisomy 21.

I know it is devastating. I am in the process of trying again but very scared.

GL