to think if you go and stay with someone for a week, then you might at least buy them a bottle of wine as a thank you for putting them up and feeding them?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

I'm not asking to be taken out to dinner for a big fancy schmancy meal or inundated with gifts. I understand that a week's free accommodation in Paris is a cheap holiday for some friends who might not get a holiday otherwise. But you can buy a reasonable bottle of wine for 5 euros here, or a small bunch of nice flowers for about the same - if someone has put you up for a week, fed you, provided beer, wine and gin, and you haven't as much as brought tea bags with you, it is not too much to contribute a bottle of wine to dinner one night, is it?

LMH no they dont have to get anything and yes one should not expect, but as I said its manners and etiquete to show some sort of appreciation to your hosts isnt it not . Some people are just so self absorbed and lack basic manners imo. If I were MrsS I would not be inviting them back

LittleMrsHappy My guests tidy up after themselves, and dont expect dinner on the table etc....

It sounds like your guests are more considerate than the OP's. Having a stream of self-invited guests who expect to be looked after, and their holiday effectively subsidised by the hosts, is just wrong. There has to be more equity and consideration from guests.

Some years ago we stayed with some friends in Australia for a week or so. At first the wife seemed stressed and distant. Later on in the week she said she had been tense because they'd had a number of bad experiences of visitors taking the piss (including ones who they'd had problems getting rid of). She was so pleased that we bought shopping, made meals etc.

I think it's one thing having guests overnight - in which case I would be happy to cater for their every need - and having guests for a week, in which case, I think it's wrong for guests not to contribute in some way.

MrsS had just walked through the door from work and the male guest looked up from his paper and siad whats for dinner then! How rude, would you put up with that LMH, would guests like that be invited back again in your house. I certainly would not have guests like that imo. They are taking advantage of the hosts kindness, nothing wrong with the guests if they are hungry doing things for themselves. I always when i have guests tell them to feel at home and if they are hungry between meals, and i am out or busy to help themselves to food, I would much rather that.

Perhaps some people need some lessons in manners/etiquette as IT IS good manners to bring a gift or in the very least do some things for your host.

Debretts guide to manners/etiquette

There you go LMH as a guest you do have to provide a little gift or two of appreciation and offer to help with things its manners even if you do not expect it, its a sign of politeness.

OP, we experienced this when we lived abroad. People turing up for a free holiday. Some (mostly those who weren't invited) not offering to lift a finger - others (mostly those who were) delightful, polite and helpful around the house. It taught us a lot about people!

Please don't let people take advantage of you. If you haven't invited them, tell them it doesn't suit you and while you'd be happy to see them when they're in the city they can stay somewhere else.

It is polite to get a gift, but their is a difference in expecting that gift, pigglemania, I would not expect anything from my guests!

It might be polite, but it definitely due to expect your guest in bringing you are present!

Goodness me-how rude of them. Even a little note in the post after would have been something.

Entirely agree with you Mrs S - luckily, we haven't had the same, as those who stay here tend to offer to bring things (teabags, squash, marmite etc) or in my Mum's case will pay for a Chinese.

When we stayed with friends who had a dip job in Bulgaria, we luckily didn't have to go through customs as ds's grip was full of Typhoo T bags and various other things; and we took Ribena and Marmite into Canada for friends who had an RN exchange job there.

It is bloody rude to turn up without anything, or without helping out if you can't afford anything to take with you. To do otherwise is to show a total lack of appreciation for the time and effort your hosts are putting in and the inconvenience that it can be having guests during a working week.

ive been thinking about this thread since i saw it last night, and the wonder is, not the rude people, they are just rude, but why you let them get away with it?
i once had a lady stay with me forever it seemed like, and she wanted me to slave, fortunately she went away eventually. six months later, dh asked if she could stay for two weeks. she had a definite flight back home in two weeks. with trepidation, i agreed. cooked massive meal for her first day she came, as thought it polite, that evening, i was stressing that she would continue as she had six months previouysly, so, came dodwnstairs, she was parked in front of telly, and told her that i wanted her to feel as welcome as if this was her house. so if she felt like eating something, to just cook it, and feed me too, if something was messy, just clean it up, not wait for the cleaner to come. etc etc. ended up being a wonderful two weeks, and i was actually sorry to see her go. now, whenever guests come, i will do big cook up, but then, just encourage them to help me with the cleaning up etc, and show them where the kettle is.
works well.

Ok LMH but as i said that they were also rude in their attitude and mannerisms, the last time that they would be invited then! And op be firm if they want to come again say no!

OK - have told friend that if they are coming to Paris in June, a) it will be nice to see them, but we are away for the second half of the month and b) we won't be able to put them up at all, but happy to meet up with them for a drink.

That's a good response MrsS

If I was coming to stay I would bring English chocs and buy the wine for the week on the way to your apartment. I'd then take my hosts out for dinner every night or cook something nice (I prefer going out while on holiday).

Can't believe some people

Actually, I am just waiting for her to text back, saying "oh that's OK, we will house sit for you while you are away..."

No you fucking won't.

LittleMrsHappy, I can't believe you think the OP lacks manners for running around after her guests for a week (and ultimately being a bit miffed that they gave no indication of appreciating it) - and that the guests weren't rude but not giving a single indication of thanks. Do you live in some sort of bizarro upside world?

You seem so into manners, and yet can't seem to comprehend that the wheels of social interaction are oiled by polite, considerate and gracious behaviour - by host and guest. Both have obligations in my book, and when I'm lucky enough to be a guest in someone's home, I certainly know what mine are.

You've fully admitted that you're lucky in that your guests are always considerate. How would you feel after several visits from the sort described by the OP? Honestly, now? And I'm not talking about family where the expectation is different, but free-loading acquaintances who take, take, take, expect, expect, expect...

YANBU cheeky fuckers.

I take wine everywhere

I have a regular stream of guests (similar situation - well located apartment, desirable area). Because of where I live some have stayed weekdays for a couple of months at a time.

Most are fab - buy wine/ flowers, strip bed when they leave, pick up groceries etc. when asked. One even paid the cleaner.

There have been a few who don't "play the game" and tbh I'm not v. tolerant and they don't get to come back.

I particularly didn't appreciate one of my friends asking me to pay him back for the basic groceries I'd asked him to buy (bread, milk, paracetemol, tissues) when I was ill in bed after he had been staying with me (and not contributing anything) for 2 months!

Liking your response to mooch friend coming in June, MrsS.

That's the way to do it!

5dollorshakes what on earth are you talking about , my posts have not indicated that I though the OP was bad mannered in the slightest, I have disagreed with her on the expectation of a gift, as I said in a comment a previous poster asked me, manners cost nothing, she has used her manners towards her guests and expected a gift in return, that is rude within itself! she expected too much from her guests, due to the way they treated her home, due to her expectation from them, Yes they were rude, ill mannered and just rude to the OP's standards, but what did the OP want from them, when their behaviour to her horrid to her standards for the whole duration of the stay!

Why on earth did she allow the behaviour to continue

LittleMrsHappy - There are certain social graces that people expect between one another. A host should not have to ask a guest to help out/provide a gift whatever. It puts both parties in an awkward situation and both parties should understand basic etiquette. It seems that Mrs.S did have good manners and understand common courtesy but the guests did not. Her expecting something is certainly NOT rude.

This is all too common in society today that people are not taught basic manners and do not understand social graces, it is a pity really.

"This is all too common in society today that people are not taught basic manners and do not understand social graces, it is a pity really".

Yes, it is, but social graces are a different matter in concerning class, basic etiquette is a must in a situation, BUT It is rude in expecting a gift as a gesture of their appreciation.

We can see from here I believe that it is a society of gift grabbers, when a simple Thankyou is more than adequate, but clearly it is not, society must have a cheap bottle of plonk, or some priceless tat, or is is classed as bad manner in not doing this "gift gesture"

You might not think it is rude but I certainly DO! as do most of my circle, its rude!

A Thankyou is more than sufficient, I honestly cant believe people want a gift now, its absurd for me and my circle.

Its not really a gift, if your expecting it now, is it!

But then Im not materialistic, I believe manners vocally is more than a piece of tat!

YANBU
I feel fully justified in replying to this post as I am still bursting with upset about my situation - would be interested to hear what you guys think...

To explain,

We have old friends (10 yrs plus) they moved abroad several years ago and DS1 and their son were very close - for the next few years I took him to stay with them for a week.
This is what I did:
A big supermarket shop when we got there to fill their cupboards so we could help ourselves. (This often included washing powder etc..) Also bought beer, wine, gin, and fizzy drinks for the kids (all expensive there) This shop never cost me less than 100 Euro.

We ate out several times each holiday - I always paid my share and at least once bought the whole meal as a thanks for having us.

Took items out to them that they needed and always took their son a fairly expensive present (Playstation game etc)

I cleaned up after us and often did a pile of ironing as I like it and my friend hates it.

It was enough for us that we were seeing our dear friends that we missed and we appreciated them having us and didn't want them to ever talk about us not paying our way.

We always had a lovely time,

Fast forward to today.

Their son decided to come back to UK to college. They arranged for him to stay with her sister who sorted him out with a PT job and charged him board.
He didn't like it there as it was isolated and asked to come and stay with us.
It meant him sharing a room with DS1 but we said yes.
We redecorated the room - bought him a new bed a chest of drawers and made him extremely welcome.
He stayed 8 months.
He never gave us a penny.
Neither did his parents.

His mum came over at one point and stayed in DS2 room for 5 weeks - he slept on our floor.
She made us 1 meal.

He has been gone now for over a year and we are still geting letters from people chasing him for money. I got him 2 jobs - he is now on his 3rd. He is a spoilt lazy little git and as my son is still his friend we still see him.

I went over on my own to see his parents while he was here - I still paid for everything!!! I thought they might send me home with some money for him but nothing - not even mentioned!

I'm sorry this post is so long but I really love his mum but I will never feel the same way about them

Note my nickname.
I have learnt my lesson!!!

LittleMrsHappy - Social Graces have nothing to do with class. Social graces are skills used to interact politely in social situations. They include manners, etiquette (the specific accepted rules within a culture for the application of universal manners), deportment and fashion. This would include how to behave when a house guest.

Bringing a gift is not rude, you are sadly mistaken. I can refer you to any number of publications on good manners/etiquette and they ALL state that bringing a gift is proper and correct. Furthermore in this day and age there are many resources on the internet that provide this information. See my post above with the Debrett's guide to Etiquette. Debrett's has been providing guides on etiquette since the early 1900's so this is not something new. There are many, many others as well that will tell you the same.

what a prize mug IamaMug! The fact it went on for years and years without you saying anything, well, did your health suffer?

Some people are life's takers, others give. The fact that your dear friends used you so outrageously is because quite clearly you value the friendship with them far more highly than they do yours.

You were used and abused and yet still love them, golly. That's not friendship!

No LMH but the way in which those guests were acting was very rude, and even though I would not expect a gift and just grit my teeth until they leave, they would not be getting a return invite. Ok gift aside, it is nice for guests to offer to help, even if its declined by the host and to be as little burden on their host as possible. As MrsS stated in one of her posts, she had just come home from work, and the male guest looked up from his paper and said 'whats for dinner then', imo how rude and inconsiderate, that kind of guest would not get a return invite.