to be a bit miffed at the 'Mother at the school gates'

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

this weeks Guardian weekend had a 'What I'm really thinking' column written by a mother apperntly disappointed in other mother's lack of attention to their personal appearence. I don't know why it has bothered me so much (maybe it is my hideous hangover after a rare night out but the open disgust she displays in her (anonymous) piece is frankly unsisterly and horrible.

I do not always look glam at pick up - I never wear tracksuits, being of the opinion that they should only be worn if you are doing exercise of some sort. But in the morning particularly I am lucky if I have brushed my hair and not just gathered it in a messy ponytail and I never bother with make up - I save make up for 'going out'. I think pedicures are for people with too much money and time on their hands but as long as feet are relatively clean that is fine.

I see fathers picking up their kids and they are wearing no make up, have messy eyebrows and a distinct lack of stylish clothing but that is ok with our anonymous contributor I am sure. Is it a wife and mothers duty to look nice so they don't show up their children and their husband still wants to sleep with them!? Ick

Sorry I had too get that off my chest - I feel better now (and the Ibuprofen is kicking in as well) Thank you.

I know . It's very strange that a women can only be classed as 'looking like a woman' if she's lining the pockets of the CEO of a cosmetics company, or devoting her precious time to grooming. All women look like women to me. I don't think I've ever mistaken a woman for a man...ever!

I was thinking about my nursery run

Most of the women there are like me (jeans, tshirt, clean, brushed hair, no makeup or if there is it's not noticable). I don't really notice what they have on etc as they all look fine.

Then there is one who has 3 under 5 and always arrives with her hair all done, in a "proper" outfit, with full (noticabele) makeup. I notice her as she stands out from everyone else in that she has obviously put a lot of effort in.

Then there is another woman who dresses "normally" ie jeans etc, and doesn't wear makeup, and possibly doesn't always brush her hair. But she has a lovely figure and is really really pretty. And friendly, and smiley. And she is the one who I always think looks utterly fabulous. Miles better than the woman with teh slap and the outfits.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it

(Not to say that people shouldn't get done up - that's up to them - but that getting done up is not a pre-requisite of looking very attractive)

Well yes Riven. People who look friendly and cheerful and approachable and smiley always look good IMO.

I always think of that bit in The Twits

And, furthermore looking very attractive is not actually every woman's first duty. Any more than it is every man's.

Exactly.

I think I'm one of those women that other women think makes too MUCH effort. I haven't had any negative comments to my face but I get a lot of 'You always look nice' (said in a way that indicates that it's not necessarily a good thing!) when the discussion turns to anything looks/grooming related.

I occasionally go out without make-up but it's rare - there would have to be a reason for it, e.g. I'm decorating and nipped out for more supplies. I feel fine without it but I don't feel great or 'me'.

For me the grooming thing is less about what others think and more a way of expressing myself. As designer (before DS came along), I look at everything through a filter of searching for beauty or interest. I love colours, textures etc and I enjoy thinking about what to wear, what make-up to put on etc.

The same with my house, it's not that I'm OCDish about it although people often say I am - I just enjoy it looking beautiful and I spend a lot of time thinking about new colours/schemes etc.

Yes, it's bloody hard work to make the time to keep myself and the house looking good as well as being a good mother to DS (also now heavily pregnant) but it's what makes me happy and fulfilled!

I'm heavily pregnant NOT DS, by the way!

Riven I am envious wish I was still in pj's.

I also have a forty minute walk to and from the school which is all hill there is no way I am doing that in anything but comfy trainers.

There is a horrid lady at my local school who refuses to talk to me she is always wearing heels, thin tights, pencil skirt and a strap top with a thin jacket and loads of make-up even in winter. I personally think she looked ridiculous dressed like that when it was snowing. I was also disgusted to see her that her 4yo dd school shoes have heels only about a inch but still, her dd also has a pretty jacket that she wears all year that is very thin and was stood at the school gates shivering and actually crying . (disclaimer I know this is not common and there are many mum's at my school who make a effort without subjecting their dc to that sort of thing).

Whatever floats your boat, we have a mix and all muddle along.

I do jeans, t-shirt, hiking boots and ponytail with sunscreen/moisturiser (depending on weather). Others like to be more "dressed".

I look good all the time because I am me, no self respect issues here.

I am surprised this thread has attracted so much comment ... My hungover rant was ott probably in response to a minor weekend article clearly aiming to be controversial.

Interesting that the mysogny of the article which is what really bothered me, has come second in the debate to a pointless discussion over whether the amount of time you spend on your appearance is directly inverse to or in proportion with, your self worth!

Why do we expend all this energy - it is not for men - my dh loves curves and hates high fashion - most men do. We could do with learning from them to be truly liberated perhaps, in this regard?

I like clothes and have always loved dressing up but for me it is a fun but not necessary activity. I have long tangly hair so brushing is a tiresome activity, often my hair looks better unbrushed (honestly). Make up on my Very pale but freckled healthy complexion makes me look pale and drawn - doesn't suit everyone y'see!

I suppose all I am saying is that the way we dress should be about feeling good, having fun and not some bullshit about keeping up with the jones or satisfying some imaginary dresscode - I left uniforms behind me at school and am glad I don't have to wear one now.

Like a few others I believe that the article was written as tongue-in-cheek, but it's such an emotive subject that it will always spark heated debate.
I have absolutely no issue with the mums that dress themselves up, put on the make-up etc, provided that their ultimate accessory is a nice personality - sunny disposition, acceptance of others and approachability. if you have the time or inclination to "make the effort" then crack on, love!
What I cannot stand is the ones who set standards by their own personal, and ultimately flawed, opinions of others and strut like peacocks in front of other "lesser" individuals. Shame, really, life looks so much nicer when you glance beyond your prettily upturned nose.
And, frankly, no amount of Clarins and Jimmy Choos can cover up a truly ugly attitude.
I smile at everyone and judge on the sincerity of the smile - if any - I receive back.

...and.....breathe......

It would take me hours of preparation, Fanjo.
Plus my blood pressure is already set to boil by 8am each morning, I don't really need to add any more pressure to do with my appearance.

Actually, a plastic surgeon and a time machine to undo all the years of sun damage done to my skin in my youth would be the bare minimum prerequisite preparation.

Couldn't care less. But thats becasue in our playground everyone is very similar. there are no tiaras. no one who looks like they need a bath. just normal. some more worky than others. some smarter. some sahm with lovely pedicures. we told one lady that she had a lovely lime green m&s cardy. someone commented on my over the knee leather come-fuck-me-boots (like incommunicado) that i wore to work. no one bothers if i turn up in yesterdays jeans with no make up. becasue we are all the same. aren't you all ?

I think what the author is getting at is that some people give up or rather put themselves last when they become mums. There is a kind of martyrdom tthat some people adopt. People sometimes think that appearance is shallow. It is not.

Now I'm not one to talk- I am a size 16 and therefore slightly overwieght, I have roots and I don't get pedicures, manicures or facials but i do the best I can and I would hate to look like a mess.

I don't wear heels out-just jeans and a nice top but I always make a bit of an effort and wear some jewellery, perfume and make sure that I am presentable.

I think that the author is talking about slobbery tbh. I just don't get why people wouldn't want to look their best anyway. You don't have to be beautiful, skinny or model-like and you don't have to spend a fortune.It's about being presentable.

BTW- I agree that a nice smile beats nice clothes and mabe I DO look a mess to some people.

I also live in the country, garden romp through woods, wear wellies (hunter of course! ) keep a lovely home and do lots of dirty work. I even own a fleece, walking boots and an anorak! I love to dress up especially when I go out as it makes me feel feminine and georgeous.
I am not really concerned what people look like at the school gates tbh but I do look at well dressed women and take note. I would never make friends with someone based on what they look like and I am friends with a lot of mingers! I jest. I do think personality is more important but I do love to dres sup as it's part of my personality.

Mabe because I am single I feel that I have to make an effort or mabe I am still single because in reality I am a shallow bitch with no personality!

It's oftentimes an error to pick up the Guardian. It's for the aspirational middle-class and therefore full of tips on how to appear more middle-class than you were last week (and then how best to smugly gloat about it). Old-school posh-folk get around in their wellington boots and dusty Range Rovers and simply ignore all the new money displaying their poxy designer labels. And they read The Times.

You can't buy class, as they say.

YANBU.