to think I would be better off being a single parent?

[pinkypanther]

DC1 is three weeks old (born by emergency caesarian section after becoming distressed during delivery and needed to spend four days in special care as a result)

DH took one week's paternity leave (all but one day of which DC1 and I were in hospital for) then went back to the office. He works long hours in a high pressure job and if I'm lucky he might be home by 8ish - frequently it is later (one night last week it was 10pm). As a result he does very little with the baby - maybe one evening feed and one nappy change. He doesn't help at all with anything before he goes to work and doesn't lift a finger around the house.

I am struggling as DC1 doesn't sleep much and just wants to feed all the time. Because of the section I can't drive for another three weeks and I feel totally trapped.

AIBU to think that I would be better off just leaving and going to stay with my mum for an extended period? At least then I would get some help and support...

How is it out of context, it was the first reply on the thread. You said that she was being unreasonable, and that he coudn't be expected to help her.

I also don't know why you assume the OPs DH is earning oodles of cash. High pressure and long hours does not necessarily = able to afford a cleaner.

Spero, I don't agree with the 'fair game' attitude on AIBU e.g. you asked for it, so suck it up. Why is the internet reasonably seen to be immune from considerations of respect and politeness? Disagreeing with someone is very different to casting aspersions on their ability to parent.

In terms of what you say about the warning/paternalism, fair enough. Doesn't make it right that Violethill is, here, effectively seeking entertainment value from someone else's misery.

It strikes me that it is wrong to argue that it is acceptable to be nasty online just because it is a fact of life that nastiness thrives in this anonymous environment. Much is made of MNers as educated, middle class, liberal etc. Shouldn't we be able to share opinions without this? Isn't there a risk that finding this acceptable/'fair game' will, over time, work to erode some of our human empathy and communication back in the real world?

Oh FGS!!!!

I do wonder what you mean by that, violethill. I guess I'm supposed to infer that you think my argument is a bit OTT. However, I'm going to stand by the fact that telling a new mum that she's never going to be able to cope with another child because she is having a bit of a bad time three weeks after giving birth is also a bit OTT. And I wonder why you post it, and what pleasure you get from it, and how that might correspond to your interaction with other human beings in the real world.

Ignore the hair shirt brigade OP. You are 3 weeks post partum, you are knackered, emotional and have been hit sideways by the reality and enormity of caring for a new baby yes ? Not making ANY excuses for your DH at all but him throwing himself into his work is not THAT unusual - he too is probably a bit bewildered by the reality of how much time, energy and effort it takes to function with a new life. You've had a crappy time with your labour and delivery - the worry of a baby in SCBU is awful. Give BOTH of you a break - maybe write down how you are felling if you can - I couldn't talk to DH for weeks without dissolving into tears/hysterics/raging

The constant feeding will ease off a little, baby will start to sleep a bit more and YOU will feel better physically. But right now, whilst all 3 of these things are very much at the fore, you need to forget about the housework (easier said than done if you are a neat freak like me) but the dust WILL wait.

Is you DH a practical kind of guy ? Would he respond better to a list of things you need him to do ? My DH is great if I ask him to do stuff but lacks the initiative to know that the washing will need to be PUT into the machine ?

Tey and make him understand how you feel - maybe a break with your mum for a few days might be the best way forward - giving you some help physically and hammering the message home to him that things ARE different now, and whilst cheery oak floor will be lovely, right now, the priority is keeping both of your heads above water as you adjust.

Very un mumsnetty hugs OP

Do you really wonder all that?

Maybe you're over-thinking it all then!

Mrsbean, yes you are being a little OTT.

To some exgtent, yes, I think if you CHOSE to post on a site which explicitly invites comment on one's reasonableness or otherwise and you chose to make a rather provocative comment, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth for all those who have been through similar situations without any help or backup.... then yes, you might get a few viperish responses and yes, you've just got to suck it up.

I quite agree that people should try not to be excessively rude - a good rule of thumb is not to type anything you wouldn't say to their face and I try to adhere to that although I might not always achieve it.

but to suggest sites like these are eroding our essential humanity is way ott. Sites like this are a reflection of life, some good, some bad, some ugly.

I hope the op will feel she has had some useful responses. If she takes anything from it I hope it will be to understand that however lonely, scared and unsupported she feels right now, it would be a lot worse on her own, so she needs to take some time out, get some rest and help THEN start considering her single parent wannabe status...

Absolutely agree about the housework. Neither of you need to do it. Apart from a very few essentials like sticking a wash on, or heating up a quick dinner.

Dusting, hoovering etc - no one will die if they arent done for 6 weeks. there are more important things to do, like enjoying the baby and earning a living.

I'm actually doing a bit of devil's advocate thing here..

I agree 100% with your rule of thumb and I don't adhere to it 100% myself: I doubt I would monologue quite so effectively to violethill in real life.

However, I was amazed at how affected I was by anonymous comments online when I was in the OPs situation, and I have seen how affected young people I work with have been by internet bullying. I do wonder if it blurs the lines of what it is acceptable to say to another person (and I've a particular interest in this as the study of human communication is my bread and butter). I don't think it's a great idea to get your kicks out of being harsh to people who appear very distressed. If it's an academic subject or someone is posting about something fairly frivolous, debate-provoking or inconsequential, bring it on. But it strikesme that most people on here are educated enough to read subtext too... and the subtext I am getting from this OP is of someone feeling overwhelmed and isolated and I don't think it's good for anyone to rub their hands in glee and become overly hyperbolic at that person's expense.

Good post spero

In answer to your question violethill, I do wonder all of this. And a lot more. I don't believe in 'overthinking': you think what you think and if you have a brain, you might as well use it. In general, I'm fascinated about what provokes one person to launch a written assault on an anonymous stranger and another to give 'unmumsnetty hugs' based on the same details. I'm fascinated in what provokes me to post too! It's all about our baggage of course.. the ultimate in projection.. which is why you get this endless, 'but this is what it was like for ME' invalidation of other people's experience.

The problem is that one can easily have an OP who is vulnerable who sits miles from you crying their eyes out because of what has been communicated. No one thinks too much about that.. and it disturbs me. I think it's not a good thing for human beings.

Hi pinkypanther,

I understand partially how you must be feeling, as my dp had to go back to his business after only a week's leave when dd was born. He is out of the house from 9.30am to 9.30pm six days a week. He comes home for lunch, but only for an hour or so, and after about 30 mins or so together dd goes for her nap after lunch.

We both live in a different country from our families so it's just us. I didn't even have a cs but it was sooo hard! I desperately wished I could click my fingers and be at my mum's so many times when dd was a little baby. I got really down and ended up with pnd, which lasted until dd was 8 months old or so.

As others have said, go to your mum's for a while or get her to come to you. IMO your dh should be doing something around the house. And you say you have to clear up after him? Well if he's really messy he needs to sort himself out, and if you have really high standards, you need to lower them for your own mental health. Don't worry about housework, cooking and so on if you can't manage it. Get a cleaner if you can.

I understand what some have said about your dp maybe not realising his life has changed completely yet, whereas you have no choice as you've been plunged right into it! It helped me to keep asking dp to do specific things, asking politely and without nagging or huffing. I found that part of the problem was that I would just get on with things as I knew in my head what needed done, and then I'd end up frazzled. All I needed to do was say "dp, could you take out the rubbish/unload the dishwasher/change dd's nappy please?" And so on.. Ok, so he should have asked what needed done, or just noticed himself, rather than going off outside to drink his coffee and have a fag, but I decided to stop being hormonal and resentful and just kept asking for what I needed.

No-one is going to do it for you!!!!

For example on Sundays I would just say "could you look after dd for a while and I'm going for a bath/a walk/a cuppa and cake in my room?" Rather than waiting for him to offer and getting resentful.

After a few months and a lot of rages from both of us about "never having time for myself" and quite a few fights where I blamed him for not doing enough and him complaining about me asking him to do too much in the house, and we finally broke the pain barrier and got used to being parents! He started to do more bits around the house unprompted and we both complained a lot less.

So anyway sorry to ramble, but you the summary is you have to spell out what you need to your dh. Sounds like he needs to do a bit of work at home every day, within reason, spend some nice time together as a family on weekends going for a walk and a coffee and cake or whatever, and also a few hours alone for each of you doing something nice every Sunday or whenever.

Keep asking for what you need and be kind to yourself, it's so hard having your first baby!

mrsbean, we probably agree. But just as you (rightly) come down hard on the tosspot inadequates who use sites like these to bully other people, the op also has to take responsibility for the 'sub text' of her post. It will be insulting for most single parents to hear their status allied to that of a financially supported mother whose likely shell shocked partner isn't picking up much of the slack at the moment.

I'm afraid when I read posts like this 'my dh doesn't get back until 8pm!' my inner monologue is something like 'aw poor fucking diddums'.

I nearly fell down the stairs last night at 8pm. If I'd broken my neck and killed myself, probably no one would have noticed until Monday morning when I didn't show up for work. Luckily my dd is now old enough to call 999. This is not round one of competitive suffering, but an attempt to give the op some perspective.

and btw I don't think that letting the housework go completely to hell is necessarily a good idea. You will generally feel more miserable and depressed living in a tip. It doesn't have to be house beautiful but it is usually possible to find an hour a day to keep everywhere from sliding into choas.

I do agree Mrs Bean. Our words don't go out into the ether, a vacuum, they are received by someone at the other end and can have as much (if not more) impact than someone we know saying it. If someone we know says it you can read their body language etc.

I also agree that saying how great it was for 'us' will not help the OP. I did post earlier saying that I thought she was being unreasonable to leave her husband, which I stand by. BUT I also think that she is feeling horribly vulnerable and doesn't need her posts picking apart, or to be made to feel unusual or unworthy.

I acknowledge that choice of words in title may not have been the best, but I think was all know that she was being hyperbolic to a degree and trying to state that sometimes she feels completely alone. It read to me as a cry for some support, she needs it so badly she is considering going to stay with her mum for a prolongued time. That has to say something! I don't think jumping on the semantics and getting hurt because single mothers have it harder is helping anyone, we;re all adult enough (and hopefully empathetic/intelligent enough) to know what she means. So let's stick to that.

I get where you're coming from Spero.

I guess your reaction and mine both prove something about internet communication. You come at this topic from your own perspective as a single mum, I come at it from the perspective of having been a total fruit loop as a new mum, completely incapable of controlling my subtext (sounds like an unruly dog!)

Mrsbean - you are clearly trying to provoke some sort of reaction with your OTT choice of language and cod psychology. Oh and for someone who cried for 24 hours at the horrible time you had at the hands of MNers, you sure aren't afraid to dish out the insults yourself - what was it, bovine smugness?! It's ok, I just laughed at you, but you do need to be careful, because you could upset other more sensitive souls.

I think most posters took into account the context. The OP posted on AIBU. A section which has a disclaimer at the top saying 'Be prepared for people to disagree with you'.

I also stand by my position, which is that people respond in the way they genuinely think is right. If I thought the OP was in a situation where she was being seriously badly treated, I would advise her to get out. But she isn't. She's going through something which sounds entirely normal, albeit exhausting and hard work (for both parents!) and sometimes, on here, as in real life, the most helpful advice people can be given is 'Look come on, you really haven't got it that bad, this is all normal stuff'. Along with 'talk to your husband', 'Don't let this build up into a destructive resentment' and 'FGS leave the hoovering - it doesn't need doing by either of you!'

Anyway - the OP hasn't been around all day, so hopefully she's now out with her DH or getting a well deserved break!

mrsbean, and this is what makes sites like this so wonderful, as well as so dangerous. I think the two go hand in hand. You are not going to get the measured and helpful responses without the loonies.

But you can't pretend you don't know that when you post. I'm not saying the op was, but she has invited our opinions.

I'm not sure how much further boards like this could be policed without stripping themn of everything that makes them worthwhile.

But hopefully your comments have made some people think. Sometimes it is difficult finding your style and you (people in general I mean) sometimes don't realise just how harsh something can read in type without any nuance or explanation of that poster's back story.

You are quite right I post from the perspective of a single parent, and I hope to use that perspective to help partnered parents think very carefully before they decide to go it alone.

Your baby is 3 weeks old it's hard.

My dh booked himself to work double bloody shifts after birth of ds. I was on my own post c-section unable to drive etc - very hard - but it passed.

Not great timing from dh but ordinarily it would have been fine - but with newborn very hard - it's always hard with a newborn.

I felt like you - but was full of hormones, full of aftershock of baby being in distress - the emergency csection(so emergency I have a very wonky scar).

Give it time - you're in the throws of new motherhood.

Enjoy your child - and ensure that your dp pulls his weight from now on in.

I think men have very little idea how hard it is.

"If my DH was at home having had abdominal surgery I would cook for him and so on. i just don't understand why you wouldn't look after your OH in this situaiton."

isn't it a bit difficult cook dinner while you're at work?

" You come at this topic from your own perspective as a single mum, I come at it from the perspective of having been a total fruit loop as a new mum, completely incapable of controlling my subtext (sounds like an unruly dog!)"

haha - beat you there - I'm a single mum and was a total wreck after each of my DS's births.

And I agree with whoever it was said that on here, just like in RL you deal a healthy dose of realism along side the hugs and sympathy.

I had both on my threads 2yrs ago when I was at my lowest, often, at the time some of the reality comments felt horrible, but looking back at them (even a matter of hours, or days after they'd been written) I NEEDED those comments as wll as the sympathy.

Having a bit of a tough time now, and I've had sympathy and healthy realism on my threads.

LOL, oh you lot.

I go to have a lie down and look what happens. Now I have lost the thread of the thread and can't be arsed jumping back in.

No YANBU yes you would be better off as a single parent.

Good post Toccata.

I also wonder what jobs these people have where they would be able to take weeks off to cook for their partner if the partner had abdominal surgery! Lucky them! Although in all honesty, having had a CSection myself, cooking is one thing you can do perfectly well pretty soon afterwards. The worst thing after surgery is to lie in bed - that's why the nurses get you mobile within about 24 hours. The only real no no's are heavy stuff - I wouldn't have done hoovering or putting out rubbish, but cooking, laundry etc are fine.

I still think that when you repond to what someone writes or says, context is everything.

As a teacher, when I get teenagers coming to me in a stress because they're behind with their coursework, I know which ones need some TLC, a bit of metaphorical stroking, and sympathy - I know whether they're anxious, or having a hard wtime at home. And equally, that would be the worst response for some teenagers. What they need is a good kick up the arse (metaphorical of course!), they need to be told, 'Come on pull yourself together, you're out of order here'.

If you choose to post on a public forum, you do it in the knowledge that you're putting yourself out there among thousands of people who don't know you. If you want a response from someone who does know you, talk to someone in real life.

And if you choose to post on AIBU, then expect to be told by some people that you are.

And if you post on AIBU with a provocative title, comparing yourself to people who might have ALL your problems PLUS nobody working their arse off to support you, then expect to get a bit of realism!

I agree totally Spero, and I wouldn't really want them policed. Just throwing some thoughts into the mix. I have to say when I first posted here, my experience of posting online was confined to a particular Irish forum where things are generally quite measured and pleasant. Sometimes irritatingly so. I often wonder if this is because Ireland is a small country and people frequently 'recognise' anonymous posters from a few details pieced together (making it much less anonymous in real terms.)

For example, I made a comment on that forum about childminders in my area (here in the UK) taking their little charges to playgroup and having one eye on their cup of tea and one on the child. Cue mass hurt and outrage at my blanket categorisation of all childminders. Cue me apologising and grovelling and using all sorts of 'but some of my best friends are childminders' excuses. Now that I am more comfortable on MN, if that happened here, I would probably tell them to get stuffed. Just goes to show the courage a bit of anonymity brings.

So, Violethill, truthfully I am not trying to get any reaction from you with this argument specifically at all. It's just a nice little debate to while away a Saturday afternoon. But your post begs the question: why do you post if not to get a reaction? Why would any of us? I'm just asking you, what particular reaction are you trying to provoke? It always goes both ways, no cod psychology about that. So when I talk about us bringing our baggage, we all do, including you. You are getting something out of this discussion or you wouldn't keep going with it, scoffery aside.

OP got some slightly patronising replies but then again the title of her OP was quite patronising itself.

My dh travels offen abroad (for work, not for fun) and i'm fed up of comments that it is like being a single mother. It is not. It is a lot harder for single mothers for million reasons.

Also, many of us have mums abroad, i would kill to have my mum for a week! I know people keep talking about the 'old good days with family support' but you forget that in those 'good old days' you had to hand wash the clothes and there was not Ocando.
I prefer to be with no family and a dh who works all day but in a modern house, pressing the button of the dishwaser.

Having a newborn is not easy-but who said it was? And working long days isn't easy either...

Anyway OP will not read, seems like she left the thread

T&F no, I would look after him while I was not at work.

I would not slump on the sofa picking my nose and leave him to struggle on with all the cooking cleaning and childcare when he had just come out of hospital.

I assume you are being deliberately obtuse.