support thread for women who have chosen to terminate

[busierbee]

Hello
Busier Bee here - I felt that before I went to bed I wanted to open up officially a new place for weary travellers of those on the road that we have chosen to rest our heads, muse, sob, moan and support each other.
Also the kind, compassionate souls who have not been there but who offer their support and lend an ear and pass a gentle word.
We have chosen to be here and we are here and we are not alone.
Thank you so much all of you -for I personally do not know where I would have been in the last few weeks without you all.
Night - sleep well
kisses and thoughts
BB xx

Ooo yeas hello BB. There is a great forcast for your bit of the world, so you can grab a tan and say your holiday was very hot indeed

Hope the sun shone inwardly at any rate.

And big up love to all the mammas out there.

Hope you are ok JJF, Friday approaches. You can always rely on time to pass, thank Lordy.

welcome back BB, we missed you.

Hope the break was good, and that the weather was ok ish...

Are you feeling any better in yourself?

Little funny for you all....had a delivery from Tesco today...amongst my shopping was 3 packs of pro natal vitamins (3 for 2) and 2 big boxes of condoms (BOGOF)....cashier must have been very confused!

Off to watch BGT

B xxx

Bezzy, that's funny!

Jelly fish, have to wish you GOOD LUCK for tomorrow, really hope it all goes ahead for you. Would like to say, 'try to stay calm and positive, and look after self,' but I know how hard that is and how annoying it can be, to be told to relax and 'everything will be ok' . So will just send you virtual hugs instead. ((((((( ))))))). xx

Bee, good texts tonight! I'm off tomorrow until Sunday, but catch up with you next week. In the meantime, maybe have some more 'fun' !! You know what I mean! xxx

Love to everyone
Lins xx

OOOOoooooOOOOOOO...........fun!!??

Oh yeah?

Hope you're ok JJF.

Well, well, well.. I can not leave your ladies alone for five minutes can I without drama, cheekiness, political dissent and condom and pro natal orders.
Firstly I must wish JJFish all the heartfelt empathy and reaching outness and strength in the world. I can not imagine how traumatic this coming and going must be for you. Dreadful. But the time must shift and you must know and you will move into the next stage of this pregnancy.
I can also vouch for The God of Pregnancy - Prof Nicolaides. He is excellent and has helped many women to achieve the information they so desperately need.So good luck dear girl. If you come to London and need either a hand to hold or a sofa to cry on - I would be flattered to help you - or even just a phone call before, during and after. Let's hope though that you will get the testing over with tomorrow.
Dearest Lins - I know you have gone off on your hols now - but you know how very pleased and moved I am by the news of your number four baby honey. You know I am and you know I had a weep for us and for all of us. I am touched you told me and I am imaging a future where we all have a positive experience of pregnancy, testing and decision making if it is required. It touches me that we started here on MN in such confusion and here we are somehow wiser and stronger somewhere, and connected into a community of large hearted, open minded, supportive, kind, kind, kind women who judge not. Something has awakened inside me about sadness and sorrow and how it is our story. But not the sum of us.
I have not read the other thread (The Others) and do not need to. I know that there is an enormous moral maze around this issue - but this space, this thread has never asked for a debate and since we are sensitive to the needs and raw, raw emotional states of each other, we have never had one. If people need to, for whatever reason, then that is perfectly acceptable.. . I admit I read these comments and do feel humbled by some women's experiences. It is so much about whether one wishes to choose or respond to life's vicissitudes and happenings. These choices have been our choices and we stand by them and they are tough and sorrowful and we quietly receive respect and support from those who have chosen to be here. Nothing more.
So please do not feel afraid anyone or feel we can no longer openly share our inner thoughts. We can. I will. Many of us do.
If you want to pass by, pop in and read and be a bystander that is fine too. But so far can not see any harsh comments here on our thread.
It is easy to feel exposed and vulnerable when you know that a thread wherein some posters feel we have acted in bad faith is living next door. But this is freedom in fact and we live in a society where everyone has a right to speak. Thank goodness really. We built this thread from tiny tiny loose threads that were hanging from our metaphorical clothes and we have woven a cloth that is strong and comforting. Good. Am glad. Am pleased. You are all still here.

So am I.
Speak to you in the morning you individual spirits and souls.
Night night
Busier Bee

Such strong words BB, just the kind of motivation I need to start the day / weekend.

A really close friend of mine found out yesterday that her baby has a 1 in 65 chance of being Down's. Poor girl didn't want to come to me because she was afraid of bringing back bad memories, I was very surprised at myself, that I managed to keep it together for her, and managed to advise her in an objective and practical way (you name the testing, I've had it done). A true indication that I really am starting to heal.

I just feel SO badly for her, I know EXACTLY how she's feeling, confused and scared. Her and her DH have differing opinions on what they'll do if the results do come back positive, which is exactly how DH and I were, when DDs test results came back high risk. Luckily DD is a bouncing 2 year old and a good inspiration for my friend.

Anyway, she's decided to go ahead with further testing, to hopefully put her mind at ease for the next 6 months.

I'm hoping that I was the statistical "1" out of the proverbial 1 in however many, in order to prevent my friends and family from going through what we went through. Sorry, am rambling.

Enjoy the sunshine everyone, I'm off to get my DD a Little Tikes cosy coupe, she keeps pointing at them and saying 'WOW' bless her.

Love you all

B xxx

Morning campers
Dearest Bezzy - another day got through and another chapter in the life of someone who has experienced shock in the pregnancy department shared with a friend.
We all know what she is going through poor girl and let's hope all is well for her and her hubbie - the odds sound good ish do they not - and most DS pregnancies come from odds of 1 in 2 to 1 in 10 apparently. Gosh is hard though to relive it.
And I so do know about the 'finding out a friend is pregnant' thing. There have been two births and two pregnanices among my friends and it is so very bittersweet. I can not help but be delighted for them but the sense of 'why not me?' and the sense of 'how could I ever feel joy at being pregnant' is huge.
Not the same for Mrs Pins however - for her I feel so relieved and delighted and touched that we are here for her - also sad for her that she can not enjoy the pregnancy early weeks and sad for myself too that I am paralysed somewhat.
But I feel such connectedness to you all and boy does that ever help me.
Glad you are stockpiling pro natal supplements! We also have started taking it( and i mean we as have got the male equivalent one - much to his horror and disgust!).
Have abandoned the 5g one for now - and might take 8oo mg - ie twice the dose.

Dearest dearest Olive Tree.
Sweet lovely lady - you are having your own troubles - little baby and Hubbie being made redundant is very tough on you all. I wish him well. How was the egg day? Did it run the way you wished it? The woman I spoke to whilst on holiday ( ah! there is no such thing as a holiday when the mind is preoccupied with making babies) from UCH's PGD department basically said we would be better off trying naturally or having an egg donor or adopting. That PGD is very expensive (yes - I know that ) and it does not sound like many people have used it for DS diagnosis. The two people who she knows that have, sadly did not conceive.
She emphasised that it is random bad luck and that one begins to see a pattern where there is none. Forgive me.. but I see A PATTERN.
The pattern being one I do not like.
It does however bode well I think for Bezzy my dear, and Marj and others who have had a DS pregnancy - as it truly is very rare for it to happen twice and you are younger than me.
But ,youknowwhat, I have to try again. As Shangrila succintly put it - you have to weigh up which is more painful; knowing that you are giving up on having a wee one together, or facing the prospect of another termination. I have already started to plan when I would have the termination. And am not even pregnant yet.
Sad sad sad.
It almost does not help to know it is bad luck for my own identity. I do not want to see myself as unlucky. I do not want to be unlucky. This is sounding very tra-la-la and you know that I do not feel tra-la-la about it at all. I am tortured by it.
Justaboutgrowingup - glad you are holding on tight to that bean.
Back soon for lighthearted look at my holiday from hellish first 24 hours of my holiday.

Lins,

Just back from my hols and had a quick scan and saw your fantastic news .

I am so so pleased for you, your DH and DD. Bet you were so shocked to fall so quickly after what you had said previously about it taking ages. I had been thinking of you lots over the last few weeks thinking how the TTC 'thing' was going but didn't really want to ask.

Will catch up and read up on the other messages tomorrow but just wanted to send my congrats to you, hope you are feeling well. Lots of love Marj

Welcome home Marjie! How was your holiday my dear? I hope you rested and had time to reflect on recent months and think about the way forward.
Again chatted to my LM last night about trying again - he so is not keen to go through more heartache and sorrow and disappointment. Kept saying to me 'But do you really think, can you imagine, we will have a healthy baby; because I can't.'
He really cannot. And I know what he means of course because both times we have thought yes, here comes our time, and both times we have had such terribly shocking troubling news. I do not want to bully him, do not want to put us through more termination hell, do not want to say 'It will be fine' when I know it will not.
I rang the geneticist yesterday as can not wait til the 15th to know if we have any chromosomal issue - we do not of course. As expected. So we have, allegedly, no reason not to try.
Re my holiday - the first day was frankly farcically bad. It was one of those 'my crap holiday' columns from the Guardian.
Me and two of the children arrived at Reus airport - warmish in fact - Hurray! - go to car hire place, we have given you an upgrade! - Hurray again.
Suddenly realise purse missing. Oh dear. This is very ... me.
I am scatty with stuff. Empty every bag, in manic way. No purse. No money. Nothing. Purse is in fact on plane - get purse back. Deep breaths - okay let's try again.
'Sorry, you have no credit card? Oh no, Mrs then you can not have car'
What? But I have paid already for the car! I paid in England - but apparently in the tiny tiny small print it states one must have a credit card for the deposit. Cash? No. Debit card? No Mrs.
I am beginning to feel somewhat agitated.. ' It is not Mrs, it is Madam!' I snap at the poor girl at the desk. Smallest child is wittering on about his made up world ( Georgieland- just off the coast of Chile, has been going now for about two years, is very real to him. He has invented names for all the football players in all the leagues, he knows them off by heart. There are 111 I think. I am not joking - my favourite name is Closh, followed by Swine. The capital city is called Ngh)
She bloody well will not let me have a car. I am going to cry. I ring LM who has always encouraged me to invest in a credit card and I have always staunchly refused -why have one? If I have not got the money in my current account then I should not be spending money it seems to me.
We get a taxi with me humming to diffuse my tension. 74 euros. Excellent.
Arriving at our casa for the week, we notice it is right by the dualcarriageway. It is like a Spanish version of Brookside, accept everyone has moved out because no one likes Brookside anymore. Tumbleweed whirling down the roads, drinks cans everywhere, fag butts on all the steps to the 'Commercial Centre'.
Oh my.
Deep breaths - you know in The Railway Children film when they arrrive at their new home in the middle of the night and the mum character says 'what fun' when really she should be reaching for the smelling salts? That was me.
I even got in the pool to try and muster some enthusiasm.
Pizza is purchased with something that looks like cat food as a topping. No one eats it. We watch Eastenders. It is not like Mamma Mia - with a beautiful white stoned maison and azure seas.
A bath. Yes that will help. I have a bath. As I get out my son asks sweetly 'Mum, have you farted?'
No babe, have you?
An almighty wave of noxious, nastiness washes over us. A smell like no other I have ever smelled in the house. It is methane, and crap and sewerage and OH MY it is utterly overwhelming -it pours into every nook and cranny of casa disaster.
We scream and giggle and scream and run onto the balcony. It will not go away - it creeps nearer and nearer. We are scared to light a candle in case the house blows up.
Finally the caretaker comes and unapologetically explains that no one has used the shower for weeks, that Spanish plumbing not great ( really?) and it will pass in a bit.
I want to sob. I text my mum who cries apparently and poor LM sounds... disappointed. Again.
All three of us get in to bed together and become frankly hysterical. Have to keep putting the light on to check that the caretaker is not under the bed. I do not sleep a wink. How is this nice? How is this a holiday?
Next day not much better - weather grey. I force everyone to trek down to the beach - 45 minutes. It is like a horror film - we have to go under the dual carriageway through an underpass that no one has used since the war, then endless paths with rundown abandoned villas, buildings, swimming pools. It is like a war zone. We see NOT A SOUL. Finally find an ice cream shop and trudge back.
My adorable, life saving man and other son arrived at about 6.30. I burst into tears.
They have a car! We can escape.
Rest of holiday very amusing - lots of laughter which is what a holiday is about isn't it really?
I am never going on holiday again.
I will come and stay with you Tree - and that will be nice.
Phew.
marj - hope yours was infinitely better!!!
Bee

Welcome home Marjie! How was your holiday my dear? I hope you rested and had time to reflect on recent months and think about the way forward.
Again chatted to my LM last night about trying again - he so is not keen to go through more heartache and sorrow and disappointment. Kept saying to me 'But do you really think, can you imagine, we will have a healthy baby; because I can't.'
He really cannot. And I know what he means of course because both times we have thought yes, here comes our time, and both times we have had such terribly shocking troubling news. I do not want to bully him, do not want to put us through more termination hell, do not want to say 'It will be fine' when I know it will not.
I rang the geneticist yesterday as can not wait til the 15th to know if we have any chromosomal issue - we do not of course. As expected. So we have, allegedly, no reason not to try.
Re my holiday - the first day was frankly farcically bad. It was one of those 'my crap holiday' columns from the Guardian.
Me and two of the children arrived at Reus airport - warmish in fact - Hurray! - go to car hire place, we have given you an upgrade! - Hurray again.
Suddenly realise purse missing. Oh dear. This is very ... me.
I am scatty with stuff. Empty every bag, in manic way. No purse. No money. Nothing. Purse is in fact on plane - get purse back. Deep breaths - okay let's try again.
'Sorry, you have no credit card? Oh no, Mrs then you can not have car'
What? But I have paid already for the car! I paid in England - but apparently in the tiny tiny small print it states one must have a credit card for the deposit. Cash? No. Debit card? No Mrs.
I am beginning to feel somewhat agitated.. ' It is not Mrs, it is Madam!' I snap at the poor girl at the desk. Smallest child is wittering on about his made up world ( Georgieland- just off the coast of Chile, has been going now for about two years, is very real to him. He has invented names for all the football players in all the leagues, he knows them off by heart. There are 111 I think. I am not joking - my favourite name is Closh, followed by Swine. The capital city is called Ngh)
She bloody well will not let me have a car. I am going to cry. I ring LM who has always encouraged me to invest in a credit card and I have always staunchly refused -why have one? If I have not got the money in my current account then I should not be spending money it seems to me.
We get a taxi with me humming to diffuse my tension. 74 euros. Excellent.
Arriving at our casa for the week, we notice it is right by the dualcarriageway. It is like a Spanish version of Brookside, accept everyone has moved out because no one likes Brookside anymore. Tumbleweed whirling down the roads, drinks cans everywhere, fag butts on all the steps to the 'Commercial Centre'.
Oh my.
Deep breaths - you know in The Railway Children film when they arrrive at their new home in the middle of the night and the mum character says 'what fun' when really she should be reaching for the smelling salts? That was me.
I even got in the pool to try and muster some enthusiasm.
Pizza is purchased with something that looks like cat food as a topping. No one eats it. We watch Eastenders. It is not like Mamma Mia - with a beautiful white stoned maison and azure seas.
A bath. Yes that will help. I have a bath. As I get out my son asks sweetly 'Mum, have you farted?'
No babe, have you?
An almighty wave of noxious, nastiness washes over us. A smell like no other I have ever smelled in the house. It is methane, and crap and sewerage and OH MY it is utterly overwhelming -it pours into every nook and cranny of casa disaster.
We scream and giggle and scream and run onto the balcony. It will not go away - it creeps nearer and nearer. We are scared to light a candle in case the house blows up.
Finally the caretaker comes and unapologetically explains that no one has used the shower for weeks, that Spanish plumbing not great ( really?) and it will pass in a bit.
I want to sob. I text my mum who cries apparently and poor LM sounds... disappointed. Again.
All three of us get in to bed together and become frankly hysterical. Have to keep putting the light on to check that the caretaker is not under the bed. I do not sleep a wink. How is this nice? How is this a holiday?
Next day not much better - weather grey. I force everyone to trek down to the beach - 45 minutes. It is like a horror film - we have to go under the dual carriageway through an underpass that no one has used since the war, then endless paths with rundown abandoned villas, buildings, swimming pools. It is like a war zone. We see NOT A SOUL. Finally find an ice cream shop and trudge back.
My adorable, life saving man and other son arrived at about 6.30. I burst into tears.
They have a car! We can escape.
Rest of holiday very amusing - lots of laughter which is what a holiday is about isn't it really?
I am never going on holiday again.
I will come and stay with you Tree - and that will be nice.
Phew.
marj - hope yours was infinitely better!!!
Bee

OH BB! What a nightmare! I always find that everything is so much scarier in a foreign country. Glad everything turned out OK once LM arrived.

Update on friend - she's got an appointment with the FMC for a CVS on Wed. I advised her to do that, after you all recommended the clinic. She's in Scotland and was given the odds of 1 in 50 for miscarriage with a CVS, which she wasn't comfortable with. HOWEVER, I'm shocked at the duff information she's been given. She was 12+2 when she got the results from the nuchal and bloods and was told that she was too late for a CVS and that she'd have to wait until the 17 June for an amnio! She was also told that at 12 weeks she was already too late for a surgical termination, should she have to resort to ending the pregnancy. It's completely outrageous.

I've booked a week away in August, really looking forward to it...just need to find an apartment, which is proving easier said than done!

Hope you all enjoying the weather, DD has V cute summer outfit on, paid a fortune for it. Hope it's not the only time she'll be able to wear it (which is what happened with the beautiful summer dresses she had last year, which got packed into the attic with the tags still attached) Am in big trouble if we ever do come to have another child and it's of the blue variety.....pink pram, pink car seat, not a single neutral coloured item......

ramble ramble ramble

B x

Bezzy kins - Hello! Gorgeous day and we are off to a posh wedding.
Re your friend - glad she knows about the FMC - they will sort her out and you know something else? Sometimes, after their very detailed scan, women's odds change enormously and can remove the need for a CVS - they really can. If she does do one- probably it will be Wednesday - there is an awful lot of waiting around I warn you.
Poor girl must be going through hell. Are you okay Bezzy? Hope it is not sending you down a painful path.
Bet your wee girlie looks gorgeous - a wee summer frock! Ah.

Am surprising myself actually, no sad emotions at all. I'm glad that my experiences are actually helping somebody.

I suspect that I'll be fine now, and then should I ever get pregnant again, the emotional rollercoaster will start all over again.

Ooooh posh wedding! I LOVE them! waiters waltzing around with trays of champagne...aaahhh....bride and groom have the perfect day too!

Enjoy your day xxx

Yes I know -if only was going to my own! Bloody hell.
But yes, have borrowed a dress from a friend, rather nice, deep indigo silk and from Whistles but leetel bit too snug on the arms - so will not be waving arms in air at the 'do' in the evening.
Re your friend and you doing well - Well done Bezz. Is a sign of recovery and is also the spirit of this thread that somehow by helping others, you can help yourself. The deep all encompassing darkness of the early weeks does pass and it is important for silent followers of our thread - who may be in that spot- to know this.
kisses to you and little summery girl

not so sure about not waving those arms BB...I'm having visions of hot mama standing on a table later tonight (after one too many Pimms and lemonade daaaaarling) waving her arms around to YMCA.....

mmmm Pimms....may need to buy some lemonade (diet of course)

B x

I do turn into a terrible forty year old flirt when sozzled in fact - last wedding - friend's daughter's - I told my friend's son - -early twenties - how I wished I was ten years younger and would be all over him like a rash. Sadly really should have said twenty years younger!
And am a killer dancer - well I think so. And that is what matters of course. ( no wonder he has not asked me to marry him!)

I forgot to add, BB, will be singing into an empty wine bottle

Hope you had fun xxx

Bee - great to have you back. Sounds like you had lots of laughter on your holiday which is good, especially given your first 24 hours. I love your writing, it's so witty and I can just imagine myself there with you experiencing it all. Ever thought of writing novels - you'd be fab at that??

Our holiday to Turkey was nice, rained the first day but they in the 30's for the rest of the time. My DD was very well behaved (which is good for her) don't think I had to raise my voice to her once.. bless her. I was very frightened on the flight though. Never had a problem with flying before but I just keep thinking bad things are going to happen, was convinced the plane was going to fall from the sky and landing was just horrendous. I was physically crying when we landed in Turkey, I was so scared. Feel very anxious and panicky about normal every day things.

Generally things not going very well for me though, my depression, which I've talked about previously, seems to be consuming me again. Don't seem to be getting on very well with DH, from the outside you would think I have a perfect life, lovely DH, DD, house, car but I have no peace. I feel like I'm always searching, striving for peace and I find none. I'm pretty exhausted with it all, with life really. Lots of silent crying, heartache. I'm always struggling with my weight and I've put on 3.5 stone since January so now even if I wanted to TTC I think I'm too overweight and need to lose weight. I see people who are pregnant and think how far are they, how would I have been feeling now, nearly 29 weeks, how big would I have been. Why haven't I still got my baby, I hate life, it's so unfair. If it wasn't for me DD I know I wouldn't be here now, she's the only thing that's keeping me going. Think I need to go and see my GP!

Sorry for such doom and gloom on such a sunny day, no sun in my life though I'm afraid.

Lins, Tree, Justa, JJF, Bezzy and everyone - hope you are all OK and the sun is shining for you all.

Bee - enjoy the wedding

xx

so sorry to hear that you're having a grey time Marj. I'm afraid that I'm not too good on the advice front, but just wanted to let you know that I keep checking MN during the day if you want to have a rant.

Hope you feel better really soon

B xx

How's the head BB?

Hope you feeling more sunny today Marj.

Love to everyone xx

marj - welcome back and big hugs from me. Is there anyone you can talk to in RL? I wish I could say more to cheer you up.

BB - how you today? Your holiday story made me laugh at your expense I am afraid but it was written in such an amusing way. I am glad it all worked out in the end though.

I don't know about you folks but the sun hasn't stopped shining here since Thursday. We've already been to 2 different beaches and today are going here -outdoor pool It's just a short drive away and we use it a lot in the summer. The 2nd photo on the main page is mine! I won a local competition with that picture.

Have a good day all, will check in tomorrow for news, particularly from JJF. xxx

Sorry to have been away so long- it's been bonkers around here, and I have been up and down to mum's etc etc etc.

SO....

BB. Ok, so I'll admit to having a giggle at the holiday description. Particulary the methane chasing incident. We have often had this, when you just want to go home. Those holidays usually come right in the end, as I hope yours did!

Very welcome at mine dear. Can't promise not to have noxious smells of our own though....Oo er!

Hope the head ok?

Marj1. Oh love, you sound kanckered and sad. ANd a bit lonely maybe? Does DP know how it is for you? Go to the GP, and get referred for some councelling maybe? yOu may decide you don't need it by the time it comes round - you can always pass. Don't think about it, just go. Big cyber hugs and I can hear how you are feeling.
The weight can wait, one thing at a time. Make a trip to the GP the goal for this week anyway.

Bezz - you sound great, you have the captaincy this weekend It's lovely to hear you x.

Eulalia - have fun! Looks great!

Where is JJF?? Bit - not worried - just wondering. Or have I missed it about Friday?

Uh oh...no BB yet today....suspect she's feeling if so, hope you feel better soon.

Captain Bezzy...I like it. Do I get a badge?

Eulalia, outdoor pool sounds like a fab idea, we've also been to the one at our gym this morning, lasted all of 2 minutes because DD screamed and screamed and screamed....people started to look as if i was torturing the poor child, and then giving their advice....she's going through the 'irrational fear' stage. I really hope she grows out of it, I'd hate for her to be one of those little kids that's scared of everything....

DH now finished mowing the lawn, so safe to go back outside.

Slap on that sunscreen girls

B xx

your badge

Wonder if BB has faced a fry up yet?

Love it!

Love your humour too Tree

B x