support thread for women who have chosen to terminate II

[brightonbaby]

Erm, trying to create a new thread for us, ladies. Not sure if I've succeeded...

Becaroo, we all like to see the funny side of life too. Sometimes, you have to laugh a bit otherwise you'll cry!

It's awful for you that you've been so poorly. Do go back and demand help! Being under the weather for a long time really gets you down. Have you got some of Bee's tonic? She recommends this stuff, can't remember what it is, but apparently it works wonders.
xxx

cyber kick to your DH's boss from me. Tell him to be scared. Very scared you never know when a bunch of hormonal women will strike

Didn't get my dream job. Am overqualified. Oh well.

I know what you mean about details sometimes taking over. Not in such a sad situation, but I am a bit weird about anyone sleeping in my bed (other than DP, the kids, my mom, and OK, the dogs...) So when mil was watching DD when DP and I were at the hospital having DS, all I could think about was that if I didn't have him soon, mil would be in my bed. Irrational, and probably a bit obsessive/compulsive. But it helped, and DS arrived at 20:50. DP waited until we were on the ward, and went home so mil could go home.

So, I can understand getting the need to get teddy to Stella. Keeps her safe and loved.

Evening everyone,

Yes, Becaroo and Lins, I like the conception techniques...no. 2 was apt for me. I bought several sets of underwear all in readiness to start trying for a baby in March, then in Feb, we had a wee rehearsal and it happened! So, poor OH missed out on all those matching outfits.

Just catching up on the thread, but a few of us it seems have had bad days today. Something in the air, perhaps. I found it impossible to concentrate on anything today, so went into town and then spent ages in the baby section of Boots. Then, I felt like a bit of a fraud lurking there, so left quickly...bet the shop assts thought I looked shifty!

Yes, witholding a diagnosis is negligence, GU, no matter how it slipped through the net. Someone along the way didn't do their job properly.

Sorry you're feeling so rough Cantdo. Take it easy.

Ilovemy, sorry to hear you didn't get your job. I too am applying at the moment. It's tough right now. I've also been told I'm overqualified, but then playing stuff down on the CV isn't getting any interviews either. It's so hard to know how to play it, isn't it.

I am writing on this message board as I desperately need to clear my head and come out of this all-encompassing sense of despair...
Last January the 13th when i was 17 weeks pregnant, my amnio test revealed that some cells of my unborn baby were trisomy 21. It was an unplanned pregnancy as I already have two healthy children but I was ecstatic nonetheless and had been planning the new motherhood again and was about to tell the children about their new brother/sister to be. I was devastated by the test results, talked about pros and cons of having a baby who may suffer from minor to major retardation...My husband and I decided that it we won't be able to cope with it and that it might severely affect our other children's lives too. So we decided to terminate the pregnancy. It was not easy as you can imagine - 4 months pregnant and I even started to feel the baby move inside me, I lived with him/her, talked to her...we saw her 3D pictures on ultrasound which looked so perfect..
Four months on the tragedy just hit me. I feel terribly depressed and everything seems meaningless, even spending time with my husband, children, everything seems like a drag, all I want is to think about the unborn baby. I feel worthless, there's no point in continuing to go on, since I could play god and decide such a terrible thing because I was too special to look after an 'imperfect' child.

Hi Parvati

Thank you for writing here and I want to offer you support.

My baby was diagnosed with a condition incompatible with life 2 weeks ago today and one week ago I had her induced at 20 weeks. I had been feeling her move since 14 weeks. I am still feeling very raw.

We are in a different place because my baby couldn't have survived longer than an hour of life. But plenty of the women here have been in similar positions to you and to be honest I think it's impossible not to feel guilty, however irrationally, for terminating a baby (I do). But you have to make decisions based not just on you or baby, but on the rest of your family and your other kids. You made that decision for the best and it's a tragedy that you had to make a decision in the first place. Have you talked to anyone professional about how you feel? I'm still raw but I have to say that I find professional people have been very good at saying the right things about not blaming myself. I think professional help might help you. If you don't want that, what has helped me has been:

• remembering that my main role is to be here for my DD and trying to be positive for her
• wine, one small glass, I should think more might be depression-inducing
• hot baths
• novels
• keeping busy

But I'm not in a good place to recommend things because I'm still raw over my baby too.

I think I'll leave it to people further down the line to give you ideas of comfort, because it's too soon for me, really. Just to send you lots of hugs and support from here.

Hello, me again, picking up on GU's post.

I agree entirely with what she says (I'm not a minister, or even probably very Christian, but hey ho). You certainly don't fit your own description of yourself in the last sentence of your post, and you do sound depressed (although perhaps this feeling will come and go, and won't equate to long term actual depression, if you see what I mean).

This is not a perfect world, as I know to my own cost. There is no perfect decision. There is just muddling along with what we decide to do and taking support where we can. Does your DH know how you feel?

On a lighter note, my DD just smeared butter all over me. Lovely.

parvati I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I agree with the others that you sound depressed...I went through something similar when I had my first termination - everything seemed so pointless...how could people just be going on with their lives when mine felt so empty and painful? I was really angry for a time with everyne who was happy - people with babies in particular

I had a great GP at the time and he explained that I had done nothing wrong (I was raised a catholic and the guilt never really goes away!) and that I needed some help to deal with my loss - I was given anti depressants and they did help. But more important to me was someone acknowledging my loss...something I dont thnik even my wonderful dh understood. I think people assume that if you choose to terminate that you do not feel the pain and grief of loss...how very very wrong they are

If I am brutally honest with myself I still feel somehow that I did not have a "valid" reason like some of those on this thread for my 2 terminations - I know I put my health and my familys needs above those of my unborn child and that is something I have learned to live with. I felt (and still feel) that my first duty was to make sure I was capable of looking after a child and, later, the needs of my eldest child.

I know you will find love and support here, I hope you find it in real life xxx

GU I agree with your sister. Shocking

Parvati
Firstly well done dear woman for finding us and telling us your story. I too have had a termination for DS - in fact I have had two. Please try not to be so hard on yourself - I utterly agree with the other posters that you have had to make a decision no woman should ever have to make. The body and the mind reel from the shock of it. For some women the pain and sorrow and heartache comes straight away - like a bullet directly as a consequence of the event - and for others it takes time. Weeks go by, you carry on in a blur of coping and carrying on and then out of nowhere a dark fog descends. I think there is no way of avoiding the fog. It is temporary and understandable and necessary for recovery. What thinking, feeling mother would not feel this heartache and pain and sorrow and guilt?
You are normal with this.
Sharing here my deepest, self-doubting moments has helped enormously.
Can you talk to your partner?
Have you tried counselling or ringing one of the lovely ladies from ARC?
We are here for you.
That is why we set this up in the first place.
It is unimaginable the pain we have all felt.

Hold on tight to our thread and we will help you as much as we can.
It does pass.
With love
Busier Bee

GU -- >

Re: your medical records. Unless there is a timeframe here that needs to be considered (i.e. running out of time if you wish the matter to go to court, and are at risk of these running out. Actually now that I think about it, the date of knowledge would be the proper date any court would take into account.

I think you shouldn't worry about this whilst pregnant. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from going through your medical records at this stage, and it really can wait until the baby is born.

My rather strong opinion as one who has seen parts of my medical records, and the parts I saw were so wrong, and it was upsetting.

I would want to spare you that.

Hi Parvati, welcome and so sorry you've had to join us here. My story is very similar to you, I already have children, and my last pregnancy was unplanned and terminated for the same condition. I think the fact the baby was unplanned and therefore 'unwanted' to some extent (although of course we were pleased once we'd got over the surprise) does make the guilt worse. I felt that I was thinking that we'd manage somehow with another baby but the fact that the baby was disabled I should have been more willing to care and protect for it. And I didn't, I let him down, but the reality of it was it would have been a terrible strain on my family. It is a terrible decision but you've done the best for your family. It's easy to be swayed and influenced by society and 'success' stories of children with this condition and to allow yourself to feel bad. There is only one family, yours and you have to just think about that and nothing else. Take care and don't worry about feeling bad, just let it out, talk as much as you want here. We are here for you. xxxx

Just a quick hi to everyone else, sorry not got a lot of time today to go through the posts, housework before taking ds2 to our favorite pool as the sun is shining here.

Have a good Friday folks. Big smiles to cheer I hope xxx

Yay for Scottish sunshine! Enjoy it - are the midges out yet?
My LM - from Aberdeenshire - says we can not go to Scotland in summer due to the tyranny of the midges and cannot go in the winter as too , now? how do I spell this word? - dreich?
Suspect that wrong.
Consequently have only been twice since we have been together - in spite of him being deeply attached to his motherland and telling me is most beautiful place on earth.

Ilovemydog- we need someone to train on the teaching of reading in China if you fancy that as a new job? Hmmmm.

Morning everyone,

Parvati, I'm so glad you posted on here. The ladies on here are so kind and were there for me when I was in need. The advice given has been worded so beautifully already, I'm not sure I can add to it, except to say that you are not alone. You have to know that. Coming on here was what made me feel immediately better by knowing that other women felt the same way, or had gone through the same thing. We'll be here for you.

Busier, my OH is from Aberdeenshire too! Never heard of dreich...I'll ask him.

Thank you all so much, for such wonderful messages, I sat at my desk reading them with silent tears streaming down my face. It might be due to some hormonal imbalance as one of you have rightly suggested - but I don't understand why I can't overcome this sense of despair four months after the tragedy. The London hospital where this was carried out, offered me a funeral service and we chose to cremate the baby whose ashes are waiting to be collected. I am too depressed and sad to go there. The whole procedure was done with a lot of care and support, but I still can't stop feeling inadequate. Especially when I see happy women with their perfectly normal babies, which reminds me that I would have given birth this month. I didn't even want another baby, but now that I've lost the third child, all I can think of is to try again. But I would have thought that's a wrong reason for having a child. In a way I should be just happy that I have two such wonderful witty children and they fill my life with a lot of fun and happiness. But at the moment I am not spending much time with them, I get easily irritated and they don't understand why I am so depressed and often bad-tempered.

Hi Parvati,

So glad you posted back. Perhaps the reason why it's hit you so hard four months later, is that this was the month you were due. Give yourself time. Somehow, it will, it does, get easier.

Hi Parvati, so sorry that you've had to join us. I too terminated for Trisomy 21 on 6 April at 14 weeks, we decided that it would not be fair on our 2 year old, and now that we already have her, she had to come first. So I can fully understand the emotions you are going through, as I felt them quite early on after the loss.

When I was feeling particularly down, my husband pointed out to me that if I carried on being so down, it made the termination pointless as my 'living' family were suffering. (OK that sounds pretty harsh, he didn't say it like that, but in effect that's the point he was getting at) after that I found that life was a little bit easier, and it even helped me to get over the guilt a tiny bit.

Not sure if my words help a little, but really hope that you start to feel better soon. The ladies here are all fantastic, and when you have 'one of those days' there's always somebody around to give some advice and to hold your virtual hand. And I guarantee that somebody will have already experienced the feelings that you are going through, hence making you feel like you're not going through this alone.

Take good care of yourself

Bezzy xx

Hi Parvati
Well done for coming back.
It can become vaguely obsessional this thread I warn you now. But in a good way.
Am sure the due date can not be helping things. I was ambivalent about trying for a baby in the first instance and now think of nothing else. But the children we have already need us so enormously. They are our babies aren't they, however old they are.
Is a long and shocking and upsetting process. You are not alone.
It sometimes amazes me that healthy babies are born at all - such is the hugeness of what we have all experienced.

Brightonbabe - my LM is from Craighellegie -or something. And dreich means damp and sort of wet in a Scottish way. Much worse than English damp! And also much better at same time.
Funny reserved old things I find - Scottish men. Wonderful and strong and solid and slightly repressed (whatyoufink?)

Wow so many folk from round here! No midges here BB as we are just a mile from the coast. Midges are prevalent round lochs and still water. Actually here on the East coast its very dry, probably one of the driest parts of the country but a lot more rain on the other side of the Grampians and the west coast is much wetter. And yes 'dreicht' does indeed mean damp and wet.

Bezzy - that is a very good piece of advice your dh gave you about keeping happy for your 'living' family. I think that's what underpinned my thoughts recently. Things sort of hit me a bit last week, but I worked it through and now getting so much more pleasure from life.

It does sound like you are depressed though Parvati and need a bit of a boost with counselling or some ADs perhaps? And grief can come back at any time, months or even years, its probably better to just talk it through with someone as it can help to dissipate it otherwise it'll just be with you like a heavy load. I am glad that we can be of assistance!

growing up - such wise words from you too, how you feeling today - any calmer!?

Pool was cold by the way, they'd had a few problems with heating the water so didn't stay in for long. I'd much rather be in Spain! Better go, eldest due home any minute. Talk later, perhaps with a glass of wine...!

Hi ladies

I really understand what you are all saying and I empathize. I am in a slightly different position in that my babies couldn't have survived, but the guilt is still there regardless. I think it was Growing Up who explained that guilt is often part of grief and distinguished between guilt and remorse - the guilt is almost indefinable and inexplicable but it is there.

Parvati, you will get past this and I am sure you aren't affecting your family the way you think you are - in fact, I suspect the delayed depression comes partly from the fact of having to carry on and cope for your children immediately after the loss of the baby. In other words if you have other children it is near impossible to grieve enough at the time so a lot of it has to be delayed, IYSWIM.

I'm sure some of mine is delayed now. I think that when I find myself laughing at something DD said or enjoying a sip of wine. How can I momentarily forget? But the human spirit needs time to cope and there is this numbing mechanism.

Lots of Scottish links here! I'm sadly English through and through, albeit a northerner with soft vowel sounds.

I have missed you all today. I need you all! That sounds feeble but I do. You are my virtual support network, like the veins and arteries keeping me going. Big hugs.

PS: the unfair God thing. My grandmother has always believed and gone to church, not in a pushing it in your face way but it has been part of her. She has said for years that she is happy alive and will be happy to die to be reunited with her husband in heaven. And now she is lying in a hospital bed, been there a month, allowed nil by mouth, so can't eat or drink, waiting to die. She isn't living anymore but they have no idea how long it will take her to die.

I wish her God would spare her this.