Nightmare kid at DD's school - WWYD

[jendaisy]

DD is 5 and in Year 1. She has been friends with two girls, A & B, since nursery. At nursery the staff noted that when all 3 girls played together there would be arguments, all caused by B trying to run the show and hog A's attention for herself. Wasn't too worried as they were all so little.

Then when DD started school, A did too but B just missed out as she was a few weeks younger. During the reception year DD and A became firm best friends and had lots of play dates etc. They are both very laid back, friendly girls who always play really well together, they can seemingly spend any amount of time together without falling out which I have found is rare for 5 year olds!

Then last Sept B started school and because of the amount of reception kids that year she got put in Year 1 with DD and A, along with half a dozen or so of the eldest reception kids. Since then, B has done nothing but try to jettison A for herself, to the point where it is bloody ridiculous. She forces A to play with her at just about every break (A has told me she does this against her will because otherwise B will kick off and be a drama queen and she is afraid of getting into trouble for upsetting B), and tells DD that it's a game 'just for two people'. Every day after school she is pleading with her mum or A's mum to have a playdate, which does A's mum's head in. She sits next to A whenever she possibly can and according to A strokes her leg in a fawning kind of way...her obsession is a bit weird, she has no interest in making any other friends it would seem.

Because DD is not a pushy kind of girl, and B is bloody forceful and manipulative, she often finds herself shoved out of the trio and whilst she doesn't really get upset by it, from what I gather she spends a lot of playtimes alone as she has lost her best buddy. The daft thing is that despite all this, DD and A both like B and are more than happy to let her play with them, but that is not good enough for B, the only thing that works for her is A's full attention.

I'm good friends with both of the girls mums and A's mum is at her wits end with it all too. B's parents just seem to think that it is 'just B being B', and that all the girls are as bad as each other, but that really isn't the case. She can be downright horrible to DD, for instance after school today she had a play date at A's house and she said to DD 'Ha ha, I'm going to A's house and you're not, you're just going home'. She said this in front of DP and DP had a word with B about that being a pretty mean thing to say. The good thing is it's like water off a duck's back with DD and she is not upset, but I am fuming and have a good mind to have a word with B myself when I collect DD tomorrow.

Sorry, this is probably v boring, but if you are still awake WWYD?

jen jen jen

THEY ARE 5 YEARS OLD!!!! back off, leave them be and try and get involved in something else!

OMG. If I was B's mum I would be furious at your attempt at pyschoanalysis in the park. This happens all the time when in a three. Recently I told ds (5) to tell the child trying to play with ds' best friend all the time that he should play nicely. Job done. They are 5. Wait til they get Facebook accounts and phones - are you going to be confiscating B's laptop?

Me too OrdinarySAHM - I wonder if B's mum realises how she's behaving?

If you want to discuss this (and I can't believe I am) I would say "A" is the issue not "B". No idea why OP keeps subjecting herself to a kid she doesn't like.

Groups of 3 are always trouble.

ack, thewy are girls. and 5yr old.

leave the3m to sort it out.

i am afraid i find your last post quite worrying.
the way you behaved in the park was unnaceptable.
you are beginning to sound a bit unstable. you take zero responsibility for yours, your dd or the A girl, in all of this, and are only focusing on B.
Besides, are you some spineless wimp that gets pushed around ?
what do you mean B turned up on your doorstep. then I would have taken a firm hand and said to B's mother, I'm very sorry but B can't stay. or taken her right back home. before going to the park.how can you let the B mother drop her off, uninvited ?
its pathetic.
and as i said, this wimpy A, oh i don't like it, she always me play with her. refering to B. she is a spineless wimp aswell.
EVER heard of saying NO. Its called parenting. Both you and A need to grow a spine.

...but if it was me, I probably wouldn't say anything to B or B's mother, I would advise DD to play with other people. A needs to learn not to let other people manipulate/control her (maybe her mother should talk to her about that), but I wouldn't say anything to her either. If your DD plays with other people instead, A might realise she is missing out on her friendship and might, in her own time, find the courage to tell B she wants to play with your DD.

At what age does deliberate exclusion by one child to another child then become bullying?
At what age should the parent/s (or whatever aadult person is present and who is witnessing the bad behaviour) then start explaining to their kid/s that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable?

Now that I remember back, I used to be a child A who wanted to play with a boy called C but an older more forceful child B kept forcing me to play with her and exclude Boy C. I was about 5 or 6 at the time and very timid. I wished I could find the strength to say no to child B but I just couldn't do it. I had no confidence. I wish I had talked to someone about it and I wish they had encouraged me and supported me in saying to child B, "I don't want to play with you I want to play with boy C". I wish someone had explained to me that I don't have to let myself be controlled and manipulated.

I continued to be controlled and manipulated by various people throughout childhood.

I wonder if child A could discuss this with a teacher and someone could keep an eye on them at playtime and make sure child B doesn't do anything awful to child A if she finds the courage to tell child B she wants to play with DD.

OK, teacher's view here. I reckon that in the last 25 years (yes, I'm that old) of primary classes, I've had a situation like this in, let's think, ooh, probably 25 of them.
It's girls! Yes, it's annoying, yes, you'd do it differently, but it's life. They've got to learn conflict resolution sooner or later, and work out for themselves who floats their boat and who doesn't. And therefore who to avoid like the plague once they're adults and have an element of choice.
OK, it's hard for you to watch, but you've got to butt out. Sorry, but you have. Grit your teeth, console your DD if and when she gets upset (but interesting that you say she's not particularly bothered. So why are you?) and STEP AWAY!!!!!

I work in a preschool and see this kind of thing all the time with 4 year old girls. They're learning a zillion things at this age and friendship is one of them. Boys in this situation generally shrug and go find someone else to play with. IME the child you call a 'bully' (which I wholeheartedly disgree with) is normally the one with the least confidence and just desperate for a friend and not yet sure how to go about it.

I have heard girls say to their mums at pick up time 'X was mean and wouldn't let me play' when in fact they have played happily together for 99% of the time and there was one tiny incident. Mums will focus on that tiny incident, it's natural to worry.

To call this child a nightmare is just horrible.You cannot interfere like this. They will sort it out for themselves. It's part of growing up.

As others said, your best role is to encourage your daughter to be strong and have LOTS of friends.

Blimey. I feel really sorry for B. You spent 10 MINUTES telling her off when she'd given you a reason for her behaviour?? Put yourself in B's shoes and the reasons for her behaviour becomes clearer. She feels left out.

good grief have to say the op sounds like a bully to me.
the child is 5

I can assure you that I am not unhinged at all, heavily pregnant and slightly frazzled, maybe. Honestly that girl would test the patience of a saint, her own parents find her bloody hard work (they are both lovely people btw and have raised one dd who is now grown up and a great person, though by B's mum's admission she was always the complete opposite to B character wise). Often B's mum has been absolutely mortified by B's behaviour but admits she doesn't know what to do about it. I did relay to B's mum what had happened at the park that day and she fully understood and was fine about it as she knows full well what B is like.

I think that deliberately excluding one person from a situation, and making nasty comments to them IS bullying. If it isn't, what would you call it?

It is reassuring what you say, Clam, from a teacher's perspective. I know what girls are like as obviously I am one myself and did the whole school thing. I suppose the hard thing to cope with here is that DD and A are never mean to B, but they have to suffer B's actions towards them, albeit in different ways. Despite B being nasty to DD a lot of the time DD is still really sweet towards her, e.g. last week she spent a couple of hours making a little package for B with pictures she had drawn and little toys she wanted to give her, then went and put it through her door.

2shoes - she did not give a reason for her behaviour! There was no reason, other than as per usual she cannot bear A to play with anyone else.

I'm with 2shoes, you do sound very nasty towards this child. She has picked up that she is being pushed out (which is what you are trying to achieve) and it's making her behaviour worse. She is a child, she doesn't know better but you should! Read through your posts on here, how would you feel if someone had written this about your child? Calling her a 'bitch', you should be ashamed!

Also what kind of mixed messages are you giving child B? You let your dd put nice pictures thro the door, take her to the park, but secretly loathe her. Hope B's mum recognises her on here and helps her escape this situation.

Let them get on with it. Its all part of learning about friendships - or not as the case may be. Kids will be kids and at 5 years old they need to be learning about relationships with their peers themselves.

"B" is 5, what is your excuse OP? Sounds like you are doing your damnedest to exclude her.

I can't be bothered to read such a lengthy diatribe about 5-year-olds.

What did I miss?

jen - I know what it's like for a child to set your teeth on edge, but she is 5. She has personality issues, she is presumably not a happy thing atm like you DD, but in all likelihood she will work it out. I don't think it is at all fair to call her a bully, or a bitch (and my son has been bullied - but I did at least try to see why that particular child was behaving that way - and they are 9)

Try and separate your own feelings about her from your DDs. Yes, it's not fair, but your DD is not, it seems unduly distressed by this, and you will cross the bridge of what to do if she does become distressed, when you come to it. Or the friendship will break up, or the 5 year old will change.

OP's DD is friends with a younger girl with poor social schools and OP doesn't like it.