Bit miffed why my dd 2.11 is being labled with having SN when i know full well that she is not (long post sorry)

[pigletmania]

I took my dd 2.11 to pre school today, I asked to have a little chat with the manager about how my dd is getting on as i have had no feedback from them, and last time she was there she refused to have her nappy changed and bit and scratched staff (she does not seem to like small dark spaces such as toilets), dd is not violent or aggressive so this was totally out of character. The manager said that if dd was staying on after 3 she would be refered to SENCO as they were concerned that she was not following a routine, and not sitting still at story time or doing as she was asked, wtf, show me a young child that does. Any young child would rather play with the colourful toys or paints on display than sit listening to a story. DD will be going to the nursery attached to the local primary when she turns 3 in March.

DD is very babyish for her age, and her speech is not as fluent as it could be and she is not yet potty trained, but the HV and others have said that it will come when she is ready. She is only at pre school for 4 hours a week, so they do not know how she is really like, at home she is different. DD can say all her alphabet, recognise numbers one to 10, basic colours and shapes and knows her nursery rhymes, and can speak if she wants to. DD is very stubbon and stong minded and not a performer, will do it when she wants in her own time. I explained this to the manager and she was surprised as dd is not like that in pre school. Why are they so quick to lable a child espcially one so young? The manager said also that they have an Early years curriculum, and they have to tick off certain criteria, my goodness not all children are the same and will be at the same stage.

I have studied psychology/child psych to Masteres level so know that each child is different and develops in different ways, they are not robots all developing at the same time, it is a little early imo to make a special needs assumption, i am just a bit upset and sad about this as i know that dd is a late developer like i was and does not have SN. Fair enough once she reaches school age than yes, but at the moment she is still developing and learning, and may catch up soon enough especially once she starts nursery school full time. As the HV has told me a month is an awful long time for a child, so just give it time not jump to conclusions.

I have noticed this week that dd speech is getting so much better now so i can see improvement day by day.

v briefly but wanted to answer.

No you absolutely ANBU.

4 hours! Good grief.

You are informed, but relaxed. You know what's what.

Just don't go there if you don't like how they look after the children.

Have you actually considered the things they have raised? It is easy to not see issues or to take it as a personal slight.

From the limited contact I have had with people whose children have SN, it is hard to get the support you need - so the sooner the better really.

Fortunate that your dd is leaving that preschool soon. How long has she been there?

Everything they described sounds perfectly within the normal range for a 2yo.

In your position, I would be talking to her nursery school, asking for a meeting with the manager and the keyworker who would be assigned to her. They are going to be told by the preschool that your dd may have SN, it sounds like she is not going to be presented very well, and it seems to me to be important that they see your dd for who she really is. Will they do a home visit? JMany nurseries do, and if not then perhaps you ought to request one.

Thanks onebatmother, i have dyslexia but i know that at 2.11 at the moment it is abit too early. Once she starts school and the differences are apparent than yes but she is only still young and learning, imo they expect too much too young. Testing is starting early and earlier cant they let toddlers be toddlers. DD seems much more advanced than i ever was (according to my mum). My BIL MIL saw dd at christmas, she was an SN teacher (retired) and she said that she was fine absolutely fine nothing to worry at all.

Have you had her hearing tested?

Yes she is leaving in 3 weeks, once she starts nursery school and will be there full time so if there are any concerns they will discuss them with me. At the mnoment I am not concerned and nor is dh as she is only young and still developing. For me its too early to know.

pretty candles she is very able to hear me, I inititally thought that but when i asked dd questions she responded to them and responds to me and dh and whoever fine. She loves listening to nursery rhymes and repeating them

I don't like the labels they like to slap on children either. I was dubious of telling DD1s school that I thought she may have OCD because I didn't want them to start singling her out as 'different'. When I did have to tell them, the first thing the teacher said was 'Oh, I wonder if she has autism too as that usually goes with OCD'

TBH I would be looking for another nursery if that's the way they're thinking about your DD, she's only 3 bless her, the expectations they seem to have of her are so high it's surprising they are able to function with so many children!

Yes thank goodness the new nursery are going to do a home visit to see dd in her environment as is standard practice. We went for a parents meeting with the teachers at her new nursery and were so impressed with the quality of the teachers and facilities in comparison with her current pre school. We know that the teachers will really be able to help dd get out of her shell and to develop her skills

Pigletmania, you know your child does not have an SN. Do not make it into a big thing in your head in order to justify your view point. You know your child. They don't. Ignore them or you will end up driving yourself mad worrying about some fictitious problem.

Thanks Agent she is not yet 3 only two atm, i just dont want her be labled so young when i know she is capable of so much given the time and effort. This pre school that she goes to have a very high staff turnover, the staff do not have the time to give one to one to the children so dont have time to get to know them, it can be rushed chaotic and not very organised. Its in a rented community centre so the facilities are not as good as the new one she is going to. I just dont think that the environment brings out the best in dd.

YANBU to be upset but I don't see any evidence of her being 'labelled' as having any SEN. Perhaps it's an over zealous, newly qualified memeber of staff picking up on things which aren't really issues at all ? It will be a non issue if she is moving and tbh, if it's as chaotic as you describe, I'd probably be looking at alternatives. If the environment is causing her to behave way out of character with the biting and scratching, then I wouldn't be happy to send her tbh

I knew a child who was discovered to be almost totally deaf at about 3yo, which shocked his parents, who thought he could hear perfectly well and that the hearing test was a waste of time. Apparently he was a very proficient lip-reader.

Or perhaps it is simply that your dd is currently in an environment that does not encourage her to flower, but is seen by the staff as a preparation for the seriousness of school. A shame.

That doesn't sound like a very nice place piglet, are there any others in your area? You'd think they'd have to have some kind of checks on they way they run the place, chaotic and disorganised are not two descriptions I'd like on a nursery I used.

I'd also be asking why your DD reacted to having her nappy changed like that, WTF were they doing with her to get her up into a state like that?? You'd hope they'd have calmed her down before she got to that point.

Your DD isn't to blame in any of this, she's only tiny, it's the nursery staff who should be taking responsiblility.

Yes Sassy, you go in the morning it is just chaotic, and the staff dont seem to care. Its not very organised and i really look forward to her starting this new nursery in a few weeks. I knwo that it will be a totally different experience. When we go past it she points and says 'going there when i am 3', and i want to go i want to go.

Thanks Agent she is moving onto a differnt one in a few weeks, i just have visions of them trying to wretle dd into the loo to change her nappy. Just feel so for dd. Once she starts school and she is showing difficulties than i would do all i can to help her and not suffer like i did but at the moment no. I just want to wait and see atm.

Would just like to point out even it does turn out that she have SN its not such a terrible thing.

Although mums do know best when it comes to their own child.

I know but dont want a lable so young, as others have said i know dd and what she is capable of as i am around her for most of the day/night.

I have dyslexia, dyspraxia and sever eczema myself . At this stage i want to see how she gets on at the school nursery and just wait and see for a little bit.

Blimey, when ds2 changed nursery at age 3 he wasn't doing any of those sitting still and listening things. His old (lovely) nursery accepted that he was a little boy and were patient with him/let him do what he wanted to do. His new nursery (lovely in its own special way ) sent him to the naughty step most days until he fitted in with their idea of acceptable behaviour. He has always been a boy who likes to please, so he learnt quickly what they expected of him.

Your dd sounds lovely, and fine. However, I would expect that the nursery may talk to the preschool, so if I were you I would 'accept' any additional attention your dd might get at nursery and be prepared to explain to nursery what your dd is like, as they might not get the same 'story' from preschool.

Might be worthwhile talking to staff to establish if biting/scratching was an isolated incident - so you know, and to remind them that if they mention it in any transition info for nursery, to say that it was out of character?

Thanks bosch, yes the new nursery will do a home visit so that we can talk to dd and they can see her at home. Yes it was an isolated incident, i did talk to them. Yes the two nurserys will communicate to each other and will just see how it goes.

The problem I have with these labels are the assumptions of non medical staff that always accompany them. Yes, some children do need, and thrive with extra help, but there are so many things you can be diagnosed with, and everyones a bloody expert!

What I didn't want for my DD is for her teachers to act differently with her because they thought there was something medically wrong with her, which was proved right when I told them, and they even added their own uninformed medical opinions grrr

I totally agree Agent, I want her treated like everybody else,

In my experience (with friends children), school has been happy to consider 'diagnoses' but then move on when child proved not to have whatever was suspected.

preschool will want to be able to say that all their children are perfect. Will also not want to 'miss' anything. The fact that your dd may (stress MAY) not be meeting developmental goals is something they will want to address/warn of. She may go on to meet those goals regardless of any intervention. Doesn't change the fact that it's spectacularly worrying/annoying when preschool warn you of their fears. It's the goal orientated culture of much of public sector, blunt but useful on the basis of a town/city, but not very sensitive when applied to each child.